The left claims the rich are stealing all the money, what say you?

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Yes I am all for closing loop holes and stoping people from paying zero taxes. Skin in the game I believe is the term that best sums it up.

And equal % taxation on every dollar earned without exception, from every citizen, without floor, ceiling, loophole, or exemption??

Gideon

Did not see you answer this one...

Just that I am looking to see where you stand for future discussions down the road.. I kinda keep up with who stands for or against what

He wont directly respond to my post either. Cowardice or confusion?

 

[The T]

And equal % taxation on every dollar earned without exception, from every citizen, without floor, ceiling, loophole, or exemption??

Gideon

Did not see you answer this one...

Just that I am looking to see where you stand for future discussions down the road.. I kinda keep up with who stands for or against what

He wont directly respond to my post either. Cowardice or confusion?

The former. It would admit defeat.

 

[DiamondDave]

Well.. I would say one thing...

I would have MORE respect than I have for a lot of other far lefties because he did say he was for nobody having a zero sum in federal income taxes... granted, if he is still for a progressive tax I would not have AS MUCH respect, but if every dollar earned was still being taxed and not having huge numbers of people with zeros, it is much different than what the likes of RDD, TDM, deaner, and the like support

 

[RDD_1210]

Well.. I would say one thing...

I would have MORE respect than I have for a lot of other far lefties because he did say he was for nobody having a zero sum in federal income taxes... granted, if he is still for a progressive tax I would not have AS MUCH respect, but if every dollar earned was still being taxed and not having huge numbers of people with zeros, it is much different than what the likes of RDD, TDM, deaner, and the like support

I support fairness (and it's not subjective so I'll save you the energy now before you even reply with your stale response), you support ensuring the rich stay rich and the poor remain poor. Theres a reason why we dont have the system you want and very few share your opinion of a completely flat tax without exception.

 

[Charles_Main]

I have been self employed for 23 years or so. I lost my retirement in my divorce to my ex-wife so I could keep the business. She isn't rich.

I lose mega taxes everyday to local and federal govts. They aren't the rich.

This economy has made it very difficult to recover to previous levels. The economy isn't rich.

Slowly I'm rebuilding lost wealth with no help from anyone but myself. I am not rich but I am very comfortable.

There are greedy people among us but for the most part they only get what you allow them to take from you. The biggest thief of all time is the United States Congress. And YOU do have control over them IF you choose to exercise it.

I can see where they think that, The Rich Earn Most of the Money. Not the same thing as stealing lol. In Fact the Rich also Create most of the new Wealth as well.

I wish there was some way to show People who hate the Rich, What this country would be like with out any of the so called Rich.

Keep in Mind when I say Rich I am using Obama's Definition, which is anyone making over 250,000 as a couple. lol

Obama and you dishonest Hack Libs in here Constantly talk about the 1% but the People you lump into the Group are much much more than 1%. You constantly talk about Millionaires and Billionaires, then want to raise Taxes on anyone Making over 250,000 K as if they are Millionaires.

No honesty left in the left's Arguments.

 

[Charles_Main]

Well.. I would say one thing...

I would have MORE respect than I have for a lot of other far lefties because he did say he was for nobody having a zero sum in federal income taxes... granted, if he is still for a progressive tax I would not have AS MUCH respect, but if every dollar earned was still being taxed and not having huge numbers of people with zeros, it is much different than what the likes of RDD, TDM, deaner, and the like support

I support fairness (and it's not subjective so I'll save you the energy now before you even reply with your stale response), you support ensuring the rich stay rich and the poor remain poor. Theres a reason why we dont have the system you want and very few share your opinion of a completely flat tax without exception.

Considering America has one of the Most Progressive Tax Systems in the world, I hope you can understand when we scratch our heads when you keep talking about Fairness. The Rich pay a larger share of the Burden here, than just about anywhere.

 

[Clementine]

To look at it from the left's point of view, ALL money belongs to the government. All assets belong to the government. The only way you can maintain, much less recover is to TAKE from that government. If you are comfortable, you are taking more than your share. Because you are comfortable, someone else must be uncomfortable.

Your "work" doesn't belong to you. It belongs to the government. By permitting you to work, the government is helping you recover.

That sums up their logic. Never a thought about how wealth is created, they just look at the amount of money vs the number of people and call foul. Never mind that people could do far better for themselves if they tried rather than relying on government.

"Personal responsibility" are dirty words that never get uttered by the wannabe dictators.

Dems seem to believe that the little peons, known as workers, are put on this earth to work for them. It's all so backwards. Not a damn one of them act like the public servants they are, but more like royalty and we are nothing but a but of peasants.

 

[RDD_1210]

Well.. I would say one thing...

I would have MORE respect than I have for a lot of other far lefties because he did say he was for nobody having a zero sum in federal income taxes... granted, if he is still for a progressive tax I would not have AS MUCH respect, but if every dollar earned was still being taxed and not having huge numbers of people with zeros, it is much different than what the likes of RDD, TDM, deaner, and the like support

I support fairness (and it's not subjective so I'll save you the energy now before you even reply with your stale response), you support ensuring the rich stay rich and the poor remain poor. Theres a reason why we dont have the system you want and very few share your opinion of a completely flat tax without exception.

Considering America has one of the Most Progressive Tax Systems in the world, I hope you can understand when we scratch our heads when you keep talking about Fairness. The Rich pay a larger share of the Burden here, than just about anywhere.

Gotta anything to support that Charles or are you just making stuff up? I googled it, and this is first link I found.

Here Are The Countries That Love To Soak The Rich - Business Insider

Looks like we are nowhere near the "worst" when it comes to taxing the rich. So you'll understand why I scratch my head when you think dems are "demonizing" the rich with "outrageous" tax rates.

 

[The Rabbi]

I support fairness (and it's not subjective so I'll save you the energy now before you even reply with your stale response), you support ensuring the rich stay rich and the poor remain poor. Theres a reason why we dont have the system you want and very few share your opinion of a completely flat tax without exception.

Considering America has one of the Most Progressive Tax Systems in the world, I hope you can understand when we scratch our heads when you keep talking about Fairness. The Rich pay a larger share of the Burden here, than just about anywhere.

Gotta anything to support that Charles or are you just making stuff up? I googled it, and this is first link I found.

Here Are The Countries That Love To Soak The Rich - Business Insider

Looks like we are nowhere near the "worst" when it comes to taxing the rich. So you'll understand why I scratch my head when you think dems are "demonizing" the rich with "outrageous" tax rates.

You understand the article does not contradict what CHarles wrote, right?
Of course not. It's "just semantics".

 

[LoneLaugher]

How is raising taxes not punishing success?

ROTFL!

Nice deflection.

What is the deflection? If you raise the tax rates, you raise the tax rates. That is a fact.

I think Congress should raise taxes to 50% and then lower them to 39%. Then Rabbi will think we lowered taxes.

 

[RDD_1210]

Considering America has one of the Most Progressive Tax Systems in the world, I hope you can understand when we scratch our heads when you keep talking about Fairness. The Rich pay a larger share of the Burden here, than just about anywhere.

Gotta anything to support that Charles or are you just making stuff up? I googled it, and this is first link I found.

Here Are The Countries That Love To Soak The Rich - Business Insider

Looks like we are nowhere near the "worst" when it comes to taxing the rich. So you'll understand why I scratch my head when you think dems are "demonizing" the rich with "outrageous" tax rates.

You understand the article does not contradict what CHarles wrote, right?
Of course not. It's "just semantics".

False. Try actually clicking the link next time.

Tax attacks on the rich may seem extreme in the U.S., but around the world rates are far more aggressive.

As a point of reference, America's top marginal rate starts at $373,650 and its percentage 27.9%. That keeps the U.S. out of the top 20.

 

[Pho_King]

One way to ‘see’ the distribution of wealth in the U.S. is to imagine a group of 100 people who have a $100 between them. Evenly distributed each would have one dollar of wealth. Alas, that is far from the actual distribution. According to the most recent study, Currents and Undercurrents, by the Survey of Consumer Finance (Federal Reserve, Department of Treasury, 2006) wealth is distributed accordingly:

50 individuals at the bottom have a nickel. ($0.05 times 50 = $2.50)

The next 40 each have $0.70 of wealth (40 times $0.70 - $28.00).

The next 9 each have $4.00 of wealth (nine times $4.00 = $36.00)

The last richest individual has $33.40 (one time $33.40).



Read more: See the Distribution of Wealth in US (McCain, Obama, cost) - Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, Conservatives, Liberals, Third Parties, Left-Wing, Right-Wing, Congress, President - City-Data Forum

And you are guaranteed, or should have guaranteed, equality in outcome??

No you shouldn't. Be you should be guaranteed the same opportunity.

Right. So what freebies are you going to give the naturally unattractive, less ambitious, less intelligent, less parented, etc etc etc to make up for their deficiencies? Certainly you cannot expect them just to.......work harder?

 

[Pho_King]

Gotta anything to support that Charles or are you just making stuff up? I googled it, and this is first link I found.

Here Are The Countries That Love To Soak The Rich - Business Insider

Looks like we are nowhere near the "worst" when it comes to taxing the rich. So you'll understand why I scratch my head when you think dems are "demonizing" the rich with "outrageous" tax rates.

You understand the article does not contradict what CHarles wrote, right?
Of course not. It's "just semantics".

False. Try actually clicking the link next time.

Tax attacks on the rich may seem extreme in the U.S., but around the world rates are far more aggressive.

As a point of reference, America's top marginal rate starts at $373,650 and its percentage 27.9%. That keeps the U.S. out of the top 20.

Interesting that your comparison, which you believe demonstrates how lenient America is to those evil rich people, compares effective tax rates to marginal tax rates....

 

[Pho_King]

Why? I want Hollywood to pay higher taxes too.

Infact we need to let the Bush tax cuts expire completely on all levels of income.

That is an arguement for another thread.

Why? Is there some virtue in punishing success I am not aware of?

the money lenders charge you more when you are poor, is that fair?

Yes it is. Furthermore, it would be fundamentally unfair if the money lenders were not permitted to assess risk and charge accordingly. Mostly, it would be unfair to the poor, who would, in such a scenario, never have the requisite credit and assets to access lending.

 

[Moonglow]

They charge you more because you are a bigger risk financially. And yes, that is fair.

Yeah tell that to Goldman Sachs!

Assessing risk is not so easy Grampa you should be bright enough to know that given your pontification on this subject.

And you should be bright enough to know thats not what he was talking about. Goldman Sachs doent run the corner lending stores he is referring to.

No, it is run by other rich bankers.

 

[Moonglow]

Why? Is there some virtue in punishing success I am not aware of?

the money lenders charge you more when you are poor, is that fair?

Yes it is. Furthermore, it would be fundamentally unfair if the money lenders were not permitted to assess risk and charge accordingly. Mostly, it would be unfair to the poor, who would, in such a scenario, never have the requisite credit and assets to access lending.

so the 1% loans to bankers on the verge of bancruptcy is fair. Glad to see who's side your on.
I don't take out bank loans, stopped that when they started charging life insurance to their layers of fees.
I have one credit card to IC Penny.
I buy at rent to own. Easy way to go, and you pay as much as for loan at bank.
I have one debt on my 43 acres for 4,000 that I owe a little over3200 on, it is through a private financier. A man that invest his money but not in banks.

All I can say is keep your debt low. Cash in hand or hidden. Keep it out of banks, the govt. is whatching how much money you have.

 

[Pho_King]

the money lenders charge you more when you are poor, is that fair?

Yes it is. Furthermore, it would be fundamentally unfair if the money lenders were not permitted to assess risk and charge accordingly. Mostly, it would be unfair to the poor, who would, in such a scenario, never have the requisite credit and assets to access lending.

so the 1% loans to bankers on the verge of bancruptcy is fair. Glad to see who's side your on.
I don't take out bank loans, stopped that when they started charging life insurance to their layers of fees.
I have one credit card to IC Penny.
I buy at rent to own. Easy way to go, and you pay as much as for loan at bank.
I have one debt on my 43 acres for 4,000 that I owe a little over3200 on, it is through a private financier. A man that invest his money but not in banks.

All I can say is keep your debt low. Cash in hand or hidden. Keep it out of banks, the govt. is whatching how much money you have.

Loans to anyone or by anyone on the verge of bankruptcy are unfair, or at least extremely unwise. And that is why people that are well off are generally considered to be better risks than poor people, and have easier access to credit. Or do you think an applicants financial status should be irrelevant to credit-wotrthiness? If you were gonna lend ten grand, would you rather lend it to your brother with a house and a 100k per year job, or your other brother that works in food service and lives in an apartment, all other things being equal? Now, put that transaction at army's length. It's not a matter of "whose side your on" you arrogant buffoon. It's a question of good lending practices.

 

[Darkwind]

Very good.
So how is raising taxes

1. Punishment.

and

2. Punishment for success?

because a person has to work his ass of to achieve success, for some damn nit wit in congress to decide that you have to give 35% of what you worked for to the gov. who is greedy and wasteful is punishment. They don't appreciate the money, they just piss it away as fast as you can send it to them.. so to be successful is to be punished in the form of tax, all tax is punitive.. to be lazy and unsuccessful is to not be taxed but to be a taker. the taker is rewarded through the fruits of the successful's punitive tax. now go ahead and deny that.

Oh yeah cause this is such a terrible place to live, with the roads, and the parks and the Public universities, and the cops and firemen.

Yeah the successful have come to a 3rd world hell hole and worked their behinds off to gain success. Or there is reality, they are here in the largest ecconomy on earth and are lucky enough or skilled anought to find a niche that works for them and they do better than they would in the vast majority of the world andthen they carp about how horrible it is that they have to pay taxes to keep this nation a great one.

Ohh the poor wealthy how hard they have it.

Your freakin' hillarious!

You don't even know where your taxes go, do you?

No one complains about paying a 'reasonable' amount of taxes, for SOME shared services.

Anything over 20% TOTAL TAX BURDEN is nothing more than theft.

 

[rightwinger]

And you are guaranteed, or should have guaranteed, equality in outcome??

No you shouldn't. Be you should be guaranteed the same opportunity.

Right. So what freebies are you going to give the naturally unattractive, less ambitious, less intelligent, less parented, etc etc etc to make up for their deficiencies? Certainly you cannot expect them just to.......work harder?

The Republicans offer them Prison

I would offer them education, jobs training, jobs placement

 

[Pho_King]

No you shouldn't. Be you should be guaranteed the same opportunity.

Right. So what freebies are you going to give the naturally unattractive, less ambitious, less intelligent, less parented, etc etc etc to make up for their deficiencies? Certainly you cannot expect them just to.......work harder?

The Republicans offer them Prison

I would offer them education, jobs training, jobs placement

Still won't make up for being lazy, ugly and from a single parent nhousehold. You gotta give them something, ass wipe. To make up for what others have that they do not. Equal opportunity.