The Innocence project

[Ravi]

I struggle with this issue as well...Some psychopaths may actually rationalize committing a heinous crime knowing they'll get the death penalty as an easy out...But if you could demonstrate that it is an effective deterrent wouldn't you change your mind and think that some of the most heinous crimes do warrant capital punishment...?

No, I wouldn't change my mind.

So, it's just that the matter of life and death should only be in God's hands and we as a society should not play God because ultimately human redemption is up to Him?

Or you just think it's not governments role to take a life irrespective of redemption, you'd just rather let heinous criminals live with what they did and suffer the consequences of incarceration for life because you don't feel comfortable giving government that power?

I understand past false convictions should give us all pause, but now that we have DNA technology and the ability to be certain, I am personally less uncomfortable with our society putting our most heinous criminals to death...




Anyway, this is actually another subject for another thread...But since you are the OP, I won't feel too bad for going off track...

Don't worry, it isn't an executable crime.

I don't think it is the governments job to take life.

DNA isn't 100%, anyway, when it comes to "proving" guilt.

 

[Ravi]

Because society didn't put them there. That particular judicial branch and DA did.

I disagree...society did put them there if they were innocent.

But that wasn't what I was asking. Why the sliding scale for the completely innocent person? Surely no one, even with a string of lesser crimes, should be sentenced for a rape they did not commit.

Because someone who is constantly in trouble with the law will spend a great amount of their time in jail anyway. Why compensate them for something they were doing and going to be doing anyway. A completely innocent person however, who had no criminal record, was employed or going to school to better themselves on the other hand I feel deserve far more compensation for their loss.

I see what you're saying but I still disagree. There is no way of knowing at what point someone would have turned his life around at.

 

[Sheldon]

The DP does not deter anyone from committing murder (other than the one being killed, I can guarantee you they will not murder again) because of the poor way it is used. Anytime there is such a lengthy time for the sentence to be carried out whatever effect of deterence is lost. That being said, as in Kats situation, where there is no doubt that the person committed the crime I feel the DP is appropriate. The State is indeed taking away the criminals right to life but didn't they make that choice for someone else? Didn't they decide that a few bucks were worth more than the person they killed? I feel very much that if a criminal ignores the rights of someone else then after he or she has been convicted of that crime why the hell should we care about them? They have shown they don't care about anyone else so why should we extend the courtesy and decency they denied others?

That's all based on the assumption that the right person is being convicted. The ability to execute/murder its own citizens is the biggest form of big government; it's not a power I've ever been comfortable with them having. It's an imperfect system, and death is final.

While this is true, the death of a very good, kind, productive woman (in the case I posted) was final as well. I don't think big government had a thing to do with his conviction. He confessed, and even if he had not, they had ample proof.

DP as a deterrent may not work, mainly because ''they'' don't care, as they know they won't actually get death. They will sit in a cell..being provided for BY the very family that lost their loved one.

The guy that murdered my brother's wife's mother should have been executed years ago now.

The appeals process is insane. I think that's the main reason why capital punishment is so expensive.

Just from my uninformed perspective, I think I'd rather die than spend the next sixty or however many years in prison. But I can understand why life in prison could be dissatisfying for the victim's family.

 

[Modbert]

For those who are in favor of the death penalty, did any bother to read the link I posted earlier from the American Law Institute? The same group that helped shape the modern day laws we have on the death penalty have now walked away from it saying that the system is too broken to be fixed. The magnitude of how big that is on this issue is large.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

schreck was and is a great lawyer. but how do you define good? cochrane got his client exonerated, yes?

(although i do think schreck was instrumental in turning the jury on the blood evidence issue).

It was a long time ago.
I dont think the jury cared about the evidence, they saw
Mark Fuhrman was guilty of being a racist and the trial was over.

mark fuhrman was a racist who didn't log in the blood evidence for HOURS. That was the killer combo. and the terrible job the prosecution left them without proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

It was not JUST fuhrman. His partner a veteran detective with 18 years service carried a vial of OJ's blood to the crime scene in his pocket and kept it all day. And miraculously the Cops found more blood evidence. The glove was supposedly dropped by accident yet Fuhrman said he found it UNDER an air conditioning unit. The cops ILLEGALLY searched OJ's property 2 times. Once without a warrant and once by LYING to a Judge for a warrant. The first time they claimed they were worried OJ may be dead or hurt, yet when they woke his Daughter to search her living area they specifically ask her for his shoes.

The lab that did all the work ADMITTED that on two occasions they spattered OJ and his wife's blood on evidence by accident. And had a long history of poor and shoddy work.

Fuhrman had a PERSONAL history with OJ. Which he covered up until the Defense brought it up.

To many things were wrong with the evidence, its handling and the inept police and prosecutors involved. All REASONABLE DOUBT.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

For those who are in favor of the death penalty, did any bother to read the link I posted earlier from the American Law Institute? The same group that helped shape the modern day laws we have on the death penalty have now walked away from it saying that the system is too broken to be fixed. The magnitude of how big that is on this issue is large.

An Institute full of Liberals is opposed to the Death Penalty? My now that is earth shattering news indeed.

I will repeat my question.... If the Government has no Death Penalty what do we do with killers that continue to murder other inmates and Guards?

 

[Ravi]

Let's not let OJ fuck up a reasonable discussion, otay RGS?

 

[Modbert]

An Institute full of Liberals is opposed to the Death Penalty? My now that is earth shattering news indeed.

I will repeat my question.... If the Government has no Death Penalty what do we do with killers that continue to murder other inmates and Guards?

An institute of Liberals? Link?

Also, did you not see my previous posts? You really don't have any reading comprehension.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

An Institute full of Liberals is opposed to the Death Penalty? My now that is earth shattering news indeed.

I will repeat my question.... If the Government has no Death Penalty what do we do with killers that continue to murder other inmates and Guards?

An institute of Liberals? Link?

Also, did you not see my previous posts? You really don't have any reading comprehension.

You are opposed to the Death Penalty, right? So what happens when a convicted killer doing life in Prison continues to murder other prisoners and Guards?

Link to the fact that the vast majority of Lawyers are Liberal? What world do you live in?

 

[Modbert]

You are opposed to the Death Penalty, right? So what happens when a convicted killer doing life in Prison continues to murder other prisoners and Guards?

Link to the fact that the vast majority of Lawyers are Liberal? What world do you live in?

Link to the fact that the American Law Institute is just a bunch of Liberals. The American Law Institute membership is not limited to just Lawyers. You continue to show your ignorance on this issue.

As for your first question, I already answered it earlier, go back and look in the thread.

 

[Ravi]

An Institute full of Liberals is opposed to the Death Penalty? My now that is earth shattering news indeed.

I will repeat my question.... If the Government has no Death Penalty what do we do with killers that continue to murder other inmates and Guards?

An institute of Liberals? Link?

Also, did you not see my previous posts? You really don't have any reading comprehension.

You are opposed to the Death Penalty, right? So what happens when a convicted killer doing life in Prison continues to murder other prisoners and Guards?

Link to the fact that the vast majority of Lawyers are Liberal? What world do you live in?

Link to a majority of convicted murderers continuing to murder guards and other prisoners.

You really are feeble, aren't you?

 

[Modbert]

Link to a majority of convicted murderers continuing to murder guards and other prisoners.

You really are feeble, aren't you?

I'd like to see any statistics at all about this issue that RGS seems to think is destroying our prison system.

 

[westwall]

For those who are in favor of the death penalty, did any bother to read the link I posted earlier from the American Law Institute? The same group that helped shape the modern day laws we have on the death penalty have now walked away from it saying that the system is too broken to be fixed. The magnitude of how big that is on this issue is large.

An Institute full of Liberals is opposed to the Death Penalty? My now that is earth shattering news indeed.

I will repeat my question.... If the Government has no Death Penalty what do we do with killers that continue to murder other inmates and Guards?

Even if they were it does not alter their findings. The system is terribly broken as evidenced by how many innocent people have been found. You can't argue that away dude. We have a legal system not a justice system. That is a problem. So long as you have vermin like Mike Nifong willing to destroy the lives of people for their political gain it is a major issue. I don't care who brings the information so long as it's accurate.

 

[westwall]

An Institute full of Liberals is opposed to the Death Penalty? My now that is earth shattering news indeed.

I will repeat my question.... If the Government has no Death Penalty what do we do with killers that continue to murder other inmates and Guards?

An institute of Liberals? Link?

Also, did you not see my previous posts? You really don't have any reading comprehension.

You are opposed to the Death Penalty, right? So what happens when a convicted killer doing life in Prison continues to murder other prisoners and Guards?

Link to the fact that the vast majority of Lawyers are Liberal? What world do you live in?

This happens very rarely in general. I have friends who work in the California DOC and one even works on Death Row in San Quentin. He tells me that those inmates are the most dangerous because they have absolutely nothing to lose and lots of time on their hands to make things happen.

 

[MikeK]

Right...but what should we give them? Seriously, I've known people that IMO were wrongly convicted.

Any innocent person punished is one too many.

For one thing they should be given enough money to enable them and those who suffered the loss of them enough money to live the balance of their lives in complete luxury and want for nothing.

Then the individual who was wrongly convicted should be interviewed by experienced criminal lawyers to determine where primary responsibliity for the error lies and that should be addressed. Mistakes are one thing, lies are another. And an effort should be made to determine if there were any lies or fabricated evidence involved in the conviction.

This man, Dupree, will file a lawsuit and he will be compensated, but there is a problem in that rarely if ever is an earnest effort made to determine the primary reason for the false conviction. Very often the blame lies with apathetic, eager-beaver prosecutors and/or mendacious cops whose main concern is either clearing their caseloads or securing "good collars" on their performance evaluations.

Fortunately the majority of cops and prosecutors are above such despicable conduct but there are those who wouldn't hesitate to prosecute on a questionable charge or to punish an innocent person. It happens a lot more than the average person might think.

 

[MikeK]

41 people in 10 years, out of HOW many people?

Nothing in life is perfect.

Don't fail to consider that those 41 are the ones we know about because an effort has been made to prove their innocence.

 

[MikeK]

I tend to not hang around where there's trouble - I'm smart like that.

You have a solution that guarantees 100% perfection? Thought not.

Of course there is no way to ensure that mistakes will never be made. But a motivated effort to determine the cause of false convictions will discourage false testimony, questionable evidence and careless prosecutions in the future.

 

[Synthaholic]

Do any of you that oppose the death penalty think there may ever be a case where there should be death?
What is someone confesses to a heinous murder?

Case in point:

My brother's wife. Approximately 10 years ago his wife's sister's ex boyfriend went to their mom's house. The mother of course knew him, and let him in. She was a tiny 80 pound woman. As soon as he got in the door, he punched her in the face. He proceeded to beat her all over the house..with his fists and a hammer, splattering the walls and floor with her blood, beating her to death. Why? He wanted drug money.
Brother's wife found her later that night.

He confessed to the crime..gave details of how it all took place, and of course there was DNA.

He is on death row now, and has been for several years, while my brother's wife - her dad - other siblings are left STILL trying to deal with her death. Especially my brother's wife. It did something to her that I doubt she will ever get over.

This is merely a case for ''life in prison''?????? Why should he live? Give me one good reason.

I can't, unless he is mentally deficient. And by that I don't mean dumb.

As long as the evidence is overwhelming, including DNA that has been handled properly and without controversy, then he should be executed post haste. I do not favor spending money to feed, house, and medically treat murderers - not people who kill, but murderers.

The confession I see as icing on the cake of all the quality evidence. It's not a substitute for evidence.

 

[MikeK]

No, society as a whole doesn't owe them anything.

In the final analysis, it does.

We collectively support the very existence of our respective criminal justice systems. They belong to us so we are ultimately responsible for what they do, which is why it is our tax money which is distributed to those who are injured by them.

The particular DA or judicial department I would think does however.

Actually, unless some clear evidence of deliberate malfeasance exists the prosecutor in a wrongful convicion is held blameless -- except in his (her) performance evaluation.

The problem is how do you repay someone for the loss of a significant part of their lives?

We can't. But basic morality and human ethics demands that a sincere and substantive effort is made to demonstrate remorse through material compensation. But I believe a greater effort should be made to determine the primary cause of a wrongful prosecution.

I would certainly rate it on a sliding scale with a completely innocent person who had never been in trouble with the law getting a considerable amount over some person who was constantly in trouble with the law.

I'm sure such factors are considered by jurors in civil litigations.