the main reason why OWS is hilariously stupid

[hipeter924]

Here's my main complaint with Obama and Wall Street.

Where are the prosecutions?

When Enron failed as part of the 2001-2 collapse, George W. Bush's justice department went after Enron with a vengence. Everyone said that Enron had the Bush people in their back pocket, but Bush still sent the key players to prison. (Ken Lay had a heart attack before he saw the inside of a cell).

Why hasn't Obama prosecuted the people responsible for the 2008 collapse? Maybe because a lot of them were his top donors.

These banks shouldn't exist, they should have gone bankrupt, the banks bribed the US government with all the money they had left to pass the bailout.

At least then if the US had to spend trillions of dollars, it could have got the foreclosed homes back for next to nothing, instead there were stimulus packages and government interference which deepened the recession still further.

If there was no bailout, you would be getting loans from Chinese, Russian, European or otherwise foreign banks who would have set up branches the moment US banks collapsed. Bank of America isn't the worlds only bank, nor is Citibank? So much for the free market, the US got Corporate socialism.

 

[bobcollum]

does no one realize how much our lives would suck without corporations, no tvs, computers, cars they would not exist without them businesses are there to make money. the reason the protestors are mad is because they are jealous that they are not the 1%.

I disagree with that. These are non-thinking greedy, selfish, spoiled brats who don't want to work and think that the mere ability to draw breath entitles them to the money that others make and the wealth that others create.

They are straight out of central casting as the "Mob" from an Ayn Rand novel.

Yep. it's really past the point of envy, but that will happen when you pull off heists of such grand designs.

 

[PeteEU]

they bitch about bailouts.
they bitch about the housing bubble.
they bitch about jobs.

yet they protest wall st instead of the government. the same government that caused each one of those problems. if OWS had any sense they would join forces with the tea party (in an economic context...socially not so much obviously) to get sound money and the free market back on track without the government getting in the way. But nope, these OWS idiots would rather protest middle men and scapegoats and give the real problem a free pass. well done.

This government did not do the bailouts.. Bush did.
This government did not create the housing bubble... the GOP and Clinton did, and Bush did nothing about it
This government did not create the jobs problem.. Bush did by not doing anything about the housing bubble.

So....

And wait one second... is that list not exactly what the Tea Party protests about as well?

 

[code1211]

they bitch about bailouts.
they bitch about the housing bubble.
they bitch about jobs.

yet they protest wall st instead of the government. the same government that caused each one of those problems. if OWS had any sense they would join forces with the tea party (in an economic context...socially not so much obviously) to get sound money and the free market back on track without the government getting in the way. But nope, these OWS idiots would rather protest middle men and scapegoats and give the real problem a free pass. well done.

I think the government deserves some of the blame for not doing their job. But the thing was, at the end of the day, the banks were the ones who lobbied for laxer enforcement and regulation, they were the ones who decided to take all that bad paper, bundle it and sell it to other people.

If the banks had acted in an ethical, practical way, then there wouldn't have been a need for the government to act.

Same thing about jobs. I think the government has done a terrible job signing every free trade treaty with every country in the world while those countries have done nothing to really take our products. But at the end of the day, companies decided that, hey, hollowing out the middle class so we can pay ourselves bigger bonuses is a nifty idea.

The ironic thing is we capitalized rewards and socialized risk. The banks were able to take unnecessary risks because they knew there was no downside. They'd get bailed out and no one would get prosecuted.

If they were within the law in conducting business the way they were conducting business, then the lawmakers were the ones at fault.

WC Fileds said that you can't cheat an honest man. It is only when we try to get something for nothing that we expose ourselves to the kind of problems that we are currently in. Lawmakers who have no clue and no integrity combined with the citzenry that has the same shortcomings are what caused our current mess.

The bankers are as at fault as is a hand gun in a suicide.

 

[Si modo]

they bitch about bailouts.
they bitch about the housing bubble.
they bitch about jobs.

yet they protest wall st instead of the government. the same government that caused each one of those problems. if OWS had any sense they would join forces with the tea party (in an economic context...socially not so much obviously) to get sound money and the free market back on track without the government getting in the way. But nope, these OWS idiots would rather protest middle men and scapegoats and give the real problem a free pass. well done.

The bailouts are the fault of the government.
The housing bubble, not, unless you blame deregulation.
The jobs, not, unless you blame the reluctance of the Republicans to support temporary job measures that boost the economy.

I disagree about the housing bubble. It wasn't so much deregulation, rather it was incompetent regulation. There were already a set of regulations in place, with the requisite reactions by the regulated, and these requisite reactions were not addressed.

With every regulation of the market comes a reaction by the regulated. Those drafting the regulations have a duty to thoroughly analyze the ramifications of those regulations. Rarely do they, because their specialty is politics, not economics.

And, we keep electing the incompetent.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

» Soros to OWS: I Feel Your Pain Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

Billionaire financier, hedge fund kingpin and unabashed globalist George Soros has come out publicly and supported the amorphous Occupy Wall Street movement.
Research conducted by Infowars.com and the alternative media reveal that much of the Occupy Wall Street movement is financed by foundations and organizations connected to Soros, so it is natural that he sympathizes with the movement.

Nice. Soros is sympathetic to the movement he's funding.

 

[code1211]

they bitch about bailouts.
they bitch about the housing bubble.
they bitch about jobs.

yet they protest wall st instead of the government. the same government that caused each one of those problems. if OWS had any sense they would join forces with the tea party (in an economic context...socially not so much obviously) to get sound money and the free market back on track without the government getting in the way. But nope, these OWS idiots would rather protest middle men and scapegoats and give the real problem a free pass. well done.

The bailouts are the fault of the government.
The housing bubble, not, unless you blame deregulation.
The jobs, not, unless you blame the reluctance of the Republicans to support temporary job measures that boost the economy.

The bailouts are the fault of the government because the government did them. More importantly, they did them with no strings attached.
The government does have its share in the blame in the Housing bubble in that it encouraged laws that made it easier to sue banks if you belonged to certain "victim' groups to get loans you probalby didn't merit. Guess which ones failed first?

So that 800 Billion Stimulus that produced no jobs, shovel ready or otherwise, that wasn't the government's fault?

You need to find out more about the bailouts.

Troubled Asset Relief Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[bobcollum]

» Soros to OWS: I Feel Your Pain Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

Billionaire financier, hedge fund kingpin and unabashed globalist George Soros has come out publicly and supported the amorphous Occupy Wall Street movement.
Research conducted by Infowars.com and the alternative media reveal that much of the Occupy Wall Street movement is financed by foundations and organizations connected to Soros, so it is natural that he sympathizes with the movement.

Nice. Soros is sympathetic to the movement he's funding.

I wish I could only see what I want to see...some people are just lucky.

 

[Article 15]

they bitch about bailouts.
they bitch about the housing bubble.
they bitch about jobs.

yet they protest wall st instead of the government. the same government that caused each one of those problems. if OWS had any sense they would join forces with the tea party (in an economic context...socially not so much obviously) to get sound money and the free market back on track without the government getting in the way. But nope, these OWS idiots would rather protest middle men and scapegoats and give the real problem a free pass. well done.

The bailouts are the fault of the government.
The housing bubble, not, unless you blame deregulation.
The jobs, not, unless you blame the reluctance of the Republicans to support temporary job measures that boost the economy.

I disagree about the housing bubble. It wasn't so much deregulation, rather it was incompetent regulation. There were already a set of regulations in place, with the requisite reactions by the regulated, and these requisite reactions were not addressed.

With every regulation of the market comes a reaction by the regulated. Those drafting the regulations have a duty to thoroughly analyze the ramifications of those regulations. Rarely do they, because their specialty is politics, not economics.

And, we keep electing the incompetent.

And all that bad paper getting bundled by the banks then sold off destined to infect everything they touched?

 

[Si modo]

The bailouts are the fault of the government.
The housing bubble, not, unless you blame deregulation.
The jobs, not, unless you blame the reluctance of the Republicans to support temporary job measures that boost the economy.

I disagree about the housing bubble. It wasn't so much deregulation, rather it was incompetent regulation. There were already a set of regulations in place, with the requisite reactions by the regulated, and these requisite reactions were not addressed.

With every regulation of the market comes a reaction by the regulated. Those drafting the regulations have a duty to thoroughly analyze the ramifications of those regulations. Rarely do they, because their specialty is politics, not economics.

And, we keep electing the incompetent.

And all that bad paper getting bundled and sold off by the banks and infecting everything it touched?

Yes, that is a clusterfuck. That started with the S&L bailout and still happens with nothing done about it. When regulations are legislated without any analysis to the ramifications of them, the market WILL react. Especially when the moral hazard of the regs is completely ignored by our lawmakers.

We are hooked on regulations and we make it worse, and worse, and worse. Our lawmakers need to think for a change about what the hell they do. Sure, regulate - it's needed - but for craps sake, do so with care and thought (actual analysis), prudence, and let the market do what it does.

Whenever there is a system with a fundamental driving force, Le Chatlier's principle of equilibrium will always apply. The market has such a fundamental driving force; it's greed. Good or bad, it just is.

 

[JoeB131]

The bailouts are the fault of the government.
The housing bubble, not, unless you blame deregulation.
The jobs, not, unless you blame the reluctance of the Republicans to support temporary job measures that boost the economy.

The bailouts are the fault of the government because the government did them. More importantly, they did them with no strings attached.
The government does have its share in the blame in the Housing bubble in that it encouraged laws that made it easier to sue banks if you belonged to certain "victim' groups to get loans you probalby didn't merit. Guess which ones failed first?

So that 800 Billion Stimulus that produced no jobs, shovel ready or otherwise, that wasn't the government's fault?

You need to find out more about the bailouts.

Troubled Asset Relief Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No, I don't. The bailouts had a purpose, to keep money flowing to businesses and prevent a recession. That didn't happen. The crooked bankers used the money to cover their losses and continued to pay themselves bonuses, while unemployment shot up to 10%.

There should have been public show trials for these guys...

 

[Katzndogz]

they bitch about bailouts.
they bitch about the housing bubble.
they bitch about jobs.

yet they protest wall st instead of the government. the same government that caused each one of those problems. if OWS had any sense they would join forces with the tea party (in an economic context...socially not so much obviously) to get sound money and the free market back on track without the government getting in the way. But nope, these OWS idiots would rather protest middle men and scapegoats and give the real problem a free pass. well done.

I think the government deserves some of the blame for not doing their job. But the thing was, at the end of the day, the banks were the ones who lobbied for laxer enforcement and regulation, they were the ones who decided to take all that bad paper, bundle it and sell it to other people.

If the banks had acted in an ethical, practical way, then there wouldn't have been a need for the government to act.

Same thing about jobs. I think the government has done a terrible job signing every free trade treaty with every country in the world while those countries have done nothing to really take our products. But at the end of the day, companies decided that, hey, hollowing out the middle class so we can pay ourselves bigger bonuses is a nifty idea.

The ironic thing is we capitalized rewards and socialized risk. The banks were able to take unnecessary risks because they knew there was no downside. They'd get bailed out and no one would get prosecuted.

That's not quite true. The Community Reinvestment Act was passed by Jimmy Carter, but given teeth by Bill Clinton. Banks and lenders were severely punished for not giving out the liar loans, no doc loans, and loans to people KNOWN not to pay their bills. As an incentive to give these loans, the government permitted bad loans to be bundled with good loans and sold. Up until the CRA, the banks DID act in an ethincal and practical manner. After the CRA, banks that acted ethically found themselves the target of governmental action. They could not expand, they could not move their facilities. Not only that, but because Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were headed by Franklin Raines, who is black, the unethical and criminal practices of those agencies were protected by the Black Congressional Caucus.

Bush tried 17 separate times to get Freddie and Fannie examined. He was stopped every time by democrats.

 

[Si modo]

The bailouts are the fault of the government because the government did them. More importantly, they did them with no strings attached.
The government does have its share in the blame in the Housing bubble in that it encouraged laws that made it easier to sue banks if you belonged to certain "victim' groups to get loans you probalby didn't merit. Guess which ones failed first?

So that 800 Billion Stimulus that produced no jobs, shovel ready or otherwise, that wasn't the government's fault?

You need to find out more about the bailouts.

Troubled Asset Relief Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No, I don't. The bailouts had a purpose, to keep money flowing to businesses and prevent a recession. That didn't happen. The crooked bankers used the money to cover their losses and continued to pay themselves bonuses, while unemployment shot up to 10%.

There should have been public show trials for these guys...

If our lawmakers had been competent in legislating those bailouts, maybe things would have been different.

And, we are in a recession and have been for a while. Recessions happen in cycles. When we recover from this one, there will be another one later.

 

[Si modo]

they bitch about bailouts.
they bitch about the housing bubble.
they bitch about jobs.

yet they protest wall st instead of the government. the same government that caused each one of those problems. if OWS had any sense they would join forces with the tea party (in an economic context...socially not so much obviously) to get sound money and the free market back on track without the government getting in the way. But nope, these OWS idiots would rather protest middle men and scapegoats and give the real problem a free pass. well done.

I think the government deserves some of the blame for not doing their job. But the thing was, at the end of the day, the banks were the ones who lobbied for laxer enforcement and regulation, they were the ones who decided to take all that bad paper, bundle it and sell it to other people.

If the banks had acted in an ethical, practical way, then there wouldn't have been a need for the government to act.

Same thing about jobs. I think the government has done a terrible job signing every free trade treaty with every country in the world while those countries have done nothing to really take our products. But at the end of the day, companies decided that, hey, hollowing out the middle class so we can pay ourselves bigger bonuses is a nifty idea.

The ironic thing is we capitalized rewards and socialized risk. The banks were able to take unnecessary risks because they knew there was no downside. They'd get bailed out and no one would get prosecuted.

That's not quite true. The Community Reinvestment Act was passed by Jimmy Carter, but given teeth by Bill Clinton. Banks and lenders were severely punished for not giving out the liar loans, no doc loans, and loans to people KNOWN not to pay their bills. As an incentive to give these loans, the government permitted bad loans to be bundled with good loans and sold. Up until the CRA, the banks DID act in an ethincal and practical manner. After the CRA, banks that acted ethically found themselves the target of governmental action. They could not expand, they could not move their facilities. Not only that, but because Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were headed by Franklin Raines, who is black, the unethical and criminal practices of those agencies were protected by the Black Congressional Caucus.

Bush tried 17 separate times to get Freddie and Fannie examined. He was stopped every time by democrats.

Absolutely true. Incompetent lawmakers.

 

[Article 15]

You need to find out more about the bailouts.

Troubled Asset Relief Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No, I don't. The bailouts had a purpose, to keep money flowing to businesses and prevent a recession. That didn't happen. The crooked bankers used the money to cover their losses and continued to pay themselves bonuses, while unemployment shot up to 10%.

There should have been public show trials for these guys...

If our lawmakers had been competent in legislating those bailouts, maybe things would have been different.

And, we are in a recession and have been for a while. Recessions happen in cycles. When we recover from this one, there will be another one later.

In your opinion, have the banks done anything wrong?

If so, what?

Do they deserve any blame?

If so, for what?

 

[editec]

they bitch about bailouts.
they bitch about the housing bubble.
they bitch about jobs.

yet they protest wall st instead of the government. the same government that caused each one of those problems. if OWS had any sense they would join forces with the tea party (in an economic context...socially not so much obviously) to get sound money and the free market back on track without the government getting in the way. But nope, these OWS idiots would rather protest middle men and scapegoats and give the real problem a free pass. well done.

I think the government deserves some of the blame for not doing their job. But the thing was, at the end of the day, the banks were the ones who lobbied for laxer enforcement and regulation, they were the ones who decided to take all that bad paper, bundle it and sell it to other people.

If the banks had acted in an ethical, practical way, then there wouldn't have been a need for the government to act.

Same thing about jobs. I think the government has done a terrible job signing every free trade treaty with every country in the world while those countries have done nothing to really take our products. But at the end of the day, companies decided that, hey, hollowing out the middle class so we can pay ourselves bigger bonuses is a nifty idea.

The ironic thing is we capitalized rewards and socialized risk. The banks were able to take unnecessary risks because they knew there was no downside. They'd get bailed out and no one would get prosecuted.

If they were within the law in conducting business the way they were conducting business, then the lawmakers were the ones at fault.

WC Fileds said that you can't cheat an honest man. It is only when we try to get something for nothing that we expose ourselves to the kind of problems that we are currently in. Lawmakers who have no clue and no integrity combined with the citzenry that has the same shortcomings are what caused our current mess.

The bankers are as at fault as is a hand gun in a suicide.

Are you forking nuts?

NOBODY forced the banksters to loan money.

In fact it was the banksters lobbying for lax regulations which made it possible for them to create dubious debt instruments which they foisted onto the unsuspecting bond buyers.

Seriously go read a fucking book.

 

[hipeter924]

I think the government deserves some of the blame for not doing their job. But the thing was, at the end of the day, the banks were the ones who lobbied for laxer enforcement and regulation, they were the ones who decided to take all that bad paper, bundle it and sell it to other people.

If the banks had acted in an ethical, practical way, then there wouldn't have been a need for the government to act.

Same thing about jobs. I think the government has done a terrible job signing every free trade treaty with every country in the world while those countries have done nothing to really take our products. But at the end of the day, companies decided that, hey, hollowing out the middle class so we can pay ourselves bigger bonuses is a nifty idea.

The ironic thing is we capitalized rewards and socialized risk. The banks were able to take unnecessary risks because they knew there was no downside. They'd get bailed out and no one would get prosecuted.

That's not quite true. The Community Reinvestment Act was passed by Jimmy Carter, but given teeth by Bill Clinton. Banks and lenders were severely punished for not giving out the liar loans, no doc loans, and loans to people KNOWN not to pay their bills. As an incentive to give these loans, the government permitted bad loans to be bundled with good loans and sold. Up until the CRA, the banks DID act in an ethincal and practical manner. After the CRA, banks that acted ethically found themselves the target of governmental action. They could not expand, they could not move their facilities. Not only that, but because Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were headed by Franklin Raines, who is black, the unethical and criminal practices of those agencies were protected by the Black Congressional Caucus.

Bush tried 17 separate times to get Freddie and Fannie examined. He was stopped every time by democrats.

Absolutely true. Incompetent lawmakers.

Clinton was worse than Reagan (US healthcare is so bad because Clinton destroyed it, not to mention his administration purposely weakened food regulations so that millions of Americans get sick each year), Reagan was worse than Bush (he added to the wave of financial deregulation under Clinton), Bush was better than Obama (bailouts, stimulus packages,etc), Obama 1 is worse than...to be continued. Blame the Congress and Senate around in those two administrations, they are the ones that voted for this mess.

 

[Si modo]

No, I don't. The bailouts had a purpose, to keep money flowing to businesses and prevent a recession. That didn't happen. The crooked bankers used the money to cover their losses and continued to pay themselves bonuses, while unemployment shot up to 10%.

There should have been public show trials for these guys...

If our lawmakers had been competent in legislating those bailouts, maybe things would have been different.

And, we are in a recession and have been for a while. Recessions happen in cycles. When we recover from this one, there will be another one later.

In your opinion, have the banks done anything wrong?

If so, what?

Do they deserve any blame?

If so, for what?

Honestly, no. I can't assign blame to them. The did what they did within the framework of the regulations given them by lawmakers. It's like assigning blame to flood water seeking lowest ground - the waters will seek lower ground irrespective of any influence. It just is.

Just like flood waters have a driving force to seek lowest ground, banks have a driving force to make money.

If the regulations allow for a different path to make money, it is a given they will take that path.

I don't assign any value judgement on it, just as I don't assign any value judgment on flood waters. I DO assign value judgment on civil engineers who incompetently make dams, levies, shores, canals, etc. who have failed to evaluate the ramifications of their influence on water flow. And, I DO assign value judgment on those regulating who have failed to evaluate the ramifications of their influence on the market.

 

[hipeter924]

The politicians shouldn't have been so corrupt, and people shouldn't have voted them in again, and again and again. If we were to be cynical, the American people are responsible for being stupid/naive enough to vote easily corruptible politicians into office in the first place.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

they bitch about bailouts.
they bitch about the housing bubble.
they bitch about jobs.

yet they protest wall st instead of the government. the same government that caused each one of those problems. if OWS had any sense they would join forces with the tea party (in an economic context...socially not so much obviously) to get sound money and the free market back on track without the government getting in the way. But nope, these OWS idiots would rather protest middle men and scapegoats and give the real problem a free pass. well done.

Whine & cry, all you want.

NO ONE'S gonna put.....

.....CRAZY GLENN.....

....back on the Tube!!!!​