The Lessons of History

[LordBrownTrout]

O outspent McCain 3-1. It wasn't 8-1 in WI. Unions shuffled in about twenty million.

 

[g5000]

Need some cheese with that whine, Drama Queen?



The taxpayers won. Of course you see that as a bad thing.

Government employees who belong to unions are taxpayers too, genius
Since I helped you with your language skills maybe you could find it in your heart to stop with the personal attacks and attempting to curtail my efforts to debate.

Channeling Willow Tree is not the best way to prove you have anything intelligent to post, BTW.

I'm sorry your butt hurts.

 

[g5000]

"If elected, I will stop the public employee unions from butt humping the taxpayers."

That bastard! He kept his promise! And what do we do to politicians who keep their promises? RECALL them, of course!

Oh, wait. He won by campaigning on public employee union reform. I wonder how a recall for actually doing it will work out?


Seriously, you people have to be incredibly stupid not to have seen that one coming.

 

[g5000]

Government employees who belong to unions are taxpayers too, genius

BWA-HA-HA!



No...no way...

No way anyone is actually this stupid.

Can't be.


Hey, since government employees are taxpayers, let's pay them a million bucks a year! It's coming out of their own pockets, RIGHT?!?!

 

[Skull Pilot]

Government employees who belong to unions are taxpayers too, genius

BWA-HA-HA!



No...no way...

No way anyone is actually this stupid.

Can't be.


Hey, since government employees are taxpayers, let's pay them a million bucks a year! It's coming out of their own pockets, RIGHT?!?!

Government hacks don;t get the fact that they don't contribute to the net tax revenue.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Government employees who belong to unions are taxpayers too, genius

BWA-HA-HA!



No...no way...

No way anyone is actually this stupid.

Can't be.


Hey, since government employees are taxpayers, let's pay them a million bucks a year! It's coming out of their own pockets, RIGHT?!?!

Government hacks don;t get the fact that they don't contribute to the net tax revenue.

Your anger at "government hacks" is less rational than you want others - maybe even yourself - to think.

Reading your rant (1229 yesterday) suggests to me some psychological scare inflicted by a government agency sometime in your life. Of course I maybe wrong, but ...

That said, government employees actually do work. Of course not all are in harms way but many are; examples are fire fighters, police officers, animal control, social workers, parole and probation officers, court and custody officials and of course the military. All of whom require support from other government employees. Such is true on the local, state and federal level.

You assert the private sector will work more cheaply and demand fewer benefits but offer no proof that private sector employees will not strike for better benefits, pay and retirement nor offer an explanation as to how a for profit enterprise will offer a cost-benefit to the public. As someone who recruited, hired, trained and disciplined peace officers I can't imagine how a private firm could afford the process or be willing to do so. Consider the problems created by private security forces in Iraq.

I suspect if you got your wish the private forces would require more revenue than the taxes we pay now for the protections offered by government workers. In addition to taxes fees for service might put families out of their homes - much as happens to families when a catastrophic illness depletes their savings and the breadwinner is out of work.

As a business owner I'm sure you want to keep ever dime you earn. I also suspect many of the fees, taxes and expenses you most complain about are local ones, passed by local officials and supported by most in your community.

If by magic you could make local services disappear what would you do if your business were burglarized? Grab your shotgun and go find the perps? Employ 'Pinkerton' dicks to do the same? Would you employee more workers as fire fighters and EMT's since the local 'hacks' no longer existed? Would you patch the roads with your own workers so the product or service you provide could reach your costumers?

What of the codes, fire, health, construction, zoning, etc. Who would enforce them? How would you respond if the business next to yours decided not to have garbage picked up as a cost cutting measure?

 

[Wry Catcher]

I have not changed my opinion on Citizens United. It leveled the playing field for corporations and individuals to compete with union and PAC money. I'm all for ending all private money in elections, but it's for everyone. Otherwise, there should be no soft money, all hard that puts everyone on a level playing field knowing who bought whom.

All or nothing. That's my stand. Right now, we have all.

I agree. But what CU v. FEC did was to open the doors wider for both sides to anonymously give money - even foreign interests - and can have an impact on our elections greater than anyone of us.

again, I say open it all the way, or close it completely. The big thing it did was level the playing field for legal influence. Foreign nations and businesses are supposed to still be limited. Then again, laws never stop those who are intent on breaking the law.

So why have laws?

 

[Meister]

To the left, when they win, the people have spoken.
To the left, when they lose, the majority is oppressing the minority.

I just needed to bump this. Truer words were never spoken

 

[konradv]

To the left, when they win, the people have spoken.
To the left, when they lose, the majority is oppressing the minority.

I just needed to bump this. Truer words were never spoken

I guess that makes it scripture, eh?

 

[Wry Catcher]

To the left, when they win, the people have spoken.
To the left, when they lose, the majority is oppressing the minority.

I just needed to bump this. Truer words were never spoken

I'm not surprised you have trouble deciphering the difference between an apple and an aardvark.

Think about what you have applauded; frankly it's a stupid comment (I will be most happy to explain it to you Meister. As always I'm willing to help the needy).

 

[Oldstyle]

All this simply because the people of Wisconsin wouldn't kick Walker out of office, Wry?

Yes, a minority has rights in this country but they doesn't mean they are allowed to overturn lawfully held elections simply because they don't agree with the politics of the person who was elected.

The people have spoken. Twice now, actually. Think it might be time for you to admit that THEY have rights as well?

If Barrett had won I'm sure Wry would be singing a different tune.

Not. I've been against CU v. FEC since the ruling. It is wrongheaded and opens up our elections to special interest manipulations - foreign and domestic manipulations. My refrain has remained the same.

Citizen's United was a direct response to the millions of dollars that unions were pouring into elections nationwide. You had union money buying liberal politicians who then turned around and awarded those same unions sweetheart deals paid for by taxpayers. Funny how you had no problem with THAT use of of "special interest manipulation" but are aghast at the manipulations of others.

 

[Meister]

To the left, when they win, the people have spoken.
To the left, when they lose, the majority is oppressing the minority.

I just needed to bump this. Truer words were never spoken

I'm not surprised you have trouble deciphering the difference between an apple and an aardvark.

Think about what you have applauded; frankly it's a stupid comment (I will be most happy to explain it to you Meister. As always I'm willing to help the needy).

Truth hurts?

When you want to be educated on how to live out on your own without using the government teet, hit me up, wry. It really can be life changing....but first I think you need to move from frisco. Too many nanny state nuts live around there.

 

[Meister]

If Barrett had won I'm sure Wry would be singing a different tune.

Not. I've been against CU v. FEC since the ruling. It is wrongheaded and opens up our elections to special interest manipulations - foreign and domestic manipulations. My refrain has remained the same.

Citizen's United was a direct response to the millions of dollars that unions were pouring into elections nationwide. You had union money buying liberal politicians who then turned around and awarded those same unions sweetheart deals paid for by taxpayers. Funny how you had no problem with THAT use of of "special interest manipulation" but are aghast at the manipulations of others.

That's completely different.

 

[Skull Pilot]

BWA-HA-HA!



No...no way...

No way anyone is actually this stupid.

Can't be.


Hey, since government employees are taxpayers, let's pay them a million bucks a year! It's coming out of their own pockets, RIGHT?!?!

Government hacks don;t get the fact that they don't contribute to the net tax revenue.

Your anger at "government hacks" is less rational than you want others - maybe even yourself - to think.

Reading your rant (1229 yesterday) suggests to me some psychological scare inflicted by a government agency sometime in your life. Of course I maybe wrong, but ...

That said, government employees actually do work. Of course not all are in harms way but many are; examples are fire fighters, police officers, animal control, social workers, parole and probation officers, court and custody officials and of course the military. All of whom require support from other government employees. Such is true on the local, state and federal level.

Yeah sure they work but they don't work harder than anyone else do they therefore they do not deserve more pay or better benefits than private sector workers.

You assert the private sector will work more cheaply and demand fewer benefits but offer no proof that private sector employees will not strike for better benefits, pay and retirement nor offer an explanation as to how a for profit enterprise will offer a cost-benefit to the public. As someone who recruited, hired, trained and disciplined peace officers I can't imagine how a private firm could afford the process or be willing to do so. Consider the problems created by private security forces in Iraq.

I suspect if you got your wish the private forces would require more revenue than the taxes we pay now for the protections offered by government workers

.

and are you going to provide proof of that?

In addition to taxes fees for service might put families out of their homes - much as happens to families when a catastrophic illness depletes their savings and the breadwinner is out of work.

You do know that one can purchase disability insurance for just that eventuality don't you?

As a business owner I'm sure you want to keep ever dime you earn. I also suspect many of the fees, taxes and expenses you most complain about are local ones, passed by local officials and supported by most in your community.

My largest tax bill by far is federal not state or local. Just income tax alone cost me upwards of 50K last year; more than my state and local taxes combined.

If by magic you could make local services disappear what would you do if your business were burglarized? Grab your shotgun and go find the perps? Employ 'Pinkerton' dicks to do the same? Would you employee more workers as fire fighters and EMT's since the local 'hacks' no longer existed? Would you patch the roads with your own workers so the product or service you provide could reach your costumers?



What of the codes, fire, health, construction, zoning, etc. Who would enforce them? How would you respond if the business next to yours decided not to have garbage picked up as a cost cutting measure?

Since I never said I wanted to abolish local services your point is worthless.. I said many or most government jobs could be contracted out not that all government jobs should be eliminated.

 

[The Rabbi]

Government employees who belong to unions are taxpayers too, genius

BWA-HA-HA!



No...no way...

No way anyone is actually this stupid.

Can't be.


Hey, since government employees are taxpayers, let's pay them a million bucks a year! It's coming out of their own pockets, RIGHT?!?!

It's like saying that auto workers drive cars so therefore auto makers ought to give them whatever they want in wages and benefits.
I doubt Wry is this stupid in real life. No one could be and survive 10 minutes.

 

[Wry Catcher]

If Barrett had won I'm sure Wry would be singing a different tune.

Not. I've been against CU v. FEC since the ruling. It is wrongheaded and opens up our elections to special interest manipulations - foreign and domestic manipulations. My refrain has remained the same.

Citizen's United was a direct response to the millions of dollars that unions were pouring into elections nationwide. You had union money buying liberal politicians who then turned around and awarded those same unions sweetheart deals paid for by taxpayers. Funny how you had no problem with THAT use of of "special interest manipulation" but are aghast at the manipulations of others.

No it wasn't. Besides that I am opposed to 'bribes' of elected officials; when special interests (unions or buisness) donate to a candidate or incumbent it is an unasserted quid pro quo.

IMO every vote on any bill ought to require that the vote on every bill included how the Member voted and if the Member accepted anything from anyone effected by the bill under penalty of perjury. Even one cup of coffee. Penalty, loss of office, loss of francise and felony conviction.

 

[The Rabbi]

Not. I've been against CU v. FEC since the ruling. It is wrongheaded and opens up our elections to special interest manipulations - foreign and domestic manipulations. My refrain has remained the same.

Citizen's United was a direct response to the millions of dollars that unions were pouring into elections nationwide. You had union money buying liberal politicians who then turned around and awarded those same unions sweetheart deals paid for by taxpayers. Funny how you had no problem with THAT use of of "special interest manipulation" but are aghast at the manipulations of others.

No it wasn't. Besides that I am opposed to 'bribes' of elected officials; when special interests (unions or buisness) donate to a candidate or incumbent it is an unasserted quid pro quo.

IMO every vote on any bill ought to require that the vote on every bill included how the Member voted and if the Member accepted anything from anyone effected by the bill under penalty of perjury. Even one cup of coffee. Penalty, loss of office, loss of francise and felony conviction.

You want to stick a felony on someone for a cup of coffee? Really?

 

[Wry Catcher]

I just needed to bump this. Truer words were never spoken

I'm not surprised you have trouble deciphering the difference between an apple and an aardvark.

Think about what you have applauded; frankly it's a stupid comment (I will be most happy to explain it to you Meister. As always I'm willing to help the needy).

Truth hurts?

When you want to be educated on how to live out on your own without using the government teet, hit me up, wry. It really can be life changing....but first I think you need to move from frisco. Too many nanny state nuts live around there.

Ah, so the bigot in you is asserted for all to see. Thanks for that, as well as expressing your ignorance of San Francisco and the absurd libertarian beliefs you hold.

Which government services do you live without, Meister? Piss and shit in your yard to avoid the sewer system? Ignore red lights as a government interference in your life? Who would you call if someone broke into your home, your banker? Maybe you'd simply shoot the person first, ask questions later. Who would you call if your child went missing? Who would you call if your house caught fire? Who would you call if a neighbor was having a heart attack?

 

[hortysir]

To the left, when they win, the people have spoken.
To the left, when they lose, the majority is oppressing the minority.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Citizen's United was a direct response to the millions of dollars that unions were pouring into elections nationwide. You had union money buying liberal politicians who then turned around and awarded those same unions sweetheart deals paid for by taxpayers. Funny how you had no problem with THAT use of of "special interest manipulation" but are aghast at the manipulations of others.

No it wasn't. Besides that I am opposed to 'bribes' of elected officials; when special interests (unions or buisness) donate to a candidate or incumbent it is an unasserted quid pro quo.

IMO every vote on any bill ought to require that the vote on every bill included how the Member voted and if the Member accepted anything from anyone effected by the bill under penalty of perjury. Even one cup of coffee. Penalty, loss of office, loss of francise and felony conviction.

You want to stick a felony on someone for a cup of coffee? Really?

That's a bit of hyperbole. The fact is the policy in my agency was officers were not to accept anything from anyone, witness, suspect, victim, etc. even a cup of coffee. So it was written, so it was followed. The penalty for its violation was severe, lying about it resulted in the officers termination. Lies by LEOs are never tolerated by command.