The living wage

[Capitalist]

Of course, you are lying, and support no proof of your assertions, which probably has nothing to do with a living wage. .

What assertion, that Nanny States have always failed in the long run? Here is some proof:

California
New Jersey
New York
Illinois
Greece
Cuba
Spain
Britain
Russia
USSR
North Korea
Venezuela
East Germany

Wanna keep the list going? The more control a government attempts to take over it's people, the closer it gets to the end result of failure.

Bullshit.

The whole fucking country lives on the backs of the people in New York and California.

Were we allowed to keep what we make..instead of supporting red states..we would be doing a lot better.

Now that's a lie.

 

[Sallow]

What assertion, that Nanny States have always failed in the long run? Here is some proof:

California
New Jersey
New York
Illinois
Greece
Cuba
Spain
Britain
Russia
USSR
North Korea
Venezuela
East Germany

Wanna keep the list going? The more control a government attempts to take over it's people, the closer it gets to the end result of failure.

Bullshit.

The whole fucking country lives on the backs of the people in New York and California.

Were we allowed to keep what we make..instead of supporting red states..we would be doing a lot better.

Now that's a lie.

No it isn't.

We got more then 9 million people in New York City alone. Population centers are on the coast..not in the fly over or red states. And those idiots get more power in terms of elections then we do..thanks to the electoral college.

How a state like Alaska..which has less people then a district in Queens has seats in the senate is beyond me.

But we put in more money in the kitty..then we get back.

That the fucking fact..jack.

 

[Capitalist]

Bullshit.

The whole fucking country lives on the backs of the people in New York and California.

Were we allowed to keep what we make..instead of supporting red states..we would be doing a lot better.

Now that's a lie.

No it isn't.

We got more then 9 million people in New York City alone. Population centers are on the coast..not in the fly over or red states. And those idiots get more power in terms of elections then we do..thanks to the electoral college.

How a state like Alaska..which has less people then a district in Queens has seats in the senate is beyond me.

But we put in more money in the kitty..then we get back.

That the fucking fact..jack.

California is borrowing money from the Feds everyday because of overspending. That makes what you said a lie. Cut spending, problem solved.
BTW
I don't think that the Feds should loan Cal. one penny, let them go bankrupt. The liberal monetary policies will change when the checks bounce and the cities burn.
Like they will on the Federal level when the Feds run out of money. Oh, they already have but continue to stall the inevitable by printing.
We will soon learn that man is a rational being and cannot function successfully under coercion.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Why is it that in most locations in your referenced site the minimum wage is larger than the poverty wage...?

If the min wage is larger than the poverty wage.....doesn't that mean the person is not living in poverty....?

This thread is about Living wage, not minimum wage, or poverty.
Copping out i see. It's your site that posted the min and poverty wages...

If a person is receiving wages larger than the poverty wages why is it necessary to arbitrarily hike the wages up to a "living wage"? Seems to me there is some kind of disconnect here...

Because the Living wage is based on the cost of living in that area.
Is the poverty wage based on something entirely different....?

How would you pay a "living wage" to people? Is the employer supposed to pay the "living wage" calculated hourly rate based upon his employee's family situation...? (as laid out in your site) Wouldn't that encourage employers to hire only single people?

Yes, just like taxes and other deductions. It could lead to hiring single people, but there is no evidence it has currently for other family taxation.
That is DISCRIMINATION!

If the rate is based upon the family situation....why should a person(s) receive more "living wages" for the same job just because they have a kid or two...? Isn't that discrimination against those who don't have/already raised children?

I assume that is so. the article notes: "tool is designed to provide a minimum estimate of the cost of living for low wage families. " Families.
That is DISCRIMINATION!

When you have 2 adults living together why should one get a "living wage" enough to support both of them...? Isn't that discriminatory to the single person...?

It could be discriminatory, just like the tax system is for married families with/without kids, homo unmarried families with/without kids, single with/without kids. Tax breaks, tax subsidies, etc.
That is DISCRIMINATION!

I thought the Left was against Discrimination......or is that only when it is "convenient" for your purposes....?

 

[syrenn]

Let me explain a few things to the knuckle dragger's.

1.A living wage IS NOT minimum wage, and it is paid by the employer, not the government. It is fair wage for any area or family size in America, and sets the lowest wage paid, not the highest. An employer can reward workers for more work.

A living wage gives a worker his living, and that after all is why we work. Other luxuries such as cars, etc. are above the living wage.

2.When you have a living wage workers can buy more from the market. That means more production. That means more workers being hired.

3.A living wage will reduce taxes. When workers come off social programs like unemployment and welfare, your taxes will go down on paying for social programs they were on, as the burden is spread around.

4.The new workers taxes will lower the amount of taxes you have to pay.

5.It is a myth to think that the cost of items will go up to cover living wages. Living wages are set according to the local area living expenses. With more items being sold, employers would have no reason to raise wages.

6.A living wage will stop two people working in a household, and let one worker spend a 40 hour work week for his employer, giving him more time with his family.

7.Crime will go down as more moms stay home, and society has less latch key children to deal with. ie. less drug use, pregnancy, break ins & crime as parents monitor children.

8.Teenagers will not be in the workforce, rather home studying, hence raising America out of the low intellectual levels children face today.

9.Households that chose to have both spouses working or one spouse holding down two or more jobs, will be penalized with higher taxes, perhaps 75% on the additional jobs. This is to cover the costs of an unemployed person they are keeping from working and increased problems for society. ie. crime children, pregnancies, etc.

10.Workers can start employment with the basics they need to do the job in their area, shelter, food, clothes, utilities.

Living Wage Calculator - Introduction to the Living Wage Calculator

Funny, some think a living wage is sucking off of the government for their whole lives.

Should a guy who mows your grass be paid the same as a Doctor? If you want a "living wage" work for one.

 

[shintao]

So how much is a living wage?

HINT: See first thread on LW subject. Go to link and calculate the LW for your area. Chuckles..............

Hahahahahaha...........
Thats too low.
$100 per hour and a pony.
Some think that wealth is a communal pie that belongs equally to all of us. Wealth is created, it rightly belongs to those who earn it.

Then why doesn't the worker get the money? He earned it.

We all have "equal opportunity" for a good education in government schools.

No we don't mr. clown. Education is a equal class room, mentors at home and school. Poor kids seem to be lacking. Being left behind mr. clown.

Yet some choose to spend their time in gang banging activities and end up in prison or dead.

No parent in the home to raise their kid does that mr. clown. Latch key children, some of who work to support the family, instead of doing studys at home with mom. Children that attended 40 grade schools 20 high schools because their parent moved to work. Parents who have no formal education and cannot teach their children to read or write, mr clown. No one is laughing clown.

The government has created nothing, only a 30% graduation rate if you look at Detroit. Now we are expected to have government run business. Hahahahaha..............

It is not the governments fault retards gutted schools and teachers, refused to pay a living wage to keep a mentor at home. Blame Retards & business mr. clown, that is where the jugglers pins will be found. While the Republican circus has been fun, the final act is coming mr. clown, and it won't be funny.

 

[thereisnospoon]

LMAO! A fair living wage is "unrealistic & unfordable wages??" Maybe I would be missing something here, but why do you think a person works? And then you tell us a living wage is incompatible with freedom? Whose freedom?

No it is not. Plus the market would be skewed higher right up the food chain.
For example we buy your notion of LW. Ok, fine. All business from going forward are required to pay LW. If that means $20 per hour so be it.
Question: What happens to the wages of more highly paid people? Are those wages increased accordingly? Or are those who have EARNED their way to those higher levels supposed to just take the pipe for the team and have unskilled people be paid the same as the more skilled or harder working people?....magic wand..

That would be up to an employer to raise wages above LW. If it was $20. hr, that would mean for that rich area, it would take $20. hr. employment to survive there. That means products are already priced higher at the stores, than the stores down at the ghetto. When a business comes into an area, it gears itself to the area. I expect to pay more for dinner when I travel to the bay area, than I would if I were dinning in a San Andreas Mt. town.

BUT it is entirely up to a employer who is paid more than LW. LW is so low that I doubt few people would be at the wage rate for any given area if they are applying themselves at the job. The employer can show his workers that is the going rate they should be able to survive in that area, and for him to pay anymore extraordinary accomplishments would have to take place for him to pay any of them more.

Since you are so adept at answering questions which are uncomfortable, I won't expect any answers.
Look, businesses....ahh forget it. You won't be able to comprehend business operations anyway.
You have your mind made up.
We tried to educate you on the impossibility of your theory being put into action.
Do you not find it alarming that you are perhaps the only one on here that believes in this stuff?

Not at all. That handfuls of oddballs who are self-centered and think of no one but themselves, I find it a logical conclusion to see it that way. Even when shown how much you will benefit yourself from the arrangement, you still doggedly protect the business people fucking the workers of America. When viewed in this manner, you can see the fucked are in the majority and the fuckees a small amount of the whole. It probably won't change any circumstances, and America can sit stagnant until hell freezes over and the Mexicans take over your jobs, because we are still sliding into the abyss, corporations will keep their Trillion profits & eventually leave before bankrupting themselves, minimum wage means you can live in a refrigerator box or it will be deemed a block to hiring as wages fall more.

Incidentally, as the wages fall more, I assume employers pay workers less, and people like you will lose your homes next, fold your businesses or hire illegals. Surely you can see your own demise coming, correct? You comprehend business operations and can see the slide, and yet you are offering no solutions to correct the fall except cut wages, fuck workers and their benefits, and make closer ties to corporations. What do you plan to do when you have fucked your last worker? Whats the plan expert?

So you are going to evade answering my questions?.
Obfuscation..You are very good at it.
How many times do you have to be told that your plan of waving a magic wand and artificially boosting pay is impossible and will NEVER happen?
Living wage charts are theory. The idea of living wage is a novelty brought forth by union thugs.
I will tell you how this works with the minimum wage.
Most union contracts are in some part indexed to the minimum wage.
What that means is union contracts call for an automatic age increase when the federal minimum wage increases.
And of course the unions would just love to see a federally mandated "living wage" because union pay would skyrocket. Now, who is being greedy?
Look, your theory is out of gas. It's only theory and it ends there.
This discussion like the unions has run it's course. I declare it dead.
Good bye.

 

[Yurt]

Let me explain something to the Liberal/Fascist/Communists:

None of your nanny state meddling ideas have ever worked.

against my opinion on tarp....it does appear that tarp worked

 

[ScreamingEagle]

It is not the governments fault retards gutted schools and teachers, refused to pay a living wage to keep a mentor at home. Blame Retards & business mr. clown, that is where the jugglers pins will be found. While the Republican circus has been fun, the final act is coming mr. clown, and it won't be funny.

omg!... "the final act is coming"...."the final act is coming".....!

ahem...whatza "final act"....?

 

[The Rabbi]

You have no proof anyone would be layed off if paid a fair living wage, because it is not logical. You see you can't get by the consumer having more money in his pocket to spend, so that production, hiring, wages increase.

Have you tried in your state? If you don't try, you fail, and apparently you are failing anyway while maximizing your labor force. If I give you (FREE) a simple idea that will make you a millionaire, would you ignore it? Or would you patent it, produce & sell it on QVC & such shows, or sell it out to one buyer and let them do it, etc? I know I can guarantee you 1 million in sales in the first year, and millions more in succeeding years, if you market it on QVC, and it can be made for under 5-10 dollars each. That is an olive branch & golden ring.

Actually I do have proof. It's called economics. Raise the price of something, you sell less of it.
How many theater ushers or gas station attendents have you seen lately? All victims of the minimum wage.

And what happens when you have more consumers buying your products, as a living wage would result in? Do you sell less or more? Isn't this an economic question?

You won't.
The first thing businesses faced with much higher wage costs will do is cut staff. So people working might be making more. But there will be many more people not working. Who can't afford the widget.

This is the fallacy of the Left in regard to min wage. They suppose the choice is between jobs at $4.50 an hour vs jobs at 7.50/hr. It isnt. That is a false choice. The choice is between jobs at $4.50 an hour and no job at all. I know which one I would take.

 

[The Rabbi]

Let me explain something to the Liberal/Fascist/Communists:

None of your nanny state meddling ideas have ever worked.

against my opinion on tarp....it does appear that tarp worked

What do you mean by TARP? And what do you mean it worked?
Because if you mean a temporary program to prevent large banks and brokerages from going bankrupt then you're probably right.
But if you mean a program that will fix the problem of banks and brokerages going bankrupt then you're dead wrong. TARP created a moral hazard so it is far more likely banks will face the same problem next time because they know they can count on Uncle to bail them out. It was a short term success and a long term failure.

 

[Samson]

It is not the governments fault retards gutted schools and teachers, refused to pay a living wage to keep a mentor at home. Blame Retards & business mr. clown, that is where the jugglers pins will be found. While the Republican circus has been fun, the final act is coming mr. clown, and it won't be funny.

omg!... "the final act is coming"...."the final act is coming".....!

ahem...whatza "final act"....?

 

[Cuyo]

Living Wage Calculator - Introduction to the Living Wage Calculator

The living wage for a single full time employee in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania is $8.40 per hour...

Booooooool-shhhIiiIiIiiiiiTT! If you think you can survive on that and not be homeless I'll sell ya some oceanfront property in Montana!

I start blokes off the street with zero skills @ $9, and that's just a teaser rate in case they quit in the first week (My line of work is not for everyone). Then I feel incredibly guilty stealing their labor for 60 days until I decide to either fire them or give them a raise.

That's the only 2 options in my company. Raise after 60 or out the door. Nobody stays at $9. That's unconscionable. Of course there are plenty of "jobs" in the area more than willing to exploit the flooded labor pool. But not this guy.

 

[DaGoose]

Now that's a lie.

No it isn't.

We got more then 9 million people in New York City alone. Population centers are on the coast..not in the fly over or red states. And those idiots get more power in terms of elections then we do..thanks to the electoral college.

How a state like Alaska..which has less people then a district in Queens has seats in the senate is beyond me.

But we put in more money in the kitty..then we get back.

That the fucking fact..jack.

California is borrowing money from the Feds everyday because of overspending. That makes what you said a lie. Cut spending, problem solved.
BTW
I don't think that the Feds should loan Cal. one penny, let them go bankrupt. The liberal monetary policies will change when the checks bounce and the cities burn.
Like they will on the Federal level when the Feds run out of money. Oh, they already have but continue to stall the inevitable by printing.
We will soon learn that man is a rational being and cannot function successfully under coercion.

Hey Einstein.....sallow's right.

essays & effluvia: Red States Feed at Federal Trough, Blue States Supply the Feed

 

[Sallow]

Now that's a lie.

No it isn't.

We got more then 9 million people in New York City alone. Population centers are on the coast..not in the fly over or red states. And those idiots get more power in terms of elections then we do..thanks to the electoral college.

How a state like Alaska..which has less people then a district in Queens has seats in the senate is beyond me.

But we put in more money in the kitty..then we get back.

That the fucking fact..jack.

California is borrowing money from the Feds everyday because of overspending. That makes what you said a lie. Cut spending, problem solved.
BTW
I don't think that the Feds should loan Cal. one penny, let them go bankrupt. The liberal monetary policies will change when the checks bounce and the cities burn.
Like they will on the Federal level when the Feds run out of money. Oh, they already have but continue to stall the inevitable by printing.
We will soon learn that man is a rational being and cannot function successfully under coercion.

I ain't an expert on California except to say they voted themselves a "no new tax" agenda. But Silicon valley is part of the major economic engine in this country.

I do know New York..especially NYC. This place is the economic engine of the nation..not like the Texas traitor secessionists..or the Alaska traitor secessionists that are like ballerina queens that wind up costing America more money then they are worth. New York is the shit. We are earners..and pay in more then we get back.

That SHOULD give us more political clout..but it doesn't. Our large population SHOULD give us more political clout..but it doesn't.

And frankly I am tired of states like Florida...or Montana..which don't really add so much to this nation telling us how to live our lives.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Living Wage Calculator - Introduction to the Living Wage Calculator

The living wage for a single full time employee in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania is $8.40 per hour...

Booooooool-shhhIiiIiIiiiiiTT! If you think you can survive on that and not be homeless I'll sell ya some oceanfront property in Montana!

I start blokes off the street with zero skills @ $9, and that's just a teaser rate in case they quit in the first week (My line of work is not for everyone). Then I feel incredibly guilty stealing their labor for 60 days until I decide to either fire them or give them a raise.

That's the only 2 options in my company. Raise after 60 or out the door. Nobody stays at $9. That's unconscionable. Of course there are plenty of "jobs" in the area more than willing to exploit the flooded labor pool. But not this guy.

That's nice of you....

However if this lib shit was law and the person you hired is married with a couple of kids you'd better be prepared to pay the person $28 per hour after he passes the 60 day probation.....because that's the "living wage" requirement for his family situation....oh and...

welcome to liberalism managing your company payroll...

 

[Samson]

I ain't an expert on California ....

I do know New York.....especially NYC. . Our large population SHOULD give us more political clout..but it doesn't.

And frankly I am tired of states like Florida...or Montana..which don't really add so much to this nation telling us how to live our lives.

Apparently, you "ain't" much of an expert about how representatives in the US congress are divided between the states.

New York has 31 congressmen, only three less than Texas

Florida has 27 congressmen

Montana has 3 congressmen

 

[Oddball]

No it isn't.

We got more then 9 million people in New York City alone. Population centers are on the coast..not in the fly over or red states. And those idiots get more power in terms of elections then we do..thanks to the electoral college.

How a state like Alaska..which has less people then a district in Queens has seats in the senate is beyond me.

But we put in more money in the kitty..then we get back.

That the fucking fact..jack.

California is borrowing money from the Feds everyday because of overspending. That makes what you said a lie. Cut spending, problem solved.
BTW
I don't think that the Feds should loan Cal. one penny, let them go bankrupt. The liberal monetary policies will change when the checks bounce and the cities burn.
Like they will on the Federal level when the Feds run out of money. Oh, they already have but continue to stall the inevitable by printing.
We will soon learn that man is a rational being and cannot function successfully under coercion.

Hey Einstein.....sallow's right.

essays & effluvia: Red States Feed at Federal Trough, Blue States Supply the Feed

Not that old chestnut again.

How many of those states have huge federal land holdings and/or a strong military presence, professor?

 

[shintao]

No it is not. Plus the market would be skewed higher right up the food chain.
For example we buy your notion of LW. Ok, fine. All business from going forward are required to pay LW. If that means $20 per hour so be it.
Question: What happens to the wages of more highly paid people? Are those wages increased accordingly? Or are those who have EARNED their way to those higher levels supposed to just take the pipe for the team and have unskilled people be paid the same as the more skilled or harder working people?....magic wand..
Since you are so adept at answering questions which are uncomfortable, I won't expect any answers.
Look, businesses....ahh forget it. You won't be able to comprehend business operations anyway.
You have your mind made up.
We tried to educate you on the impossibility of your theory being put into action.
Do you not find it alarming that you are perhaps the only one on here that believes in this stuff?

Not at all. That handfuls of oddballs who are self-centered and think of no one but themselves, I find it a logical conclusion to see it that way. Even when shown how much you will benefit yourself from the arrangement, you still doggedly protect the business people fucking the workers of America. When viewed in this manner, you can see the fucked are in the majority and the fuckees a small amount of the whole. It probably won't change any circumstances, and America can sit stagnant until hell freezes over and the Mexicans take over your jobs, because we are still sliding into the abyss, corporations will keep their Trillion profits & eventually leave before bankrupting themselves, minimum wage means you can live in a refrigerator box or it will be deemed a block to hiring as wages fall more.

Incidentally, as the wages fall more, I assume employers pay workers less, and people like you will lose your homes next, fold your businesses or hire illegals. Surely you can see your own demise coming, correct? You comprehend business operations and can see the slide, and yet you are offering no solutions to correct the fall except cut wages, fuck workers and their benefits, and make closer ties to corporations. What do you plan to do when you have fucked your last worker? Whats the plan expert?

So you are going to evade answering my questions?.
Obfuscation..You are very good at it.
How many times do you have to be told that your plan of waving a magic wand and artificially boosting pay is impossible and will NEVER happen?
Living wage charts are theory. The idea of living wage is a novelty brought forth by union thugs.
I will tell you how this works with the minimum wage.
Most union contracts are in some part indexed to the minimum wage.
What that means is union contracts call for an automatic age increase when the federal minimum wage increases.
And of course the unions would just love to see a federally mandated "living wage" because union pay would skyrocket. Now, who is being greedy?
Look, your theory is out of gas. It's only theory and it ends there.
This discussion like the unions has run it's course. I declare it dead.
Good bye.

LMAO! So 12% of the population waves the wand and gets a living wage in exchange for their trainned skills in speciality employment. How you doing with 20% of the population represented by those greedy boardmembers, stockholders, CEOs, and management?? They don't wait on government increases, they just take them, give themselve handsome bonuses and new plane and cars/limos, etc. Got anything to add there? LMAO!!

Yeah, Union pay should go up. Unions have given corporations to many concessions over the years and the corporation seldom lives up to its promises. IE GM. Hasta La Vista!!!

 

[JBeukema]

Let me explain something to the Liberal/Fascist/Communists:

None of your nanny state meddling ideas have ever worked.

You mean like ending slavery and banning child labor?

No, they mean the Clean Air and Water Acts- and attempts to prevent illegals from working.