“The main thing I liked about Islam was the respect for women” PLAYBOY MODEL REVERTED


Dear 007:
Either spiritual or social roles in general tend to dismiss women compared with men. People tend to have expectations or conditions where it is "okay" for men to impose authority, speak out of turn, and act autonomously where others will follow their lead; while women are expected to wait their turn and not correct or interrupt others, etc. I even had incidents happen over the past year, repeatedly, where given a conflict, the people involved tended toward believing and giving more credibility to the men (who were lying and bullying) rather than the women who were stuck defending themselves against injustice with no support.

This is made worse by religious or political trends toward "bullying" or "retribution." So given the patterns people already tend toward, such contexts just bring them out even more.

The cultural traditions and laws cited are focused on retribution, so that leads to injustice, abuse and violence in any case. Govt or law based on "retributive justice," rather than restorative justice, is the most telling factor that predicts authority will be abused. Someone has to administer the law and judgment, a social role most commonly vested in men. Such a system of retributive/punitive laws too easily invites men to take power and then abuse it.

The sexism is a factor, and these additional cultural conditions make it worse.
But those factors of sexism and bullying are common problems across the board, with both religious and political groups competing for pecking order dominance. They are just more visible and extreme in these cases. But certain not unique to the contexts and cases cited.
 
How is it that Islam, written as a religion over 1500 years after Hebrew religion, and 600 years after Christianity, claim that they are an ancient religion, and from Abraham?

Islam includes and incorporates the Jewish Torah and Christian Scriptures along with the Muslim Quran. So this is supposed to be the final message fulfilling the whole lineage, ithe true interpretation of all of these.

Not to worry, my friend Mustafaa with CAIR explained that true Islam would not push to indoctrinate anyone to change religions anyway. It is a teaching from Mohammad that there is "no compulsion in religion." So anyone doing that, compelling or even punishing people religiously, is NOT practicing true to Islam. He agrees that many Muslims may need reform, as opposed to trying to reform Islam which is supposed to be final and complete as given.
 
Abraham founded the first monotheistic religion which was Judaism.

Jesus brought the same message to the people who were later known as Christians.

Islam just continues that same tradition and teaching through Muhammad.

No he didnt'. You're a gotdamn liar.

How did Abraham found Islam and Muhammed supposedly wrote the entire book in a cave?
 
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Abraham founded the first monotheistic religion which was Judaism.

Jesus brought the same message to the people who were later known as Christians.

Islam just continues that same tradition and teaching through Muhammad.

No he didnt'. You're a gotdamn liar.

How did Abraham found Islam and Muhammed supposedly wrote the entir book in a cave?
Please try to keep up.

I said that Abraham founded the original monotheistic religion of Judaism.

And both Christianity and Islam are a continuation of Abraham's teachings. :cool:
 
Abraham founded the first monotheistic religion which was Judaism.

Jesus brought the same message to the people who were later known as Christians.

Islam just continues that same tradition and teaching through Muhammad.

No he didnt'. You're a gotdamn liar.

How did Abraham found Islam and Muhammed supposedly wrote the entir book in a cave?
Please try to keep up.

I said that Abraham founded the original monotheistic religion of Judaism.

And both Christianity and Islam are a continuation of Abraham's teachings. :cool:

He didn't do that either. You're lying. Abraham did not found Judaism. that's some bullshit created by the Ashkenazi Jews.
 
...Not to worry, my friend Mustafaa with CAIR explained that true Islam would not push to indoctrinate anyone to change religions anyway. It is a teaching from Mohammad that there is "no compulsion in religion." So anyone doing that, compelling or even punishing people religiously, is NOT practicing true to Islam. He agrees that many Muslims may need reform, as opposed to trying to reform Islam which is supposed to be final and complete as given.

more typical mooselimb caca - claim that whatever negatives are being discussed are not the "true" islam and then toss out some misleading taqiyya from the koran to fool the naive...

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http://www.meforum.org/1754/peace-or-jihad-abrogation-in-islam

That there is no compulsion in Islam and that Islam is a religion of peace are common refrains among Muslim activists, academics, officials, and journalists. In an age of terrorism and violent jihad, nowhere, they argue, does the Qur'an allow Muslims to fight non-Muslims solely because they refuse to become Muslim.[5] Proponents of Islamic tolerance point to a number of Qur'anic verses which admonish violence and advocate peace, tolerance, and compromise.

But not all verses in the Qur'an have the same weight in assessment. Unlike the Old or New Testaments(?), the Qur'an is not organized by chronology but rather by size of chapters. Even within chapters, chronology can be confused. In sura 2, for example, God revealed verses 193, 216, and 217 to Muhammad shortly after he arrived in Medina. God only revealed verses 190, 191, and 192 six years later. This complicates interpretation, all the more when some verses appear to contradict.

The Qur'an is unique among sacred scriptures in accepting a doctrine of abrogation in which later pronouncements of the Prophet declare null and void his earlier pronouncements. Four verses in the Qu'ran acknowledge or justify abrogation:

2:106 - When we cancel a message, or throw it into oblivion, we replace it with one better or one similar. Do you not know that God has power over all things?
16:101 - When we replace a message with another, and God knows best what he reveals, they say: You have made it up. Yet, most of them do not know.
13:39 - God abrogates or confirms whatsoever he will, for he has with him the Book of the Books.
17:86 - If we pleased, we could take away what we have revealed to you. Then you will not find anyone to plead for it with us.

Rather than explain away inconsistencies in passages regulating the Muslim community, many jurists acknowledge the differences but accept that latter verses trump earlier verses. Most scholars divide the Qur'an into verses revealed by Muhammad in Mecca when his community of followers was weak and more inclined to compromise, and those revealed in Medina, where Muhammad's strength grew...

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and no, islam is rotten to the core and cannot be "reformed" because it is based on the life of a murdering warlord and his b.s. rantings about killing the unbelievers & oppressing the unfaithful are repeated over & over & over & over & over & over again in the koran and hadiths...

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http://alisina.org/blog/2010/12/22/the-illusion-of-reforming-islam

Can Islam be reformed? All other religions have reformed; why can't Islam be reformed?

The problem with Islam is that it is rotten from its core. The evil is in its holy books...

The Christian Reformation began as an attempt to reform, not the Christianity, but the Catholic Church. Many believers were troubled by the Church and its practices...

None of these are doctrines of Christianity. These were practices of the Church. The reformers protested against the Church. They did not defy the authority of the Bible...

Many westerners erroneously believe that Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab, (1703–1792) was the founder of Salafism, an extremist sect of Islam. This is not true. Abdul Wahhab did not found a new sect. He was a reformer of Islam in the same sense that Luther was of Christianity...

The core of Abdul Wahhab's thinking is that Islam is perfect and complete and its decline is the result of religious innovations (bid'ah), and that an Islamic revival will result by purging the religion from foreign influences and by emulating Muhammad and his companions...

Although Christian Reformation and Islamic Reformation are almost identical in their scope, their outcomes have been very different. The literal reading of the Bible became the underpinning of the social theories and organization of Protestant societies and the foundation of social organization of the English colonies in America...

What is the essence of the reformation in Islam? The essence of the Wahhabi belief is that man is a slave of Allah. People are ibad (slaves).

This is diametrically a different discourse from the discourse of Protestantism, and here lies the essential difference between Christianity and Islam...

The discourse of freedom, so essential to Christianity is contrary to what Islam stands for. When Muslims carry placards that read "democracy is hypocrisy", and "freedom go to hell", during their loud demonstrations, they are expressing the true message of Islam, which is anti-freedom, anti-democracy, pro slavery and pro subjugation...

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http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/sina50116.htm

Dear Ali, I appreciate your work. But I think we have to modernize Islam because I have serious doubts that you and other wonderful people can eradicate Islam completely. Modernization is something that is more likely to happen...

You say Christians modernized; why can't Muslims? There is a simple answer to that. The New Testament does not contain so much violence and terror as does the Quran. I don't say the Bible is factual. It sounds more like myths and legends. Nonetheless, the Jesus of the Bible is a saintly figure. He is the embodiment of goodness. So if you don't mind believing in fairytales, Christianity can make you a good person...

Islam is different. The author of Islam was a vile man. He is not a mythological figure. He really existed, and his acts are recorded. Many ludicrous miracles are attributed to him, but once you put aside all those as nonsense and study his life, the portrait of a psychopath emerges. Muhammad was anything but saintly. There is not an act of goodness in his life. Even his kindness and generosity were manipulative and politically motivated...

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http://www.islam-watch.org/MA_Khan/Letter_Reform_Islam.htm

I often wonder whether Islam can ever be reformed the same way as Christianity came out of dark ages...

I firmly believe that the chance of this happening is Nil. Because, the main necessity for any society to achieve reformation is the ability of the society for introspection. Now this is possible if the concerned society believes in Golden Rule and has conscience. These two are completely absent in case of Islam.

Koran tells Muslims that they are best people raised for mankind and their religion is perfect...

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http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.10110/pub_detail.asp

The idea of reforming Islam is not new. Islam cannot be reformed.

Keep in mind that Islam claims that it is the perfect eternal faith for mankind. Splits have occurred and will continue to occur in Islam. Yet, reformation has not happened in nearly 1400 years and is not going to happen. Islam is carved in granite, just the way it is. No change. Allah's book is sealed...

At the heart of the problem is the Quran, Islam's sacred book, considered as a literally perfect and the immutable words of Allah...

Freedoms of all forms are anathema to Islam that is squarely based on total submission to the dictates and will of Allah. Muslims must obey Allah and His Messenger...

Violence is part and parcel of Islam...

Reforming Islam requires discarding Shari'a, but also purging the Quran itself from enormous suras that are not only patently false, but totally repugnant to a civilized humanity...

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http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2012/09/why-islam-does-not-belong-in-western.html

...but Islam is a uniquely aggressive and violent creed. No other major, established religion on this planet stipulates the death penalty for criticizing or mocking its founder and its teachings. Traditional Islamic law does. That’s why no other religious community on Earth behaves the way Muslims are...

...are pushing for national and international laws or speech codes banning any criticism of Islam, its founder and its teachings. Although Western mass media virtually never explain this to their audiences, this would essentially imply submission to Islamic law and Islamic rule...

Islamic culture is incompatible with all of the best aspects of European civilization. No form of Islam as it exists today belongs in any Western country...

Any discussion of an Islamic "Reformation" projects a Western European phenomenon, the Protestant Reformation, onto a totally different religion with more violent core teachings and religious texts than all other major religions on the planet combined.

If by "reformation" we mean to imply a peaceful, tolerant religion with no Jihad and secular laws, then no, it is very unlikely whether such a form of Islam will ever exist.

There are a few types of what we might term "diluted Islam" that are slightly less violently aggressive than the mainstream version of it, but these are all marginal in the greater scheme of things and are frequently persecuted precisely because they deviate from traditional Islamic practices...

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http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/top_ten_sharia.htm

Muslim missionaries who understand the Quran and the hadith believe that sharia (Islamic law) expresses the highest and best goals for all societies. It is the will of Allah...

Muslim polemicists boast that Islam is the best and fullest religion in the world, because it specifies duties and requirements for every aspect of life. But what happens if this control is oppressive? What if it is rooted in a harsh and outdated holy book?...

10. Islam commands that drinkers and gamblers should be whipped
9. Islam allows husbands to hit their wives
8. Islam allows an injured plaintiff to exact legal revenge
7. Islam commands that a male and female thief must have a hand cut off
6. Islam commands that highway robbers should be crucified or mutilated
5. Islam commands that homosexuals must be executed
4. Islam orders unmarried fornicators to be whipped & adulterers to be stoned
3. Islam orders death for Muslim & non-Muslim critics of Muhammad, Quran & sharia
2. Islam orders apostates to be killed
1. Islam commands offensive and aggressive and unjust jihad

The nightmare must end. Sharia oppresses the citizens of Islamic countries. Islam must reform, but the legal hierarchy in Islamic nations will not do this because the judges and legal scholars understand the cost: many passages in the Quran and the hadith must be rejected...

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http://www.answering-islam.org/authors/abraham/reforming_islam.html

As a Muslim, I was willing to swallow a lot of what Mohammad did, such as his too many wives and concubines, etc. But when I read that verse of Jizya in surat Repentance 29 that commands Muslims to humiliate Christians in whatever way possible for not submitting to Islam, I said to myself, This cannot be a prophet from God; this is not seeking the wellbeing of humankind. A true God who made all people would never allow a human being to violate the dignity of another person in the name of God...

It stands to reason that when a Muslim adopts the three principles of the French Revolution, currently the motto of France, Liberté, égalité, fraternité, i.e. "Liberty, equality, fraternity (brotherhood)", he is plainly indicting the teaching of his own Prophet as well as the heritage of Islam over fourteen gloomy centuries...

Under Islam which we meet in the character of Mohammed as well as the oppressive text of the Quran, there is no such thing as liberty or equality, much less brotherhood when humans are classified into Muslims and infidels. Liberty means respect for the individual as an individual and that he/she is entitled to full human dignity in his or her autonomous sovereignty regardless of what they do in their personal lives...

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http://www.theatheistconservative.com/2010/08/22/can-islam-be-reformed

The term "Islamist" is an invention by non-Muslims who want to differentiate between what they insist is the "the vast majority of peace-loving law-abiding Muslims" from the "radicals", or "extremists", or "Islamofascists" for whom they think "Islamist" is a politer word...

...hopes to persuade non-Muslim public opinion that the law and values of Islam are compatible with the laws and values of what is generally called the West...

For both moderates and Islamists the Koran is the holy word of Allah. The holy word of Allah cannot be changed...

What interpretation can be put on commandments to beat wives (sura 4.32), amputate limbs (eg sura 5.38), treat women unequally (eg sura 4.11), kill apostates (eg 4.89) – to take just a few instances of Allah’s writ? They are laid down in the Koran, from which Sharia derives. It is hard to read them and think of an interpretation that cancels, contradicts, or even merely softens their meaning...

...But wouldn’t that require deeply radical change, even complete reversal? And if such a radical change were to be made (by whom?), how, or to what extent, would it still be Sharia? Wouldn’t such a profound alteration mean, in effect, the obliteration of Islam? ...

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http://www.answering-islam.org/Terrorism/islam_terror.html

Islam is different, and it is not different because its followers are poor or oppressed. Islam's founder, Mohammed, unlike Abraham, Jesus, or Buddha, was a warrior who obeyed his own scriptural command to convert others by violence...

Islam was spread into Southern and Eastern Europe by warfare. Devastating Muslim holy wars ravaged the populations of Eastern and Southern Europe, and retarded their progress, until the defeat of the Turks in Vienna in 1683...

The command to use violence to spread the faith is foundational in Muslim scripture, and no Islamic Reformation has yet decommissioned this command...

Jesus advised his followers to render unto Caesar what was Caesar's; he announced that his kingdom was not of this world; he was a proponent of the separation of church and state...

A self-reform movement adequate to generating an Islam that can co-exist comfortably with modernity has not yet emerged. It is not hard to see why: Islam's very scripture condemns doubt as punishable by an eternity in hell, and sentences apostates to death...

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http://www.handbookforinfidels.com/Can-Islam-be-Reformed-.html

There's been a lot of discussion, ever since 9/11, as to whether or not Islam can be reformed, so that it becomes compatible with democracy and human rights. The debate still rages...

But it seems to me that we've skipped a step here. The question we should be asking first is: Is Islam worth reforming? I think that, for anyone who values progressive ideals, this one should be a lot easier to answer...

Would any reasonable person suggest that the Nazi ideology should have been "reformed" and kept alive in some less-lethal form? Perhaps, if we could have gotten them to leave off the Jew-killing, the Gypsy-killing, and the cripple-killing, the Nazis would've been a swell bunch of guys. But, of course, by that point, they really wouldn't have been Nazis anymore, would they? Because all of that murderous violence was the direct expression of their core ideology...

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slam6.jpg
 
In the Islamic community we use the word revert instead of convert to describe a christian or jewish person who has left their former religion and become a muslim.

We say this because the person didn't convert to a new religion.

But in essence they just reverted back the the original monotheistic religion founded by Abraham.

The original religion that started with Abraham is Judaism. It proceeded down the line through Issac. He is also the God that blessed Hagar and gave Ishmael the same birthright that He gave Issac. Read Genesis 21: 13-21 The God that blessed Issac did the same for Abraham's other child. It was the God of Abraham, Issac and Ishmael that made nations out of both boys. It was crazy jealous Mohammad that took you off course.
It will be the God of Abraham the restores peace between the brothers, NOT Allah.
Allah is a figment of Mohammad's imagination.
 
How is it that Islam, written as a religion over 1500 years after Hebrew religion, and 600 years after Christianity, claim that they are an ancient religion, and from Abraham?

Islam includes and incorporates the Jewish Torah and Christian Scriptures along with the Muslim Quran. So this is supposed to be the final message fulfilling the whole lineage, ithe true interpretation of all of these.

Not to worry, my friend Mustafaa with CAIR explained that true Islam would not push to indoctrinate anyone to change religions anyway. It is a teaching from Mohammad that there is "no compulsion in religion." So anyone doing that, compelling or even punishing people religiously, is NOT practicing true to Islam. He agrees that many Muslims may need reform, as opposed to trying to reform Islam which is supposed to be final and complete as given.

Tell your friend at CAIR that lying is a sin. The Qur'an makes it quit clear what you are to do with those who are not Muslims.
The Quran reads like this:
Kill
Kill
kill
kill
I don't know how your friend could have missed it!

It is the God of Abraham and Issac that has your back, and promises a different outcome.
Instead of Kill, Kill, Kill, He will remove the hatred from the hearts of Ismael's children towards Issac's children and replace it with :
Love
Love
Love
Love
Explain that to your friend please, and then research CAIR. < an abomination.
 
Abraham founded the first monotheistic religion which was Judaism.

Jesus brought the same message to the people who were later known as Christians.

Islam just continues that same tradition and teaching through Muhammad.

A popular lie, but a lie nevertheless.
God's plan was Issac.
Sarah's plan resulted in Ishmael.
Abraham's plan was to love them both.
God's plan is to heal Abraham's family.

Islam is a corruption of God's word and is compelled by Satan. Muhammad's teachings are contrary to the Word of God. And Jesus never said, "Kill every body that doesn't agree with you".
 
Islam includes and incorporates the Jewish Torah and Christian Scriptures along with the Muslim Quran. So this is supposed to be the final message fulfilling the whole lineage, the true interpretation of all of these.

Ah, the Muslims venerate the Torah and the Gospel, do they? Hmm... let's check on that, shall we?

From the searchable archives at IslamWeb (linked):

Ash-Shams Ar-Ramli may Allaah have mercy upon him said: 'It is not permissible or sufficient to cleanse oneself after defecation with something that should be respected. What should be respected is of various kinds, among which is something on which some religious knowledge is written, like Prophetic narrations and Islamic jurisprudence, and the knowledge that leads to learning such science. As regards what is not respected, like philosophy and the torah or the Injeel [Gospel] which are known to be distorted and which do not contain any great name, then it is permissible to cleanse with them after defecating.'

Hmmm, I guess they don't venerate them so much after all!


Not to worry, my friend Mustafaa with CAIR explained that true Islam would not push to indoctrinate anyone to change religions anyway. It is a teaching from Mohammad that there is "no compulsion in religion." So anyone doing that, compelling or even punishing people religiously, is NOT practicing true to Islam. He agrees that many Muslims may need reform, as opposed to trying to reform Islam which is supposed to be final and complete as given.

Nope, Muslims won't force you to change your religion; they'll just kill you if you don't, as the Koran commands... repeatedly:

9.5 So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

4.88 What is the matter with you, then, that you have become two parties about the hypocrites, while Allah has made them return (to unbelief) for what they have earned? Do you wish to guide him whom Allah has caused to err? And whomsoever Allah causes to err, you shall by no means find a way for him.
4.89 They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

2.191 And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

I think, Emily, that you need to do a lot more reading, and not just believe what you are told. Go to the sources.

-- Paravani
 
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Muslims believe and venerate the original writings of the Torah and the Bible but disregard later translated and corrupted versions.

And the Quran verses you cite are for a specific time and event from long ago. :cool:
 
Muslims believe and venerate the original writings of the Torah and the Bible but disregard later translated and corrupted versions.

According to the source I linked, IslamWeb, Muslims believe that ALL versions of the Bible are corrupt.

So, I think the Koran is corrupt, too, so I should use IT for toilet paper! How do you like that?

And the Quran verses you cite are for a specific time and event from long ago. :cool:

Tell that to Al Quaeda and the Benghazi terrorists!

-- Paravani
 
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The Bible lists many times where God commanded the Hebrews to kill every man, woman, and child, of various tribes and people. :cool:

Sunni,
Not many times but according to the old Testament there were tribes of hybrids, nephilim, that corrupted the human blood line and created vicious monstrosities. Goliath was an example. Even the animals were hybridized in those tribes. God was specific about how they were to be dealt with.
They were such a threat to mankind, that when there were only 8 humans left on earth that had not been hybridized, God gave them safe passage, and then flooded the earth to kill off the nephilim.

Christ said, "Love one another". Let's do that.. :eusa_angel:
 
There are no original copies of either the Torah or the Bible.

But todays Quran is exactly like the the first Quran. :cool:

The dead sea scrolls attest to the validity of the Torah as being uncorrupted all these years later.

Let's talk New Testament as that is the covenant we are under now. What do you think about loving your brother and having hate replaced with love?

You consider Jesus a worthy prophet right? You must. He's in your book. He said He was coming back and would set up His throne in the house of David, in Israel.
Is your prophet a liar?
 
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There are no original copies of either the Torah or the Bible.

But todays Quran is exactly like the the first Quran. :cool:

Even if this were true, the difference between four thousand years ago and one thousand four hundred is significant, would one not agree? So, surviving copies in their entirety would be unlikely.

Also, reproduction has become easier and more common.

But ascribing all the misalignments between texts to error and/or perversion doesn't work. For instance, how does Islam and the Koran explain Jesus' saying, "Before Abraham was, I am."?
 
Abraham founded the first monotheistic religion which was Judaism.

Jesus brought the same message to the people who were later known as Christians.

Islam just continues that same tradition and teaching through Muhammad.

Where in the New Testament dose it say it is okay to stone women, children and men?
Where does it state that Holy Wars are justfied?
Where does it say that killing anyone that does not convert should die?
Where does it state that a Father may kill his daughter, or disfigure her for disobeying?
 
Muslims believe and venerate the original writings of the Torah and the Bible but disregard later translated and corrupted versions.

And the Quran verses you cite are for a specific time and event from long ago. :cool:

You do not need a holy book, to speak to God.
 

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