CDZ The Iranian nuclear deal: a deeper look

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by PhilosphyBeforeParty, Jul 18, 2015.

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Do you think that the deal was beneficial overall?

  1. Yes

    6 vote(s)
    33.3%
  2. No

    12 vote(s)
    66.7%
  1. irosie91
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    irosie91 Diamond Member

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    I read the deal and I know recent history. I even know past history
     
  2. PhilosphyBeforeParty
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    PhilosphyBeforeParty Senior Member

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    then you are ignoring both.
     
  3. irosie91
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    irosie91 Diamond Member

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    nope------I am paying close attention
     
  4. PhilosphyBeforeParty
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    PhilosphyBeforeParty Senior Member

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    then please explain to me where you are getting these Ideas.
     
  5. RoccoR
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    RoccoR Gold Member

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    PhilosphyBeforeParty, et al,

    I don't think that it is very easy to discuss or understand Iran's vision for the future; or it's goals and objectives that drive it's strategy. Part of the reason is that Western power brokers do not grasp the Iranian methods of operation (politically, economically, diplomatically and militarily), nor do Western power brokers understand how the Iranians prioritize their wants and needs relative to what they are willing to sacrifice towards attaining their goals and objectives.

    And additionally, the Western World, as well as the Far East, do not have a grasp of the moral imperatives the Iranians hold, or what value (if any) they place on honesty, integrity, and social obligations. Iran is an Islamic Republic for which most westerners have little understanding on how a theocratic state (Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, essential the Sovereign) interfaces with the executive government, the justice system, the human rights and laws of the nation. (Example: Stoning is the principle execution method women accused of committing adultery --- after torture, and beatings.) Yet such a crime and penalty is seldom applied to the males for the same activity.

    The legal system has systematically been brought into the sphere of religion (desecularized) with the judges of all the courts required to be knowledgeable in Shia jurisprudence; Shia Islam being the official state religion; and all the key judicial officers must be Shia Mujtahids.

    (COMMENT)

    Much of the international community would assess Iran as holding essentially a defensive posture and having adopted a strategy which has four dominant characteristics: deter by geography, protect with defensive forces, and engage in complex diplomatic maneuvers. Iran wants to refine its strategy in such a way as to move towards being a regional (Persian Gulf) influence; while at the same time not trigger an adverse diplomatic or military response from the Western Powers (in particularly the US).

    The current US Administration is a long ways from understanding what an Ayatollah thinks is a productive diplomatic posture. Thus it is unable to accurately forecast current and future intentions. However, there have been some objectives that have been identified simply because Iranian actions have disclosed them. I think that
    • Becoming the dominant Military force in the Persian Gulf.
    • Becoming a major Military influence in Arabian Sea and Indian Ocean.
    • Becoming a greater influence in the Gulf of Aden and the Red Sea.
    I tend to think that some of IROSIE91's observations are not quite as remote as you have suggested. The first step to gaining influence, is to be seen with those with influence.

    Russia, Iran Seen Coordinating on Defense of Assad Regime in Syria
    Wall Street Journal By JAY SOLOMON in Washington and SAM DAGHER in Amman, Jordan

    Russia and Iran have stepped up coordination inside Syria as they move to safeguard President Bashar al-Assad’s control over his coastal stronghold, according to officials in the U.S. and Middle East, creating a new complication for Washington’s diplomatic goals.

    Senior Russian and Iranian diplomats, generals and strategists have held a string of high-level talks in Moscow in recent months to discuss Mr. Assad’s defense and the Kremlin’s military buildup in Syria, according to these officials.
    We all know and understand that Iran has many fingers in many aspects of Middle Eastern Politics; including in the Egyptian Sinai, Gaza, Lebanon and Syria. It is already a aspiring influence in these unfolding dramas.

    Most Respectfully,
    R
     
  6. irosie91
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    irosie91 Diamond Member

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    what "ideas"? I am probably a bit luckier than are you-------I have had close
    relationships with LOTS OF PEOPLE ------right here in the USA -------way back in the mid 60s I encountered IRANIAN IMMIGRANTS-----and---Syrian immigrants to the USA The Iranian immigrants back then were jewish teens-----being sent out by their parents ------to save them from ISLAMICISM -----growing way back then in Iran. I also got to know SYRIAN CHRISTIANS ----way back in the 60s ----and Lebanese----escaping the stink of islamicism --------feel free to ask questions
     
  7. PhilosphyBeforeParty
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    PhilosphyBeforeParty Senior Member

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    you still do not explain why you are against the deal.
     
  8. PhilosphyBeforeParty
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    PhilosphyBeforeParty Senior Member

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    Yes there is social injustice in Iran and yes Iran is a general mischief maker in the middle east, but that is precisely why I support the deal. I believe that this pattern can and will be reversed by it. I wont fully explain why because it would take too long and I would be mostly repeating myself, but I will answer any specific questions you have.
     
  9. irosie91
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    irosie91 Diamond Member

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    simple----I do not trust the Irnanians----take this thing out of CDZ and
    I will explain. I have known ruling Iran. Take this out of CDZ and I
    will explain what I do know about the Iranians ruling Iran from Iranians
    in the USA
     
  10. PhilosphyBeforeParty
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    PhilosphyBeforeParty Senior Member

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    ...except that we do not need to trust Iran. the inspections are more than sufficient.
     

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