The Irrepressible Conflict

[pbel]

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What most people who support Israel, don't appear to understand, is that this is a Cultural/Religious/Land War.
That is unlike your normal wars, it is an Irrepressible conflict that will prevent peace until one side completely conquers the other.
The reason for this type of war-fare lies in the total cultural differences that cannot be reconciled by either party. Much like the situation today in Iraq or our-own American Civil War.

The gap is too great for a permanent peace.
It is to the Muslim Public a Foreign Occupation.
Period.
Oh sure we have the religious kooks who control Israeli and the Moslem hearts, who swear that some god chose others waiving a Bible or Koran that means nothing to the Industrialized world as though they are legal documents rather than one groups interpretation of who God really is.
Primitive un-educated ideology!
The Arab Nation in philosophy has existed throughout the last 14 hundred years. They see themselves as one, and someone like Osama bin Laden was in essence created as a leader of not only the Arab Nation but of the larger Muslim Nation.
The 2011 Arab rage and the beginning of the overthrow of the virtual Dictators is proof of this idea in practice.
The Palestinian cause via Osama has become a Muslim cause.
Even Saddam used these phrases to portray himself as an Arab Hero. If America kills him he will be made a Martyr. The same if they get Osama. It will further unite this cause.
Israel's insistence of annexing the third holiest site in Islam and controlling it has sealed its fate by challenging all of Islam. It will eventually be slowly ground to death like all previous invaders.
History has shown through the Christian Crusades that when the Arabs United they always defeated the Western armies, most recently Britain's by relentless grinding. The tremendous advantage in man-power insures a future victory because this relentless grinding. 1.7 BILLION souls against 5-6 million Israelis.
Sure Israel is a bully today but she does not have the numbers to occupy the region. That's why they left Gaza and most of the West Bank. It has become a fortress under constant siege.
That is what Israel has brought upon itself when it went beyond the relatively peaceful pre-67 borders.

It may take hundreds of years of grinding and in the end the invaders like all others before them will just pick up and leave or be slowly ground to death.

 

[uscitizen]

Yep and be a drain on the USA and drag us into conflicts for a hundred years?

Why I do not support the USA supporting Israel.

 

[docmauser1]

Israel's insistence of annexing the third holiest site in Islam and controlling it has sealed its fate by challenging all of Islam.

Arabs-muslims should overcome their inner demons and admit that they worship jews, since jewish sites somehow become "holy in islam". Hehe. Oh, and bth., the dome of the crock is a desecrated byzantine church of the St. Mary of Justinian.

 

[irosie91]

Totalitarian pigs always play the RESISTENCE IS FUTILE game

Genghis Khan did it. The rapist pig of arabia did it Kruschev tried it around 1960 when he sputtered "YOUR GRANDCHILDREN WILL GROW UP UNDER COMMUNISM Pol Pot did it and of course----the jihadist's hero
Adolf hitler did it. Osama ---recent chief Jihadist pig screamed it just before the bullet pierced his forehead

Pee-ball says it too

 

[pbel]

Totalitarian pigs always play the RESISTENCE IS FUTILE game

Genghis Khan did it. The rapist pig of arabia did it Kruschev tried it around 1960 when he sputtered "YOUR GRANDCHILDREN WILL GROW UP UNDER COMMUNISM Pol Pot did it and of course----the jihadist's hero
Adolf hitler did it. Osama ---recent chief Jihadist pig screamed it just before the bullet pierced his forehead

Pee-ball says it too

Irose, except for your fetish on Porky Pig, I have always liked your honesty in posting...Is my assesmxent on what's going on incorrect?

The way I see it, in order for Israel to be accepted as a Jewish State is to accept the Arab State next to it...Not only should she accept that State but to also become part of the Fabric of the Middle East not as an outpost for the Western Powers seen by all Muslims as occupiers...

Irose, Israel needs to make peace with the Arab league as proposed in 2002, and trade with her neighbors or suffer the death of a thousand tiny wounds.

I think the History of the ME supports my analysis.

 

[docmauser1]

... Israel needs to make peace with the Arab league as proposed in 2002, and trade with her neighbors or suffer the death of a thousand tiny wounds.

Bullllsit. As seen in paragraph 2 of it, it's nothing more than a usual arab bastardisation of the resolution 242 and flooding of Israel with hordes of bogus "palistanian refugee" assholes. Let us be good realists and admit that lack of any "initiatives" from the arab corner had become too conspicuous that they had to come up with an unacceptable, but face-saving, peace joke.

 

[Hollie]

Totalitarian pigs always play the RESISTENCE IS FUTILE game

Genghis Khan did it. The rapist pig of arabia did it Kruschev tried it around 1960 when he sputtered "YOUR GRANDCHILDREN WILL GROW UP UNDER COMMUNISM Pol Pot did it and of course----the jihadist's hero
Adolf hitler did it. Osama ---recent chief Jihadist pig screamed it just before the bullet pierced his forehead

Pee-ball says it too

Irose, except for your fetish on Porky Pig, I have always liked your honesty in posting...Is my assesmxent on what's going on incorrect?

The way I see it, in order for Israel to be accepted as a Jewish State is to accept the Arab State next to it...Not only should she accept that State but to also become part of the Fabric of the Middle East not as an outpost for the Western Powers seen by all Muslims as occupiers...

Irose, Israel needs to make peace with the Arab league as proposed in 2002, and trade with her neighbors or suffer the death of a thousand tiny wounds.

I think the History of the ME supports my analysis.

Your comment: “Israel needs to make peace with the Arab league as proposed in 2002, and trade with her neighbors or suffer the death of a thousand tiny wounds”, is frightfully naïve.
Islamism is gripped by an inability to claw its way out of the 7th century. Within islamism, there is a built-in ideological bias that fosters revulsion for non-moslems, especially Jews. So in part, I agree with your assessment that on the part of Arabs/moslems, this is a religious war. I think its therefore naive to think that making peace with hostile, ideological zealots is possible.

Let’s be honest and acknowledge the wave of dictator displacements that are gripping the islamist Middle East are little more than mechanisms to replace secular/islamist dictatorships with theocratic totalitarians screeching the islamist politburo party line. The Salafi Islamist replacements are likely going to be just as extreme and Dark Ages addled as the pious Iranian mullocrats. Make no mistake – theocratic Crusades (of the Salafi kind), are on the march across the Middle East. That prospect should send a chill to the very core of any non-islamist in the Middle East unfortunate enough to be staring into the gaping maw of 7th century islamism.

Unfortunately, what many Westerners are not taking away from these islamist theocratic Crusades is that islamic social mores and sharia "law" are seen as the preferred (and legitimate), societal construct as opposed to Western values of equality under the law, rule of law, separation of church and state and principles whereby the rights of the few are not usurped by the will of the majority. To put a finer point on the matter, Muslims by and large want to be ruled by Islamist regimes, this, in spite of their propensity for economic malaise, social inequities, denigration of religious / secular minorities and gender apartheid!

 

[irosie91]

Holiie----there is an actual deeply entrenched belief in the ENTIRE islamic world ---that it cannot tolerate any relationship based on EQUALITY with anything non muslim---even a simple trading relationship. This sense is RELIGIOUS -----believing it is considered "PIETY" It is possible for this sense to "go away" The fact is that the Greeks did consider themselves "over and above" and got over it----as did the Persions (pre islamic) and as did the "holy roman empire" I believe a kind of "calm" can exist----but until muslims get over their UTOPIAN CALIPHATE CONCEPT ----all relations will be tense and based on "STRENGTH"-----not "love"

 

[pbel]

Holiie----there is an actual deeply entrenched belief in the ENTIRE islamic world ---that it cannot tolerate any relationship based on EQUALITY with anything non muslim---even a simple trading relationship. This sense is RELIGIOUS -----believing it is considered "PIETY" It is possible for this sense to "go away" The fact is that the Greeks did consider themselves "over and above" and got over it----as did the Persions (pre islamic) and as did the "holy roman empire" I believe a kind of "calm" can exist----but until muslims get over their UTOPIAN CALIPHATE CONCEPT ----all relations will be tense and based on "STRENGTH"-----not "love"

Rose, The Roudy Crowd does not understand that Sampson died when he used his Option, nor do they understand that peace and trade with the Arabs would encourage Economic Development enfranchising democracy and the masses which leads to modernizing their Religious Mores.

Just look at the Muslim countries who are not economic basket cases, the gulf states, Morroco and many others: all have more moderate views on Israel and Jews.

Economic Development is the key to modernization.

 

[Lipush]

Holiie----there is an actual deeply entrenched belief in the ENTIRE islamic world ---that it cannot tolerate any relationship based on EQUALITY with anything non muslim---even a simple trading relationship. This sense is RELIGIOUS -----believing it is considered "PIETY" It is possible for this sense to "go away" The fact is that the Greeks did consider themselves "over and above" and got over it----as did the Persions (pre islamic) and as did the "holy roman empire" I believe a kind of "calm" can exist----but until muslims get over their UTOPIAN CALIPHATE CONCEPT ----all relations will be tense and based on "STRENGTH"-----not "love"

Rose, The Roudy Crowd does not understand that Sampson died when he used his Option, nor do they understand that peace and trade with the Arabs would encourage Economic Development enfranchising democracy and the masses which leads to modernizing their Religious Mores.

Just look at the Muslim countries who are not economic basket cases, the gulf states, Morroco and many others: all have more moderate views on Israel and Jews.

Economic Development is the key to modernization.

So what do you suggest

 

[Roudy]

Holiie----there is an actual deeply entrenched belief in the ENTIRE islamic world ---that it cannot tolerate any relationship based on EQUALITY with anything non muslim---even a simple trading relationship. This sense is RELIGIOUS -----believing it is considered "PIETY" It is possible for this sense to "go away" The fact is that the Greeks did consider themselves "over and above" and got over it----as did the Persions (pre islamic) and as did the "holy roman empire" I believe a kind of "calm" can exist----but until muslims get over their UTOPIAN CALIPHATE CONCEPT ----all relations will be tense and based on "STRENGTH"-----not "love"

Rose, The Roudy Crowd does not understand that Sampson died when he used his Option, nor do they understand that peace and trade with the Arabs would encourage Economic Development enfranchising democracy and the masses which leads to modernizing their Religious Mores.

Just look at the Muslim countries who are not economic basket cases, the gulf states, Morroco and many others: all have more moderate views on Israel and Jews.

Economic Development is the key to modernization.

You gotta understand. Pbel's fantasies about the destruction of Israel are LONG TERM. That way, he can get in as many "death to Israel" masturbation sessions before he croaks.

 

[irosie91]

the proposal the interpretation and practice of islam is dependent on whether or not Israel engages in trade with muslim countries is beyond idiotic. The concept that muslims hate jews because muslims are impoverished is also beyond idiotic Jews did not invent islam and have virtually no influence upon it and its "teachings" Judaism certainly is not the cause of the islamic genocide of either christians or hindus or the sectarian fighting among muslims----no matter what your Imam told you

 

[pbel]

the proposal the interpretation and practice of islam is dependent on whether or not Israel engages in trade with muslim countries is beyond idiotic. The concept that muslims hate jews because muslims are impoverished is also beyond idiotic Jews did not invent islam and have virtually no influence upon it and its "teachings" Judaism certainly is not the cause of the islamic genocide of either christians or hindus or the sectarian fighting among muslims----no matter what your Imam told you

Well, I guess Rosie you better stick to preaching about the Filth of Islam, because Economic Theory and social change is Not your forte...


More than ever, U.S. must side with proponents of democracy | Opinion | CentreDaily.com
Recent developments in Egypt, Syria, and elsewhere have convinced skeptics that U.S. human rights promotion in the Middle East causes more harm than good by inciting instability — positioning the Muslim Brotherhood and other anti-Western forces to win elections or otherwise seize power.

The argument has superficial appeal, but it rests on problematic assumptions about the region and U.S. human rights promotion. In fact, the case for promoting human rights in the region is stronger than ever.

Regional stability, which U.S. leaders often pursued in hopes of securing a reliable flow of oil, is becoming an artifact of history. As the Arab Spring made clear, change is coming whether we like it or not. The region’s people are unusually young and increasingly restive about the freedom and opportunity that their governments have failed to provide.

A more democratic region would reduce threats to U.S. interests because democracies tend neither to make war with one another nor sponsor terrorism. A freer, more prosperous region would boost trade and investment opportunities for U.S. businesses, generating more prosperity in the United States.

But if change is inevitable, it will not automatically bring the results we want. So, rather than cede the region’s future to either homegrown jihadists or the outside influence of China and Russia the United States must promote the forces on the ground that are genuinely working for a freer

Read more here: More than ever, U.S. must side with proponents of democracy | Opinion | CentreDaily.com

 

[pbel]

Where's Rosie??????

 

[docmauser1]

A more democratic region would reduce threats to U.S. interests because democracies tend neither to make war with one another nor sponsor terrorism. A freer, more prosperous region would boost trade and investment opportunities for U.S. businesses, generating more prosperity in the United States.

And when us unvestments bear fruit, they'll be happily "nationalized", of course, for one thing.

 

[pbel]

A more democratic region would reduce threats to U.S. interests because democracies tend neither to make war with one another nor sponsor terrorism. A freer, more prosperous region would boost trade and investment opportunities for U.S. businesses, generating more prosperity in the United States.

And when us unvestments bear fruit, they'll be happily "nationalized", of course, for one thing.

Of course once the infrastructure is in then nations stand on their-own Economic feet. Our enemies of Germany and Japan, now prosperous and enfranchised politically are peacemakers...The Arab Spring has opened the Pandora's box to all the dictators, Sheiks and Kings...they will all be gone soon.

History marches before our very eyes!

 

[Hollie]

A more democratic region would reduce threats to U.S. interests because democracies tend neither to make war with one another nor sponsor terrorism. A freer, more prosperous region would boost trade and investment opportunities for U.S. businesses, generating more prosperity in the United States.

And when us unvestments bear fruit, they'll be happily "nationalized", of course, for one thing.

Of course once the infrastructure is in then nations stand on their-own Economic feet. Our enemies of Germany and Japan, now prosperous and enfranchised politically are peacemakers...The Arab Spring has opened the Pandora's box to all the dictators, Sheiks and Kings...they will all be gone soon.

History marches before our very eyes!

That seems terribly naive. The arab spring has done little but to demostrate that theocratic totalitarians are the leaders of choice for a voting arab/moslem population.

 

[irosie91]

hollie

That seems terribly naive. The arab spring has done little but to demostrate that theocratic totalitarians are the leaders of choice for a voting arab/moslem population.


hollie you have posted the INSIGHT OF THE MONTH---or the year----or the decade-----but it will fly right over the heads of the jihadist posterior lickers

 

[pbel]

hollie

That seems terribly naive. The arab spring has done little but to demostrate that theocratic totalitarians are the leaders of choice for a voting arab/moslem population.


hollie you have posted the INSIGHT OF THE MONTH---or the year----or the decade-----but it will fly right over the heads of the jihadist posterior lickers

That is no insight, accepeted Political Theory is that all Revolutions (The French) start out with Radicals taking over until Economics and the feeding of the Nation force moderation and more democracy until they become politically stable...that is the process and may easily take fifty to a hundred years, a flash in the History of the area.

Political change forces Economic change forces modernization forces democracy...Got it Rosie? No filth of Islam but simple Political development.

 

[docmauser1]

Of course once the infrastructure is in then nations stand on their-own Economic feet. Our enemies of Germany and Japan, now prosperous and enfranchised politically are peacemakers...The Arab Spring has opened the Pandora's box to all the dictators, Sheiks and Kings...they will all be gone soon. History marches before our very eyes!

Funny drivel.