The looming war over gay marriage

[Nick21]

Marriage is not a right...

As per SCOTUS, marriage is a fundamental civil right, it is so fundamental that even inmates, convicts, child abusers and wifebeaters have a right to it.

but leave marriage in the hands of the churches and religious institutions...

Don't forget that there are religious institutions and churches that support marriage equality, so in fact same-sex couples would still be able to get married. And currently their religious freedom to define marriage as their see fit is being impinged upon by the state.

But you will not see support of this from many of the 'gay rights' activists,... because it is not about equal treatment under the law... it is about advancing an agenda

I don't think you will see much support from religious groups for this either because their goal is about enshrining discrimination against gays. They don't want them to have access to civil marriage. It's only a matter of time, and like other forms of discrimination that the majority of Americans supported, most of us look back and wonder why it was an issue.

 

[Qball]

The Hawkeye State has seen more than its share of bruising political battles. Despite not having a presidential nominating process in 2010, the coming year will see one of the biggest political fights in Iowa history: The War Over Gay Marriage.

One of war's truisms:
Many battles can be lost, yet a war won.

Gay Marriage is here to stay. Think of the stupid laws against it and the battles waged and then think of prohibition, racial mixing, immigrant stigma.

Allowing Gay marriages is a sign of
social maturity because in reality gay marriages threaten nothing..except maye the ass-etts of the wealthier partner.


The train has left the station: video on youtube....search Rubin Israel and .....wait......

Why must I think of other issues when we're not talking about them? People don't work that way. Saying "x is just like y if you think about" is usually a non-starter because 1) x isn't y, 2) even if we conclude x and y are similar, that doesn't necessitate an identical response, and 3) similar circumstances are not similar subjects. Because racial issues, gender issues, and sexual orientation issues all involve a group of people who may be in the minority, race, gender, and sexual orientation are not the same thing.

 

[DiamondDave]

Marriage is not a right...

Having a contract recognized equally regardless of race or sex falls under 'equal rights' and 'equality before the law'.

the government should be out of the marriage business... have all family units/partnerships recognized as civil unions or whatever other legal term the government wishes... everyone has the same rights of inheritance, legal decision making for an injured partner, taxation, etc... but leave marriage in the hands of the churches and religious institutions...

Why do conservatives get so mad about the word? Just think of 'marriage' as what it is- a legally binding contract- and let God decide who is now one flesh in his eyes.

Funny.. you socialism spouting twit.. I am not arguing against unequal treatment under the law....

Much like you do not get the government to deem you as black because you simply want it.. or deem you as an antelope because you feel you are one... you don't get the government to deem you as married when it is not what marriage has been recognized as... AGAIN, for you mentally inferior twits... deem everyone the same in the eyes of government with rights, under a legally binding term such as a civil union... but keep marriage as a religious thing...

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The Hawkeye State has seen more than its share of bruising political battles. Despite not having a presidential nominating process in 2010, the coming year will see one of the biggest political fights in Iowa history: The War Over Gay Marriage.

One of war's truisms:
Many battles can be lost, yet a war won.

Gay Marriage is here to stay. Think of the stupid laws against it and the battles waged and then think of prohibition, racial mixing, immigrant stigma.

Allowing Gay marriages is a sign of
social maturity because in reality gay marriages threaten nothing..except maye the ass-etts of the wealthier partner.


The train has left the station: video on youtube....search Rubin Israel and .....wait......

Why must I think of other issues when we're not talking about them? People don't work that way... similar circumstances are not similar subjects. Because racial issues, gender issues, and sexual orientation issues all involve a group of people who may be in the minority, race, gender, and sexual orientation are not the same thing.

methinks I was not being clear.

gay marriage is here. people are starting to see that most of the arguments against it aren't holding up.

eventually the SCOTUS will side with gays on this issue because the American Experience is in the end about inclusion and not exclusion.

History will repeat itself. It may take time and it may go backwards before it goes forward, but the battle for equality for gays will be one with inclusion.
btw, other nations are allowing gays to serve openly in the military. gays are marrying every where. If you had told people 30 years ago that this would happen.... too funny

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Much like you do not get the government to deem you as black because you simply want it.. or deem you as an antelope because you feel you are one... you don't get the government to deem you as married when it is not what marriage has been recognized as... AGAIN, for you mentally inferior twits... deem everyone the same in the eyes of government with rights, under a legally binding term such as a civil union... but keep marriage as a religious thing...

Why are you so dead set on that word? Do you think God cares what word the State uses to refer to your union, or do you think He cares about whether you live according to His law? if you object to someone else's union on religious grounds, then don't marry them in your Church and let God judge them.

 

[DiamondDave]

Much like you do not get the government to deem you as black because you simply want it.. or deem you as an antelope because you feel you are one... you don't get the government to deem you as married when it is not what marriage has been recognized as... AGAIN, for you mentally inferior twits... deem everyone the same in the eyes of government with rights, under a legally binding term such as a civil union... but keep marriage as a religious thing...

Why are you so dead set on that word? Do you think God cares what word the State uses to refer to your union, or do you think He cares about whether you live according to His law? if you object to someone else's union on religious grounds, then don't marry them in your Church and let God judge them.

And if the couples are deemed equal under the law without the religious term of marriage.. what does it matter? As shown, it is nt about equal treatment, it is about an agenda

 

[JW Frogen]

Marriage is an economic union. Let those who wish to suffer that bond do what they will.

Only love can keep a couple together against the terrible hurricane forces of biology and whim, only love.

Let those who wish to suffer and enjoy such love, love as they will.

 

[DiamondDave]

No JW.. the legal aspect is about the economics...

 

[California Girl]

No JW.. the legal aspect is about the economics...

I have no issue with anyone having a 'civil union' whether they are gay or straight. I have an issue with 'marriage'. To Catholic (me!!), marriage is an institution - ordained by God - as the union of one man and one women for the procreation of children. Simple concept. The Catholic Church cannot 'marry' same sex couples. That is not being anti-gay - it is sticking with our faith.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why gays insist I recognize their rights while they steadfastly refuse to recognize mine.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

No JW.. the legal aspect is about the economics...

I have no issue with anyone having a 'civil union' whether they are gay or straight. I have an issue with 'marriage'. To Catholic (me!!), marriage is an institution - ordained by God - as the union of one man and one women for the procreation of children. Simple concept. The Catholic Church cannot 'marry' same sex couples. That is not being anti-gay - it is sticking with our faith.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why gays insist I recognize their rights while they steadfastly refuse to recognize mine.

What "right" of yours are the gheys not recognizing?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Much like you do not get the government to deem you as black because you simply want it.. or deem you as an antelope because you feel you are one... you don't get the government to deem you as married when it is not what marriage has been recognized as... AGAIN, for you mentally inferior twits... deem everyone the same in the eyes of government with rights, under a legally binding term such as a civil union... but keep marriage as a religious thing...

Why are you so dead set on that word? Do you think God cares what word the State uses to refer to your union, or do you think He cares about whether you live according to His law? if you object to someone else's union on religious grounds, then don't marry them in your Church and let God judge them.

And if the couples are deemed equal under the law without the religious term of marriage.. what does it matter? As shown, it is nt about equal treatment, it is about an agenda

What about churches that recognize and perform same-sex marriages? Would you be ok with that?

 

[California Girl]

No JW.. the legal aspect is about the economics...

I have no issue with anyone having a 'civil union' whether they are gay or straight. I have an issue with 'marriage'. To Catholic (me!!), marriage is an institution - ordained by God - as the union of one man and one women for the procreation of children. Simple concept. The Catholic Church cannot 'marry' same sex couples. That is not being anti-gay - it is sticking with our faith.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why gays insist I recognize their rights while they steadfastly refuse to recognize mine.

What "right" of yours are the gheys not recognizing?

To me, no one person or group of people is more important or 'special' than any other. You want 'marriage', you marry someone of the opposite sex. Civil partnerships, with the same rights and responsibilities as others, are fine. They work perfectly well in Europe. Just don't force the Churches to do something outside their own beliefs.

Everyone talks about 'rights', no one talks about 'responsibility'. You don't just have rights - you have responsibilities. One of those responsibilities is to recognize the rights of other people.

 

[JW Frogen]

Samson, all your 'points' have always been moot.

I am with Mr. Samson on this one, if one has not mooted their points before they make them, then their points are really pointless. At least for them.

One has to comit hari kari intellectually before they can go forth and make a real cut in the world.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I have no issue with anyone having a 'civil union' whether they are gay or straight. I have an issue with 'marriage'. To Catholic (me!!), marriage is an institution - ordained by God - as the union of one man and one women for the procreation of children. Simple concept. The Catholic Church cannot 'marry' same sex couples. That is not being anti-gay - it is sticking with our faith.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why gays insist I recognize their rights while they steadfastly refuse to recognize mine.

What "right" of yours are the gheys not recognizing?

To me, no one person or group of people is more important or 'special' than any other. You want 'marriage', you marry someone of the opposite sex. Civil partnerships, with the same rights and responsibilities as others, are fine. They work perfectly well in Europe. Just don't force the Churches to do something outside their own beliefs.

Everyone talks about 'rights', no one talks about 'responsibility'. You don't just have rights - you have responsibilities. One of those responsibilities is to recognize the rights of other people.

What about churches that accept and perform same-sex marriages? What about their rights and religious freedoms?

 

[JW Frogen]

He (or she) who is without sin (or pleasure) cast the first stone.

And you had better make sure it is a big fucking rock, hit me hard, because I can chuck one mother fucker back.

 

[DiamondDave]

Why are you so dead set on that word? Do you think God cares what word the State uses to refer to your union, or do you think He cares about whether you live according to His law? if you object to someone else's union on religious grounds, then don't marry them in your Church and let God judge them.

And if the couples are deemed equal under the law without the religious term of marriage.. what does it matter? As shown, it is nt about equal treatment, it is about an agenda

What about churches that recognize and perform same-sex marriages? Would you be ok with that?

That is not part of the legal issue.. many churches and many religions do things I do not agree with... but that is neither here nor there

 

[bodecea]

How can you vote on what rights others are allowed to have?

How can you NOT vote on what your society will and won't recognize as a "right"? Oh, wait, I know. When the people stubbornly refuse to yield to the greater wisdom and morality of leftists, it's better if they're given no say over their own society at all.

May I remind you, Tardboy, that the nation voted on ALL of our rights when it ratified the Constitution? You might have heard of it.

Crock...they most certainly did not. Please go back to school and take a course on American Government.

 

[bodecea]

I have no issue with anyone having a 'civil union' whether they are gay or straight. I have an issue with 'marriage'. To Catholic (me!!), marriage is an institution - ordained by God - as the union of one man and one women for the procreation of children. Simple concept. The Catholic Church cannot 'marry' same sex couples. That is not being anti-gay - it is sticking with our faith.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why gays insist I recognize their rights while they steadfastly refuse to recognize mine.

What "right" of yours are the gheys not recognizing?

To me, no one person or group of people is more important or 'special' than any other. You want 'marriage', you marry someone of the opposite sex. Civil partnerships, with the same rights and responsibilities as others, are fine. They work perfectly well in Europe. Just don't force the Churches to do something outside their own beliefs.

Everyone talks about 'rights', no one talks about 'responsibility'. You don't just have rights - you have responsibilities. One of those responsibilities is to recognize the rights of other people.

So, you believe in discrimination based on gender?

 

[California Girl]

What "right" of yours are the gheys not recognizing?

To me, no one person or group of people is more important or 'special' than any other. You want 'marriage', you marry someone of the opposite sex. Civil partnerships, with the same rights and responsibilities as others, are fine. They work perfectly well in Europe. Just don't force the Churches to do something outside their own beliefs.

Everyone talks about 'rights', no one talks about 'responsibility'. You don't just have rights - you have responsibilities. One of those responsibilities is to recognize the rights of other people.

So, you believe in discrimination based on gender?

No, I believe that the rights of gays do not outweigh the rights of others. For example, I believe in your right to be an idiot but your right to be an idiot can not interfere with my right to be intelligent.

 

[Cecilie1200]

How can you vote on what rights others are allowed to have?

How can you NOT vote on what your society will and won't recognize as a "right"? Oh, wait, I know. When the people stubbornly refuse to yield to the greater wisdom and morality of leftists, it's better if they're given no say over their own society at all.

May I remind you, Tardboy, that the nation voted on ALL of our rights when it ratified the Constitution? You might have heard of it.

Yes, they also included a clause about equal protection.

How can you apply a right to some people and not others?

There is an old saying..

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for supper

We extend lots of rights conditionally, so don't give me that shit. And don't even try on that whole "We added the 14th Amendment, so that trumps any right to vote on things!"