The Liberal vs. The Conservative

[kaz]

A liberal is a champion of the downtrodded. This usually comes from experience with the government and had them help them when they were down and out on their luck, they want to have those programs around so when others are down on their luck, they will have somewhere to go.

A conservative wants to believe that someone is poor because they don't work hard or are losers. They want to ensure no one has any help whatsoever and uses religion as a backdrop to control people's lives.

But anyone who is smart enough to understand that without government programs, chaos would erupt. You would be a democrat. We don't have a lot of smart people in this country.

This is the justification the Democratic party uses for their socialistic policies. But if you look at the actual results of the policy it tells a very different story. I have no doubt you wanted this to happen when you voted for them. But you are responsible for the fact that it's harming both the country and the people these policies were intended to help and you look the other way and continue to vote for it

Then let's turn poor health among people who can't afford medical assistance, monthy food allocations for people who are unemployed (or too poor), housing assistance for the millions who would otherwise be on the streets, etc., over to organized charities and well-intentioned more affluent individuals and see how long such righteous intentions last.

It's not that the government social programs haven't overreached; they have. The problem is how to fix it, not to deny people and suddenly set them free to survive at the whim of do-gooders.

To help people, you're advocating a government that's spent trillions fighting poverty without denting poverty rates and created an economically crippling massive welfare state that fosters dependency. I'm advocating the population and charities of the greatest, most generous population in the world. You're also advocating a solution that we in fact know isn't working. Yes, I stand by that.

 

[kaz]

That's another conservative chestnut. Public schools are now government indoctrination.

Better to learn in church or at home.



Sorta like home dentristry.

Leaves ya toothless.

That's another liberal chestnut. I'm a libertarian, not a conservative

Same thing.

Different candy coating.

You don't know the difference between a conservative and a libertarian...and you're proud of that? Yes, open to other ideas...hallmark of the American left...got it...

 

[kaz]

That's another conservative chestnut. Public schools are now government indoctrination.

Better to learn in church or at home.



Sorta like home dentristry.

Leaves ya toothless.

That's another liberal chestnut. I'm a libertarian, not a conservative

Same thing.

Different candy coating.

BTW, in your limited liberal world, I suppose this statement is true. They are both "not liberal." As far as left wing comprehension is capable. So I suppose in that intellectually limited world you live in the statement is true

 

[Avorysuds]

I'd say the main issue is only progressive liberals have had any representation in the political world for many years.

If we all made an honest list of what it means to be conservative and liberal, then applied policy that we have seen against that list the conservative side would have extremely little support with that policy.

Of course "conservative" ideas are blamed over all others despite the lack of near anything being conservative policy. War, pro life, religion and so on have NOTHING to do with being conservative... even if it did, you could find vast amounts of liberals who support all of those ideas.

I'm not trying to blame liberals here, just defending "my side," conservative... I doubt many politicians really represent a true liberal. Like the media pushes a religious right, I also see the media push a politically ignorant left.

 

[MaggieMae]

One problem is the label itself. "Liberal" isn't exclusive to Democrat, nor "Conservative" to GOP.

"Liberals" today are more of the modern liberal, not the classical liberal. .

"Classical Liberal" is a made up term used by Conservatives to latch themselves on to "some" liberal values without having to dive into the Liberal ocean.

"Classical" Liberals implies there is never growth in the mindset. That's not Liberal in any sense of the word. Liberals are constantly growing. They are open to new ideas and adapt them if those are ideas are deemed worthy.

Conservatives are steeped in Tradition..and do not grow.

That's the difference.

Before "New" Republicans (today's "conservatives") managed to turn liberalism into a synonym for welfare abuse, sexual deviance and even lack of patriotism, it was a noble political philosophy based simply on the premise that citizens should be called upon to look beyond their own self-interests and work for a common interest. Now that moral code is called American SOCIALISM, which is bull.

I always find it intriguing that conservatives generally believe that this country is so great that it has some God-given responsibility to direct the rest of the world in the same way by way of "helping" (at a huge cost) to "democratize" other countries. To accomplish that, we dole out foreign aid and make sure via hands-on nation-building that those citizens have good health and good educational opportunities, but it's never a top priority for our own citizens.

 

[kaz]

I'd say the main issue is only progressive liberals have had any representation in the political world for many years.

If we all made an honest list of what it means to be conservative and liberal, then applied policy that we have seen against that list the conservative side would have extremely little support with that policy.

Of course "conservative" ideas are blamed over all others despite the lack of near anything being conservative policy. War, pro life, religion and so on have NOTHING to do with being conservative... even if it did, you could find vast amounts of liberals who support all of those ideas.

I'm not trying to blame liberals here, just defending "my side," conservative... I doubt many politicians really represent a true liberal. Like the media pushes a religious right, I also see the media push a politically ignorant left.

Good post. I don't agree with everything you say, but it's a good attempt at bridging views. one thing I don't agree with is that I think a true liberal and a true conservative are actually the same. And they would both logically be politically libertarian because that is the only way they are free to pursue their own affective strategies rather then ineffective government driven solutions, as you point out.

 

[kaz]

Before "New" Republicans (today's "conservatives") managed to turn liberalism into a synonym for welfare abuse, sexual deviance and even lack of patriotism, it was a noble political philosophy based simply on the premise that citizens should be called upon to look beyond their own self-interests and work for a common interest. Now that moral code is called American SOCIALISM, which is bull

Actually Democrats did that when they continued to blindly advocate government solutions to all our problems, even when they devolved into welfare abuse, sexual deviance and even lack of patriotism.

 

[Sallow]

And the left are intolerant, hate filled fear mongers who without solutions that actually solve anything have to resort to preaching this sort of crap to get people to vote for them.

But you still hate anything not white with a euro background.

Go fig.

You like blacks and women just fine as long as they shut up and advocate your white bread liberal New England elitist policies. You only hate them when they leave the Democratic party plantation. When a woman dare to step out and speak her mind rather then yours then your liberal women whores take the lead in attacking them. If a black dare speak out against your view your black liberal slaves do it. I leave them free to run their own lives. I only object when they try to run mine. You object when they run away from you. The hatred is from you.

I am cuban/puerto rican/irish/german. But..all American.

I generally could care less about skin color..religion..or ethnicity.

 

[saveliberty]

Liberals are willing to risk the capital and resources of others in an attempt to help those who swander, are unwilling or have no ability to replace those resources. It is a losing proposition from the start.

Conservatives are less willing to use resources in favor of incremental change at a smaller cost. They also recognize that a handout is a handicapping force which leads to tyranny by the government.

 

[Douger]

Liberal=average Joe(including assholes who THINK that they are conservative/Rush worshipers.
Conservative=rich power freaks( both sides of the aisle) hiding behind Nazi's as seen here.
With those loving, helpful Nazi pricks protecting their masters and being paid by the tax dollars of those they are killing.

Coming to a neighborhood near YOU.
Troops battle rioters in Egypt | The Sun |News

I know. murkins say it won't happen there. Hang around a while.The great thing about your nation is the armed people who will be able to kick the shit out of the Nazi's but, while doing so, will think they are fighting liberals.

 

[MaggieMae]

"Classical Liberal" is a made up term used by Conservatives to latch themselves on to "some" liberal values without having to dive into the Liberal ocean.

"Classical" Liberals implies there is never growth in the mindset. That's not Liberal in any sense of the word. Liberals are constantly growing. They are open to new ideas and adapt them if those are ideas are deemed worthy.

Conservatives are steeped in Tradition..and do not grow.

That's the difference.

Watch lot's of TV do ya?

The nice thing about being a liberal is that you get to be defined by your goal and not your actual plan. If you are for government indoctrination and control of education you are "pro-education" no matter how poor the actual results are. If you are for appeasement you are "pro-peace" even though appeasement hasn't ever worked in combating evil governments. And if you are close minded sheep who all believe the same thing on every issue you are "liberal."

Liberalism, it beats thinking...

At least we have plans. Conservatives are all talk and no action. They KNOW what needs to be done, making EDUCATION a top priority for example, yet they talk about abolishing the Department of Education. They KNOW that the biggest cost added to Medicare was the unfunded prescription drug mandate they put in place, but continue to blame liberals for the Medicare program in general. I could go on, but I'm sure others will select other examples which I hope you will ponder.

It's truly amusing to see such a hypocritical statement such as accusing liberals of being closed-minded sheep. Did you miss the last decade somehow? Or how about just the last six months when the true "liberals" in Washington refused to support extension of the tax cuts. Or their fury when health care became a proposal to control insurance costs rather than universal care. That was nearly two years ago.

You've got some homework waiting, if you're truly interested in becoming a player here.

 

[Sallow]

Liberals are willing to risk the capital and resources of others in an attempt to help those who swander, are unwilling or have no ability to replace those resources. It is a losing proposition from the start.

Conservatives are less willing to use resources in favor of incremental change at a smaller cost. They also recognize that a handout is a handicapping force which leads to tyranny by the government.

Oh bullshit.

Conservatives are willing to use resources to create tyranny and then point out it's a god given right of the rulers to rule.

 

[MaggieMae]

The right wing base supports a leadership that doesn't even pretend to help them and use their fears against a new target every couple of months. The gays, the blacks, the Hispanics, the Muslims....

And the left are intolerant, hate filled fear mongers who without solutions that actually solve anything have to resort to preaching this sort of crap to get people to vote for them.

Oh good grief. Who's doing the recruiting for the wild-eyed right wing reactionaries NOW? They seem to arrive in groups.

I'm gonna have to get me some sock puppets.

 

[Sallow]

Liberal=average Joe(including assholes who THINK that they are conservative/Rush worshipers.
Conservative=rich power freaks( both sides of the aisle) hiding behind Nazi's as seen here.
With those loving, helpful Nazi pricks protecting their masters and being paid by the tax dollars of those they are killing.

Coming to a neighborhood near YOU.
Troops battle rioters in Egypt | The Sun |News

I know. murkins say it won't happen there. Hang around a while.The great thing about your nation is the armed people who will be able to kick the shit out of the Nazi's but, while doing so, will think they are fighting liberals.

Ladies and Gentlemen.

Idiocy on display.

 

[MaggieMae]

The nice thing about being a liberal is that you get to be defined by your goal and not your actual plan. If you are for government indoctrination and control of education you are "pro-education" no matter how poor the actual results are. If you are for appeasement you are "pro-peace" even though appeasement hasn't ever worked in combating evil governments. And if you are close minded sheep who all believe the same thing on every issue you are "liberal."

Liberalism, it beats thinking...

Liberalism isn't really intellectually based, it is emotive. Example: poverty is addressed by giving people money, and that makes you feel better, you've given them something.

Never mind you haven't solved anything, only made yourself feel better.

Gawd you people are truly "simple minded".

Just because right wingers have such bizarre and strange mystical beliefs, you can't assume everyone does.

This is a clear example of why right wing policies "fail". See Iraq. See the economy. To them, problems are simple and solutions are equally simple. They break everything down into a "base language" called "simpleton".

Unfortunately, the "real" world is complex. Not "simple".

It's much easier and more successful to use snippets and sloganeering to capture the attention of those who, well, don't pay attention to reality. You of all people should know that by now.

 

[code1211]

What are some of the Primary problems between Liberals and Conservatives today? What are Key differences and beliefs between the 2 groups and how are these issues addressed and taken?

What are negatives and positives of Liberals and Conservatives and how they deal with issues? Which group in your opinion seems to make better sense and more credible decisions when dealing with issues and Why?

Liberals want to assertively correct all wrongs by implementing grand schemes and gearing spending to match costs assuming that increasing taxes will enable the continuation of all programs created. Liberals want to increase public taxation to levels above spending.

Conservatives want to reserve the implementation of any program to only those areas of the society in which Private Enterprise is incapable of or unwilling to make the investment to implement the critically needed programs. Conservatives want to reduce public spending to levels that are within the collections of tax revenues.

California is governed by Liberals and bankrupt.

Indiana is governed by Conservatives and fiscally secure.

The problem with increasing taxation to levels greater than spending is that it is like trying to pour liquid into a cup with no bottom to fill it. Not matter how much you pour in, with no bottom, you will never fill it. If, on the other hand, you have a cup with a defined amount of liquid and budget your use of that liquid to fit your needs, you will be successful.

The word budget is a difficult one for the Congress to get its hands around. They haven't approved one for years. It's been longer since they actually balnced one.

Don't be confused by debates between Democrats and Republicans. Both of these weasel herds are Liberal in their spending.

 

[MaggieMae]

Liberalism isn't really intellectually based, it is emotive. Example: poverty is addressed by giving people money, and that makes you feel better, you've given them something.

Never mind you haven't solved anything, only made yourself feel better.

Gawd you people are truly "simple minded".

Just because right wingers have such bizarre and strange mystical beliefs, you can't assume everyone does.

This is a clear example of why right wing policies "fail". See Iraq. See the economy. To them, problems are simple and solutions are equally simple. They break everything down into a "base language" called "simpleton".

Unfortunately, the "real" world is complex. Not "simple".

Dude, you're funny. The irony that your post is about simple right wingers, and your post contains only sweeping statements and no solutions for anything. Just like your party.

And again the irony, I'm not a right winger, I'm a libertarian. I oppose the wars and I oppose government social control just like government economic control.

And you call us "simple minded." So funny...

Like yours DO???? What a hypocrite. I thought I'd seen the worse of 'em, but now here you are.

 

[MaggieMae]

And the left are intolerant, hate filled fear mongers who without solutions that actually solve anything have to resort to preaching this sort of crap to get people to vote for them.

It only seems that way because the left is made up of those right wing "targets".

The Republican Party is 90% white. They are hostile to minorities. When those minorities fight back, the right says, "Look, see how hostile they are". Well yea. Everyone has a right to defend.

The Republican Party - 90% white, mostly Christian with a smattering of blacks and Hispanics.

The Democratic Party, while a majority is white, barely, included in those whites are people not welcome in the Republican Party, gays, feminists, college professors, scientists and so on. Then include the blacks, Muslims, Hindu, Hispanics, atheists and so on.

There is the difference between the two parties.

Keep talking so people can see where the intolerance is in this country. You sir, have a serious issue. You can't debate points because liberalism is illogical and your policies don't work. They are emotional, emotions like hatred. Like what you preach. Read your posts.

Facts were stated; that you choose to ignore them makes YOU unable to debate. Look up the facts yourself. Clearly you never do, but rely solely on your choice of talking heads to tell you all you need to know.

 

[code1211]

What are some of the Primary problems between Liberals and Conservatives today?

The center.

Nope.

False dichotomy. Liberalism is an ideology (or set of related ideologies). Conservatism is no ideology and refers to nothing at all, really.

I disagree. However, in terms of government, the only application that makes sense is one group wants to spend more and the other group wants to spend less. The only job government has is to provide for the common whatever and do it with the common resources.

As such, all of the ridiculous abortion or not, freedom or not, equality or not wedge issues are just the means to put the criminal de jour in office to steal his share of the tax dollars.

Government's one and only job is to spend money. When they continuously spend more than they have, they are failing as a government. That's all we need to see. Our government is peopled by thieves stealing from us and it's getting worse.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Let's see so called liberal administrations want to increase the size, scope and involvement of government in our lives while claiming it will save us all money in the long run

So called conservative administrations have done the same thing while claiming to do the opposite.

Seems to me the end result is no different.