The liberals' official hostility to religion takes a strange new turn

[peach174]

Looks like the PC police have threatened members of the House of Representatives against wishing constituents a "Merry Christmas," if they want to do so in a mailing paid for with tax dollars.

Members who submit official mailings for review by the congressional franking commission that reviews all congressional mail to determine if it can be "franked," or paid for with tax dollars, are being told that no holiday greetings, including "Merry Christmas," can be sent in official mail.

"I called the commission to ask for clarification and was told no 'Merry Christmas.' Also told cannot say 'Happy New Year' but can say 'have a happy new year' – referencing the time period of a new year, but not the holiday," said a Hill staffer who requested anonymity.

* * * *

Congressmen can't say 'Merry Christmas' in mail | Campaign 2012 | Washington Examiner

At this point, I'd ask "are you fucking kidding me?" But why bother? I already know they're serious.

Seriously absurd.

We Heathens will take back our midwinter holiday from the Christians who have been taking it over for a while now.

Winter Solstice is usually always on Dec. 21st or 22nd.
Christians have never taken over Solstice ever.
Christmas is always Dec. 25th each and every year.
Hanukkah this year is on the 21st. Winter Solstice is the 22nd and Kwanzaa is the 26th.
So stop believing the myth that Christians took over winter solstice.
They didn't and you who want to worship the midwinter holiday can do so.
But stop trying to get rid of the Christian's Holiday.

 

[Truthmatters]

How can you people just keep lying and lying and lying.


Madison himself said it was in the constituion.

He wrote most of it

 

[Provocateur]

The founders designed a system free of religion.

Pretnd they didnt but the facts are clear

Your ignorance really does keep me away from this forum. That is the truth.



The founders designed a system whereby religion could not be forced upon a person. There was put in place, the freedom of religion. Do you see the difference?



Wait. You're a liberal. Of course you don't see the difference.

Moronic.

 

[Liability]

James Madison's Veto Messages by Gene Garman





June 3, 1811



I have recd. fellow Citizens your address, approving my Objection to the Bill contain[in]g a grant of public land, to the Baptist Church at Salem Meeting House Missippi Terry. Having always regarded the practical distinction between Religion & Civil Govt as essential to the purity of both, and as guaranteed by the Constn: of the U.S. I could not have otherwise discharged my duty on the occasion which presented itself. Among the various religious Societies in our Country, none have been more vigilant or constant in maintain[in]g that distinction, than the Society of which you make a part, and it is an honourable proof of your sincerity & integrity, that you are as ready to do so, in a case favoring the interest of your brethren, as in other cases. It is but just, at the same time, to the Baptist Church at Salem Meeting House, to remark that their application to the Natl. Legislature does not appear to have contemplated a grant of the Land in question, but on terms that might be equitable to the public as well as to themselves. Accept my friendly respects


------------------------------

President Madison's letter as quoted above is located in The Papers of James Madison: Presidential Series, 3:323-324

Why do you deny what the father of the constitution had to say on the matter?

This is cold hard undeniable evidence

The evidence is stark, clear, cold, compelling and undeniable that you are a very stupid little person.

Freedom OF Religion does not mean freedom FROM religion as T just noted, you little ignoramus.

And just as we agree that the Bill to pay Christian teachers to teach Christian religion on the public dime is clearly a promotion of a particular religion, so too is it clear that letting a Congress-critter close-off a franked letter with the wish "Merry Christmas" does NOT promote any one religion nor inhibit the practice or belief in any other religion.

Dayum but you are a closed-minded little rodent.

 

[The T]

If it has to do with ONE religion then its not what the founders wanted

What are YOU babbling about? The Founders only contention was that you are free to worship as you saw fit...there was to be no State Religion as there was in Britain...and you could abstain from it as well and prosper as an individual American Citizen.

And it isn't freedom FROM religion.

You need to go back to school and learn real history and shy away from revised form.

Unfortunately, it was the schools that did that to her.

Indeed. There are too many indoctrinated revisionists among us.

I have read that this topic is silly...Is it? I contend it isn't. it's the second one regarding the First Amendment I've addressed today.

 

[Provocateur]

James Madison is known as the Father of the constitution my friends.


Spew hate on me all you want, when you do you also spew hate on James Madison the Father of our constitution

The Constitution had many Authors...

Twit

I think you're wrong.

All you ever hear about in history books is the Founding Father. Not plural. Never, ever plural.

 

[Truthmatters]

The practical distinction between Religion & Civil Govt as essential to the purity of both, and as guaranteed by the Constn: of the U.S.

James Madison


The man wrote this and its in the historical record.

He said that church and state needed to be kept from each other to protect both.

He is known as the father of our constitution because he wrote the lioms share of it.


What in the hell do you people gain from LYING in the fcace of cold hard undeniable facts?

 

[Truthmatters]

father of the constitution - Bing



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Father of the Constitution - James Madison






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[PredFan]

How can you people just keep lying and lying and lying.


Madison himself said it was in the constituion.

He wrote most of it

Go take your medication.

 

[The T]

Why do you deny what the father of the constitution had to say on the matter?

This is cold hard undeniable evidence

The evidence is stark, clear, cold, compelling and undeniable that you are a very stupid little person.

Freedom OF Religion does not mean freedom FROM religion as T just noted, you little ignoramus.

And just as we agree that the Bill to pay Christian teachers to teach Christian religion on the public dime is clearly a promotion of a particular religion, so too is it clear that letting a Congress-critter close-off a franked letter with the wish "Merry Christmas" does NOT promote any one religion nor inhibit the practice or belief in any other religion.

Dayum but you are a closed-minded little rodent.

it's a matter of perception and/or upbringing/teaching...there are so many that are so offending by individuals practicing speech...even if it is on the taxpayer dime...I don't recall ever a section in the Constitution that prohibited a Congresscritter from speaking thier minds...religious or not...and the mere thought of people getting upset over a phrase [Merry Christmas], would get so many panties in a wad...or nutz in a bunch.

First Amendment means what it says...regardless of where it originates.

 

[Truthmatters]

The practical distinction between Religion & Civil Govt as essential to the purity of both, and as guaranteed by the Constn: of the U.S.


then you do not understand what Madison is saying here.

 

[PredFan]

This is cold hard undeniable evidence

The evidence is stark, clear, cold, compelling and undeniable that you are a very stupid little person.

Freedom OF Religion does not mean freedom FROM religion as T just noted, you little ignoramus.

And just as we agree that the Bill to pay Christian teachers to teach Christian religion on the public dime is clearly a promotion of a particular religion, so too is it clear that letting a Congress-critter close-off a franked letter with the wish "Merry Christmas" does NOT promote any one religion nor inhibit the practice or belief in any other religion.

Dayum but you are a closed-minded little rodent.

it's a matter of perception and/or upbringing/teaching...there are so many that are so offending by individuals practicing speech...even if it is on the taxpayer dime...I don't recall ever a section in the Constitution that prohibited a Congresscritter from speaking thier minds...religious or not...and the mere thought of people getting upset over a phrase [Merry Christmas], would get so many panties in a wad...or nutz in a bunch.

First Amendment means what it says...regardless of where it originates.

the liberals believe that if you tell a lie often enough and loud enough, it will become the truth. The lie has become the truth to Truth Matters.

 

[Liability]

The practical distinction between Religion & Civil Govt as essential to the purity of both, and as guaranteed by the Constn: of the U.S.

James Madison


The man wrote this and its in the historical record.

He said that church and state needed to be kept from each other to protect both.

He is known as the father of our constitution because he wrote the lioms share of it.


What in the hell do you people gain from LYING in the fcace of cold hard undeniable facts?

That he wrote the words is not denied, you sub-cretin.

What he MEANT by it is simply beyond the capacity of your defective little brain to fathom.

WE do not want the church telling us how to run our secular government.

We do not want our secular government running any church, synagogue or mosque.

The "separation" you speak of is not a term used in the Constitution, you dumb shit.

But as a short hand way of expressing what the Constitution tried to accomplish, it will suffice.

We don't want the government telling people what to believe or how to believe. We do not want the government telling people that to get governmental jobs or hold office, they must be adherents of any particular religious faith.

So, no; the government may not pay for Christian teachers to teach Christian religion to public school students.

But that has exactly and precisely NOTHING to do with permitting congress-critters to wish their constituents a "Merry Christmas" at the end of a franked letter. Why? Because that inoffensive little holiday wish neither establishes a governmental mandate for any particular religion NOR does it prohibit ANYBODY from believing in any other faith as they deem appropriate.

You remain utterly stupid, TDM.

 

[The T]

The practical distinction between Religion & Civil Govt as essential to the purity of both, and as guaranteed by the Constn: of the U.S.


then you do not understand what Madison is saying here.

Then Madison should have been adimate of the provisions contained in the First Amendment and ensured they were in it...but alas? He is dead...and We cannot ask for a clarification...unless YOU wish to bring him back to life?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1agMSCHALE]Alice Cooper-Feed My Frankenstein - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Provocateur]

The practical distinction between Religion & Civil Govt as essential to the purity of both, and as guaranteed by the Constn: of the U.S.


then you do not understand what Madison is saying here.

History books do not talk about "Free of Religion".


They talk about "Freedom of Religion".

 

[Foxfyre]

The founders designed a system free of religion.

Pretnd they didnt but the facts are clear

You and facts are like water and oil. Prove it. Show us where in the Constitution it says that because this is a common misconception.

Exactly. Despite TM's misreading of the Founders' intent, they absolutely did not design a system 'free of religion' but rather designed a system in which people could express their religious convictions openly and with no fear of retaliation or repercussions by an authoritarian government. And they intended that freedom to extend to those in Congress as well as those served by Congress. Congress was free to be as religious or non religious as it chose just like everybody else. It was not allowed to require others to profess any religious belief or participate in any religious activity or ritutal however, nor can anybody else.

The Founders would roll over in their graves at the idea of a mandate forbidding ANYBODY, including a U.S. elected official, from wishing anybody a Merry Christmas, a Happy New Year, or any other appropriate greeting of a season.

 

[The T]

The founders designed a system free of religion.

Pretnd they didnt but the facts are clear

You and facts are like water and oil. Prove it. Show us where in the Constitution it says that because this is a common misconception.

Exactly. Despite TM's misreading of the Founders' intent, they absolutely did not design a system 'free of religion' but rather designed a system in which people could express their religious convictions openly and with no fear of retaliation or repercussions by an authoritarian government. And they intended that freedom to extend to those in Congress as well as those served by Congress. Congress was free to be as religious or non religious as it chose just like everybody else. It was not allowed to require others to profess any religious belief or participate in any religious activity or ritutal however, nor can anybody else.

The Founders would roll over in their graves at the idea of a mandate forbidding ANYBODY, including a U.S. elected official, from wishing anybody a Merry Christmas, a Happy New Year, or any other appropriate greeting of a season.

Same with Speech...and many other provisions in the BOR. We are living in a society where these things have been co-opted and basterdized...and people have been ill-taught.

 

[bodecea]

Congressmen can't say 'Merry Christmas' in mail | Campaign 2012 | Washington Examiner

At this point, I'd ask "are you fucking kidding me?" But why bother? I already know they're serious.

Seriously absurd.

We Heathens will take back our midwinter holiday from the Christians who have been taking it over for a while now.

Holiday...you mean Holy Day...right?

Holiday is a term derivitive of religious Holy Days...Times of reflection and Religious fervor...

Holy to what religion?

And which religion had Labor Day as a Holy Day? Veterans Day? Groundhog Day? Columbus Day?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Looks like the PC police have threatened members of the House of Representatives against wishing constituents a "Merry Christmas," if they want to do so in a mailing paid for with tax dollars.

Members who submit official mailings for review by the congressional franking commission that reviews all congressional mail to determine if it can be "franked," or paid for with tax dollars, are being told that no holiday greetings, including "Merry Christmas," can be sent in official mail.

"I called the commission to ask for clarification and was told no 'Merry Christmas.' Also told cannot say 'Happy New Year' but can say 'have a happy new year' – referencing the time period of a new year, but not the holiday," said a Hill staffer who requested anonymity.

* * * *

Congressmen can't say 'Merry Christmas' in mail | Campaign 2012 | Washington Examiner

At this point, I'd ask "are you fucking kidding me?" But why bother? I already know they're serious.

Seriously absurd.

Progressives are making impossible to inhabit the same nation, they are rubbing their atheist ideology in all our faces trying to make it the official state belief

 

[The T]

We Heathens will take back our midwinter holiday from the Christians who have been taking it over for a while now.

Holiday...you mean Holy Day...right?

Holiday is a term derivitive of religious Holy Days...Times of reflection and Religious fervor...

Holy to what religion?

And which religion had Labor Day as a Holy Day? Veterans Day? Groundhog Day? Columbus Day?

You're just plain stupid. I gave the definitions verbatim and thier origins within this thread. You should learn to read. Your argument is shallow, vapid, and off point.