The Irish Border Question

[Tommy Tainant]

I know that we are lucky to have a huge number of experts on this board.

I would like to invite you all to consider a solution to the problem of the Irish border.

PM: Northern Ireland border issue could endanger unity of the UK

 

[Tommy Tainant]

I know that we are lucky to have a huge number of experts on this board.

I would like to invite you all to consider a solution to the problem of the Irish border.

PM: Northern Ireland border issue could endanger unity of the UK

I thought that people would love this challenge.

Here are the FACTS.

Northern Ireland has the only physical border the UK has with Europe.

The border is open, there are no checkpoints or customs checks and you can pass from the UK to Eire as easily as Manchester to Liverpool.

During the "troubles" the border was bandit country and heavily policed and patrolled. There were a lot of deaths.

The open border was an integral part of the Good Friday Agreement which more or less brought the troubles to an end.

The Open Border allowed the Catholics in the North to feel that they were a part of a united Ireland in some senses and also allowed the Proddys some peace without having to give up any sovereignty. Hey we are all Europeans anyway !

So brexit was supposedly about taking back control of our borders.

And as stated the only land border in the UK is in Ireland.

So Brexit means there has to be a border.

Now here is the problem facing Mrs May.

Any physical border is anathema to the Republicans who rightly see it as a betrayal of the Good Friday Agreement.

They are not people you want to piss off.

But there has to be a Border of some sort or Ulster would become the soft underbelly of the UK and the home of people and goods smuggling.

So the obvious answer is to call the province a special case and place the border in the middle of the Irish Sea. Any goods or people coming from Ulster would be subject to customs checks in Holyhead,Liverpool and other UK ports.

Problem solved ?

Nope. This solution is not acceptable to the Proddys in the North.

They see themselves as British and any kind of border between the UK and Northern Ireland would be firmly opposed.

And remember their political representatives shore up the UK government in Parliament having received a £1bn pay off to do so.

So a Border is needed but where to put it ?

There is an obvious answer but that would be anathema to a large part of the Tory party who wank themselves off dreaming of a bright brexit future.

So what is the solution to this conundrum ?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Support for Brexit plummets in Northern Ireland, with 69% backing remain

Sort this one out Mrs May.

 

[zaangalewa]

I know that we are lucky to have a huge number of experts on this board.

I would like to invite you all to consider a solution to the problem of the Irish border.

PM: Northern Ireland border issue could endanger unity of the UK

I thought that people would love this challenge.

Here are the FACTS.

Northern Ireland has the only physical border the UK has with Europe.

The border is open, there are no checkpoints or customs checks and you can pass from the UK to Eire as easily as Manchester to Liverpool.

During the "troubles" the border was bandit country and heavily policed and patrolled. There were a lot of deaths.

The open border was an integral part of the Good Friday Agreement which more or less brought the troubles to an end.

The Open Border allowed the Catholics in the North to feel that they were a part of a united Ireland in some senses and also allowed the Proddys some peace without having to give up any sovereignty. Hey we are all Europeans anyway !

So brexit was supposedly about taking back control of our borders.

And as stated the only land border in the UK is in Ireland.

So Brexit means there has to be a border.

Now here is the problem facing Mrs May.

Any physical border is anathema to the Republicans who rightly see it as a betrayal of the Good Friday Agreement.

They are not people you want to piss off.

But there has to be a Border of some sort or Ulster would become the soft underbelly of the UK and the home of people and goods smuggling.

So the obvious answer is to call the province a special case and place the border in the middle of the Irish Sea. Any goods or people coming from Ulster would be subject to customs checks in Holyhead,Liverpool and other UK ports.

Problem solved ?

Nope. This solution is not acceptable to the Proddys in the North.

They see themselves as British and any kind of border between the UK and Northern Ireland would be firmly opposed.

And remember their political representatives shore up the UK government in Parliament having received a £1bn pay off to do so.

So a Border is needed but where to put it ?

Helgoland. For people who need a border it's not far … or Berlin, also not a bad idea. We could reopen a piece of the wall. With death strip, watchtowers, spring guns and a lot of other fun. Or Disneyland near Paris. But then someone needs an iro-anglo-americano-french passe-partout. ...

There is an obvious answer but that would be anathema to a large part of the Tory party who wank themselves off dreaming of a bright brexit future.

So what is the solution to this conundrum ?

It's impossible. So no Brexit. Best idea. I will anyway miss the Brits and I love the Irish.

 

[zaangalewa]

Support for Brexit plummets in Northern Ireland, with 69% backing remain

Sort this one out Mrs May.

It's reasonable what they say. Bad luck. Lots of people in the world - specially politicians - do not understand this language. I'm really not able to understand that all our politicians are not able to "Find a good way for all people" - what else is politics? Nevertheless it's to late. The Brexit will come - otherwise lots of people will have the feeling of a missed chance. So again: The Brexit will come - and we need an Ireland without borders. What about if the European Union would buy Northern Ireland from the Brits? Could this be a way? England leaves the EU and Northern Ireland stays to be member of the EU. A kind of interterritorial zone.

 

[ESay]

There is no win-win solution it seems. Either the British put their strict border on the land or give Northern Ireland special customs status with a strict border on the sea.
I have read that during the Troubles there was an idea in the British govrrnment to give Northern Ireland a status of dominion. Maybe this idea isnt so bad in the long run.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

I support no UK at all.

Northern Ireland belongs to Ireland.

England should be split between Ireland, and Italy. (Like it was back in Roman days)

If Jews can claim Israel because they were there long ago.

So can Ireland, and Italy too.

I don't really respect England anyways, nothing but a menace, bunch of War Mongers, Liberals, and Zionist kooks.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

There is no win-win solution it seems. Either the British put their strict border on the land or give Northern Ireland special customs status with a strict border on the sea.
I have read that during the Troubles there was an idea in the British govrrnment to give Northern Ireland a status of dominion. Maybe this idea isnt so bad in the long run.

I think most of the UK would be grateful to see the back of Ulster.
But the sea border is anathema to the proddys. They see their Britishness as paramount and will not accept a border of any sort. I doubt that they would accept dominion status either but its an interesting thought and more innovative than any other idea Ive seen.
It might hit a snag with the hardcore brexiteers this side of the Irish Sea. Their whole thing is Rule Britannia and they would be loathe to give an inch on that.

 

[rightwinger]

I know that we are lucky to have a huge number of experts on this board.

I would like to invite you all to consider a solution to the problem of the Irish border.

PM: Northern Ireland border issue could endanger unity of the UK

Our members usually recommend building walls to solve border problems

 

[Tommy Tainant]

I know that we are lucky to have a huge number of experts on this board.

I would like to invite you all to consider a solution to the problem of the Irish border.

PM: Northern Ireland border issue could endanger unity of the UK

Our members usually recommend building walls to solve border problems

But where to build it ?

 

[rightwinger]

I know that we are lucky to have a huge number of experts on this board.

I would like to invite you all to consider a solution to the problem of the Irish border.

PM: Northern Ireland border issue could endanger unity of the UK

Our members usually recommend building walls to solve border problems

But where to build it ?

Doesn’t matter as long it is BIG

Irish can’t get over walls

 

[Tommy Tainant]

There is only one answer to this issue.

 

[zaangalewa]

I know that we are lucky to have a huge number of experts on this board.

I would like to invite you all to consider a solution to the problem of the Irish border.

PM: Northern Ireland border issue could endanger unity of the UK

Our members usually recommend building walls to solve border problems

But where to build it ?

A wall? ... We could ask the Trumpies. Very experienced wall builders. I'm sure Trumpies are able to make a plan how to build a wall between England and Ireland, which separates England and Ireland and includes Northern Ireland as well in England and in Ireland. That's the easy part, because god is great and Trump is greater. The difficult part is to let the Mexicans pay for.

 

[ESay]

There is no win-win solution it seems. Either the British put their strict border on the land or give Northern Ireland special customs status with a strict border on the sea.
I have read that during the Troubles there was an idea in the British govrrnment to give Northern Ireland a status of dominion. Maybe this idea isnt so bad in the long run.

I think most of the UK would be grateful to see the back of Ulster.
But the sea border is anathema to the proddys. They see their Britishness as paramount and will not accept a border of any sort. I doubt that they would accept dominion status either but its an interesting thought and more innovative than any other idea Ive seen.
It might hit a snag with the hardcore brexiteers this side of the Irish Sea. Their whole thing is Rule Britannia and they would be loathe to give an inch on that.

All depends on demographics. According to the Good Friday Agreement the question of possible status of Northern Ireland may be decided through a referenda. As far as I am aware the demographics arent in the Protestants' favour and it is obvious that the Catholics wont miss this chance. So, the change of N Ireland's status is unavoidable in the future it seems. The Protestants will have to accept that or move from there. But that is the case of more distant future. In the case of Brexit my bet is that UK will choose an open land border even at the cost of feelings of unionists. Otherwise Ireland will veto the agreement.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

There is no win-win solution it seems. Either the British put their strict border on the land or give Northern Ireland special customs status with a strict border on the sea.
I have read that during the Troubles there was an idea in the British govrrnment to give Northern Ireland a status of dominion. Maybe this idea isnt so bad in the long run.

I think most of the UK would be grateful to see the back of Ulster.
But the sea border is anathema to the proddys. They see their Britishness as paramount and will not accept a border of any sort. I doubt that they would accept dominion status either but its an interesting thought and more innovative than any other idea Ive seen.
It might hit a snag with the hardcore brexiteers this side of the Irish Sea. Their whole thing is Rule Britannia and they would be loathe to give an inch on that.

All depends on demographics. According to the Good Friday Agreement the question of possible status of Northern Ireland may be decided through a referenda. As far as I am aware the demographics arent in the Protestants' favour and it is obvious that the Catholics wont miss this chance. So, the change of N Ireland's status is unavoidable in the future it seems. The Protestants will have to accept that or move from there. But that is the case of more distant future. In the case of Brexit my bet is that UK will choose an open land border even at the cost of feelings of unionists. Otherwise Ireland will veto the agreement.

If they want an open land border we have to stay in the EU or at least the customs union. It cant be done any other way. I think you are correct about the long term future,that is the direction of travel.

However short term Mrs May cant afford to piss off the DUP because they basically shore up her rickety administration.

 

[zaangalewa]

There is no win-win solution it seems. Either the British put their strict border on the land or give Northern Ireland special customs status with a strict border on the sea.
I have read that during the Troubles there was an idea in the British govrrnment to give Northern Ireland a status of dominion. Maybe this idea isnt so bad in the long run.

I think most of the UK would be grateful to see the back of Ulster.
But the sea border is anathema to the proddys. They see their Britishness as paramount and will not accept a border of any sort. I doubt that they would accept dominion status either but its an interesting thought and more innovative than any other idea Ive seen.
It might hit a snag with the hardcore brexiteers this side of the Irish Sea. Their whole thing is Rule Britannia and they would be loathe to give an inch on that.

All depends on demographics. According to the Good Friday Agreement the question of possible status of Northern Ireland may be decided through a referenda. As far as I am aware the demographics arent in the Protestants' favour and it is obvious that the Catholics wont miss this chance. So, the change of N Ireland's status is unavoidable in the future it seems. The Protestants will have to accept that or move from there. But that is the case of more distant future. In the case of Brexit my bet is that UK will choose an open land border even at the cost of feelings of unionists. Otherwise Ireland will veto the agreement.

The conflict in Ireland has nothing to do with Protestants or Catholics. As far as I know it has to do with the English aggressions in Ireland and Irish "collaborators", who did not like to die on hunger and worked together with the British conquerors, thieves and murderers. Some people are not able to ask for forgiveness and others are not able to forgive. But as well Catholics and Protestants should be able to ask for forgiveness and should be able to forgive.

It's by the way very idiotic what the modern history books write about the tyrant Cromwell. This man was a monster and not an hero. His idea "to unite" the Protestants of Europe "under" England was for example more than only stupid. In the middle of Europe the Swedes united the Protestants against the Catholics in those days. World war 2 was a Sunday afternoon walk compared with this most cruel 30 years war (1618-1648). 50% to 2/3 of all Germans were murdered in this war. It was by the way the only "religious" war in the history of Germany. This war is today absolutely without any negative effect on all relations between Protestants and Catholics in Germany. It's a shame for all Christians that this war had happened, that's all.

Whatever now will happen - no one should forget that England and Ireland will still be neighbors in 800 years too. So I hope for a good solution.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

There is no win-win solution it seems. Either the British put their strict border on the land or give Northern Ireland special customs status with a strict border on the sea.
I have read that during the Troubles there was an idea in the British govrrnment to give Northern Ireland a status of dominion. Maybe this idea isnt so bad in the long run.

I think most of the UK would be grateful to see the back of Ulster.
But the sea border is anathema to the proddys. They see their Britishness as paramount and will not accept a border of any sort. I doubt that they would accept dominion status either but its an interesting thought and more innovative than any other idea Ive seen.
It might hit a snag with the hardcore brexiteers this side of the Irish Sea. Their whole thing is Rule Britannia and they would be loathe to give an inch on that.

All depends on demographics. According to the Good Friday Agreement the question of possible status of Northern Ireland may be decided through a referenda. As far as I am aware the demographics arent in the Protestants' favour and it is obvious that the Catholics wont miss this chance. So, the change of N Ireland's status is unavoidable in the future it seems. The Protestants will have to accept that or move from there. But that is the case of more distant future. In the case of Brexit my bet is that UK will choose an open land border even at the cost of feelings of unionists. Otherwise Ireland will veto the agreement.

The conflict in Ireland has nothing to do with Protestants or Catholics. As far as I know it has to do with the English aggressions in Ireland and Irish "collaborators", who did not like to die on hunger and worked together with the British conquerors, thieves and murderers. Some people are not able to ask for forgiveness and others are not able to forgive. But as well Catholics and Protestants should be able to ask for forgiveness and should be able to forgive.

It's by the way very idiotic what the modern history books write about the tyrant Cromwell. This man was a monster and not an hero. His idea "to unite" the Protestants of Europe "under" England was for example more than only stupid. In the middle of Europe the Swedes united the Protestants against the Catholics in those days. World war 2 was a Sunday afternoon walk compared with this most cruel 30 years war (1618-1648). 50% to 2/3 of all Germans were murdered in this war. It was by the way the only "religious" war in the history of Germany. This war is today absolutely without any negative effect on all relations between Protestants and Catholics in Germany. It's a shame for all Christians that this war had happened, that's all.

Whatever now will happen - no one should forget that England and Ireland will still be neighbors in 800 years too. So I hope for a good solution.

The root of it is English meddling. They imported a large group of Scottish Protestants into Ulster. They have generally seen catholics as the devils children and they were discriminated against for decades in the north. Both sides think that they have done the compromise thing through the Good Friday Agreement. I dont think either side will budge an inch.

 

[xyz]

Support for Brexit plummets in Northern Ireland, with 69% backing remain

Sort this one out Mrs May.

Well obviously another Brexit vote would be a good idea, although I don't think the current UK Parliament would vote for it.

If Brexit does happen next March, then there will eventually be new elections for the parliament of Northern Ireland at some point, and there could be a vote to leave the UK, in particular if the economy goes down. There is a chance that would happen in Scotland as well.

 

[zaangalewa]

There is no win-win solution it seems. Either the British put their strict border on the land or give Northern Ireland special customs status with a strict border on the sea.
I have read that during the Troubles there was an idea in the British govrrnment to give Northern Ireland a status of dominion. Maybe this idea isnt so bad in the long run.

I think most of the UK would be grateful to see the back of Ulster.
But the sea border is anathema to the proddys. They see their Britishness as paramount and will not accept a border of any sort. I doubt that they would accept dominion status either but its an interesting thought and more innovative than any other idea Ive seen.
It might hit a snag with the hardcore brexiteers this side of the Irish Sea. Their whole thing is Rule Britannia and they would be loathe to give an inch on that.

All depends on demographics. According to the Good Friday Agreement the question of possible status of Northern Ireland may be decided through a referenda. As far as I am aware the demographics arent in the Protestants' favour and it is obvious that the Catholics wont miss this chance. So, the change of N Ireland's status is unavoidable in the future it seems. The Protestants will have to accept that or move from there. But that is the case of more distant future. In the case of Brexit my bet is that UK will choose an open land border even at the cost of feelings of unionists. Otherwise Ireland will veto the agreement.

The conflict in Ireland has nothing to do with Protestants or Catholics. As far as I know it has to do with the English aggressions in Ireland and Irish "collaborators", who did not like to die on hunger and worked together with the British conquerors, thieves and murderers. Some people are not able to ask for forgiveness and others are not able to forgive. But as well Catholics and Protestants should be able to ask for forgiveness and should be able to forgive.

It's by the way very idiotic what the modern history books write about the tyrant Cromwell. This man was a monster and not an hero. His idea "to unite" the Protestants of Europe "under" England was for example more than only stupid. In the middle of Europe the Swedes united the Protestants against the Catholics in those days. World war 2 was a Sunday afternoon walk compared with this most cruel 30 years war (1618-1648). 50% to 2/3 of all Germans were murdered in this war. It was by the way the only "religious" war in the history of Germany. This war is today absolutely without any negative effect on all relations between Protestants and Catholics in Germany. It's a shame for all Christians that this war had happened, that's all.

Whatever now will happen - no one should forget that England and Ireland will still be neighbors in 800 years too. So I hope for a good solution.

The root of it is English meddling. They imported a large group of Scottish Protestants into Ulster. They have generally seen catholics as the devils children and they were discriminated against for decades in the north. Both sides think that they have done the compromise thing through the Good Friday Agreement. I dont think either side will budge an inch.

So no one likes to go only a little step in any direction where the other one seems to be - and what means this? What will happen in this case?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

There is no win-win solution it seems. Either the British put their strict border on the land or give Northern Ireland special customs status with a strict border on the sea.
I have read that during the Troubles there was an idea in the British govrrnment to give Northern Ireland a status of dominion. Maybe this idea isnt so bad in the long run.

I think most of the UK would be grateful to see the back of Ulster.
But the sea border is anathema to the proddys. They see their Britishness as paramount and will not accept a border of any sort. I doubt that they would accept dominion status either but its an interesting thought and more innovative than any other idea Ive seen.
It might hit a snag with the hardcore brexiteers this side of the Irish Sea. Their whole thing is Rule Britannia and they would be loathe to give an inch on that.

All depends on demographics. According to the Good Friday Agreement the question of possible status of Northern Ireland may be decided through a referenda. As far as I am aware the demographics arent in the Protestants' favour and it is obvious that the Catholics wont miss this chance. So, the change of N Ireland's status is unavoidable in the future it seems. The Protestants will have to accept that or move from there. But that is the case of more distant future. In the case of Brexit my bet is that UK will choose an open land border even at the cost of feelings of unionists. Otherwise Ireland will veto the agreement.

The conflict in Ireland has nothing to do with Protestants or Catholics. As far as I know it has to do with the English aggressions in Ireland and Irish "collaborators", who did not like to die on hunger and worked together with the British conquerors, thieves and murderers. Some people are not able to ask for forgiveness and others are not able to forgive. But as well Catholics and Protestants should be able to ask for forgiveness and should be able to forgive.

It's by the way very idiotic what the modern history books write about the tyrant Cromwell. This man was a monster and not an hero. His idea "to unite" the Protestants of Europe "under" England was for example more than only stupid. In the middle of Europe the Swedes united the Protestants against the Catholics in those days. World war 2 was a Sunday afternoon walk compared with this most cruel 30 years war (1618-1648). 50% to 2/3 of all Germans were murdered in this war. It was by the way the only "religious" war in the history of Germany. This war is today absolutely without any negative effect on all relations between Protestants and Catholics in Germany. It's a shame for all Christians that this war had happened, that's all.

Whatever now will happen - no one should forget that England and Ireland will still be neighbors in 800 years too. So I hope for a good solution.

The root of it is English meddling. They imported a large group of Scottish Protestants into Ulster. They have generally seen catholics as the devils children and they were discriminated against for decades in the north. Both sides think that they have done the compromise thing through the Good Friday Agreement. I dont think either side will budge an inch.

So no one likes to go only a little step in any direction where the other one seems to be - and what means this? What will happen in this case?

They will go back to killing each other. Both sides gave up things for peace 20 years ago. Both sides feel they have given enough.