The Individual Mandate will be the Problem that Justifies Single Payer

[Procrustes Stretched]

this has got to be one of the craziest mutha fuckin' threads in ages. all this crazy talk about the government managing health care. what we need is a government or non profit health INSURANCE option.

there is NO legitimate reason to have a for profit health insurance industry.

plus I've never heard of anyone opting out of medicare...medicaid because it was bad. on the contrary many a person with inafequate private insurance wishes they had the options of a government paid insurance plan

 

[AVG-JOE]

Yeah letting people make their own choices is bad or them.

So we should have the government telling us exactly what kind of insurance to buy and then we should let the government be the one and only insurance provider because we all know the government is so good and wonderful and can manage our health better than we can.

After that we can let the benevolent government be the only financial institution and we can be told how much we have to spend or save because the government knows better how we should handle our money than we do.

Then we can let the government be the only auto maker in the country because we can't be trusted to drive the right kind of cars

And finally we can let the government run all the supermarkets because we are too fucking stupid and eat things that are bad for us.

Oh great and powerful government protect us from ourselves.

What's the difference between an insurance executive 'managing your health care' and a government bureaucrat 'managing your health care'?

I mean aside from the 3/4 of a million in salary difference and the deciding coverage based on rules instead of short term profit needs difference.

If the government would allow real competition between insurance companies, I'd be free to make that choice and find a company that provides what I need at a reasonable price.

Tell me if government takes over the life insurance industry next and you are forced to buy a policy at inflated prices so as to subsidize the premiums of a guy with terminal cancer because he can't be denied coverage, would you say the government plan is better that the private life insurance plan?

No. I will be the first to admit that the government plan that passed the senate is a piece of shit created by feeding politicians money.

On the other hand, it is a step in the right direction. Social Security is still a good comparison - it is a retirement and disability safety net. It was never designed to keep anyone in the style of living they've become accustomed to in the event of disability or when you retire.

In 100 years, our children will look back on the turn of the last century and wonder what the fuss was all about because this piece of shit bill will have morphed in 100 working years of trial and error.

The best thing we can do is to talk honestly about its effect on us and vote.

 

[AVG-JOE]

this has got to be one of the craziest mutha fuckin' threads in ages. all this crazy talk about the government managing health care. what we need is a government or non profit health INSURANCE option.

there is NO legitimate reason to have a for profit health insurance industry.

plus I've never heard of anyone opting out of medicare...medicaid because it was bad. on the contrary many a person with inafequate private insurance wishes they had the options of a government paid insurance plan

For the love of ( insert your preferred Deity here )!

It is not about the government managing healthcare!

It's about the government running a bureaucracy to track premiums paid in and benefits paid out.

 

[Zona]

I hope you're right. But I doubt it. With the insurance lobby controlling so many in Congress, I don't see us ever having single-payer.

Shame.

i hope you are wrong. i hope this bill being passed now is secretly designed to get us a single payer option.

 

[jeffrockit]

indeed jeffrockit....

we either need health insurance with less (little to no) government involvement or go all out single payer and destroy the private insurance companies. anything else fucks over the people.

Yeah letting people make their own choices is bad or them.

So we should have the government telling us exactly what kind of insurance to buy and then we should let the government be the one and only insurance provider because we all know the government is so good and wonderful and can manage our health better than we can.

After that we can let the benevolent government be the only financial institution and we can be told how much we have to spend or save because the government knows better how we should handle our money than we do.

Then we can let the government be the only auto maker in the country because we can't be trusted to drive the right kind of cars

And finally we can let the government run all the supermarkets because we are too fucking stupid and eat things that are bad for us.

Oh great and powerful government protect us from ourselves.

What's the difference between an insurance executive 'managing your health care' and a government bureaucrat 'managing your health care'?

I mean aside from the 3/4 of a million in salary difference and the deciding coverage based on rules instead of short term profit needs difference.

Because the govt does not have to make a profit, they will care even less what we have to go through. Profit based at least gives an incentive for the company to please the customer.
A recent study showed that school (govt) lunches had a higher percentage of causing illness than the evil for profit fast food entities. In order to make that horrid profit, they have to provide what the customer wants. If the consumer continues to get ill at the private food businesses, they will take their money elsewhere. Not true with the govt. Following that line of thinking, single payer (govt) insurance will be pretty bad for almost all who are on it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

this has got to be one of the craziest mutha fuckin' threads in ages. all this crazy talk about the government managing health care. what we need is a government or non profit health INSURANCE option.

there is NO legitimate reason to have a for profit health insurance industry.

plus I've never heard of anyone opting out of medicare...medicaid because it was bad. on the contrary many a person with inafequate private insurance wishes they had the options of a government paid insurance plan

You can't opt out of Medicare because you will lose your Social Security benefits

 

[Skull Pilot]

What's the difference between an insurance executive 'managing your health care' and a government bureaucrat 'managing your health care'?

I mean aside from the 3/4 of a million in salary difference and the deciding coverage based on rules instead of short term profit needs difference.

If the government would allow real competition between insurance companies, I'd be free to make that choice and find a company that provides what I need at a reasonable price.

Tell me if government takes over the life insurance industry next and you are forced to buy a policy at inflated prices so as to subsidize the premiums of a guy with terminal cancer because he can't be denied coverage, would you say the government plan is better that the private life insurance plan?

No. I will be the first to admit that the government plan that passed the senate is a piece of shit created by feeding politicians money.

On the other hand, it is a step in the right direction. Social Security is still a good comparison - it is a retirement and disability safety net. It was never designed to keep anyone in the style of living they've become accustomed to in the event of disability or when you retire.

In 100 years, our children will look back on the turn of the last century and wonder what the fuss was all about because this piece of shit bill will have morphed in 100 working years of trial and error.

The best thing we can do is to talk honestly about its effect on us and vote.

Social Security is the biggest Ponzi scam on the planet. It makes Bernie Madoff look like an amateur.

I've given examples many times that show if we were allowed to keep that 15% of our income that the government uses as a slush fund in privately owned accounts that we would all be able to buy a better privately owned disability insurance than the government provides and be able to retire as multi millionaires.

 

[Joe Steel]

If the banks, the auto companies and the supermarkets failed to provide what we needed at reasonable prices, yes. We should establish government alternatives.

So you want to eat government cheese the rest of your life?

Imagine walking into a super market and only being able to buy what the government has deemed as "good for you" foods. Then we would get to pay additional taxes so as to subsidize those people who can't afford "good for you" foods and our grocery bill would double or triple just as our insurance premiums will.

But hey so called progressives would love that. After all they are smarter than all of us right?

Imagine going into the store and walking out empty handed because everything was too expensive for you. I don't think that's too far-fetched. It happens everyday to millions of Americans. The rest of us feel we have an obligation to them as a matter of public policy. If it raises your costs, too bad. That's the price you pay for living here.

 

[Joe Steel]

What's the difference between an insurance executive 'managing your health care' and a government bureaucrat 'managing your health care'?

I mean aside from the 3/4 of a million in salary difference and the deciding coverage based on rules instead of short term profit needs difference.

If the government would allow real competition between insurance companies, I'd be free to make that choice and find a company that provides what I need at a reasonable price.

Probably not. Health care isn't a market good. Providers always will raise the price to a point far above what consumers reasonably can pay because they know the alternative to paying the price can be death. That's a bad idea if you want to use markets as part of public policy.

Tell me if government takes over the life insurance industry next and you are forced to buy a policy at inflated prices so as to subsidize the premiums of a guy with terminal cancer because he can't be denied coverage, would you say the government plan is better that the private life insurance plan?

Better to subsidize his cancer care than some empty suit's Mercedes and ski chalet.

 

[Joe Steel]

When they get ready to push for the single payer plan, they will tell Americans that The Health Care Act of 2009 was the responsibility of Republicans (never mind that no Republicans voted for it) and tell us that now they will fix it for us.

Immie

It wasn't just the Republicans. It was the stupidity of all the misfits and malcontents of the conservative spectrum and the pandering of hacks like Beck and Hannity. They know stupidity sells and they're always ready to make a buck.

 

[chanel]

And yet we are supposed to ubsidize the guy who bought a Mercedes on a 50K salary, but claims he couldn't afford health insurance for his family? Sorry Joe - I'm tired of supporting people who live beyond their means. And that's prob. 25 mil out of the 30.

 

[Skull Pilot]

If the banks, the auto companies and the supermarkets failed to provide what we needed at reasonable prices, yes. We should establish government alternatives.

So you want to eat government cheese the rest of your life?

Imagine walking into a super market and only being able to buy what the government has deemed as "good for you" foods. Then we would get to pay additional taxes so as to subsidize those people who can't afford "good for you" foods and our grocery bill would double or triple just as our insurance premiums will.

But hey so called progressives would love that. After all they are smarter than all of us right?

Imagine going into the store and walking out empty handed because everything was too expensive for you. I don't think that's too far-fetched. It happens everyday to millions of Americans. The rest of us feel we have an obligation to them as a matter of public policy. If it raises your costs, too bad. That's the price you pay for living here.

I don't have to imagine that

Cap and trade will raise the prices of absolutely everything.

 

[Skull Pilot]

What's the difference between an insurance executive 'managing your health care' and a government bureaucrat 'managing your health care'?

I mean aside from the 3/4 of a million in salary difference and the deciding coverage based on rules instead of short term profit needs difference.

If the government would allow real competition between insurance companies, I'd be free to make that choice and find a company that provides what I need at a reasonable price.

Probably not. Health care isn't a market good. Providers always will raise the price to a point far above what consumers reasonably can pay because they know the alternative to paying the price can be death. That's a bad idea if you want to use markets as part of public policy.

Tell me if government takes over the life insurance industry next and you are forced to buy a policy at inflated prices so as to subsidize the premiums of a guy with terminal cancer because he can't be denied coverage, would you say the government plan is better that the private life insurance plan?

Better to subsidize his cancer care than some empty suit's Mercedes and ski chalet.

read the question. The example was life insurance not health insurance

 

[The T]

So you want to eat government cheese the rest of your life?

Imagine walking into a super market and only being able to buy what the government has deemed as "good for you" foods. Then we would get to pay additional taxes so as to subsidize those people who can't afford "good for you" foods and our grocery bill would double or triple just as our insurance premiums will.

But hey so called progressives would love that. After all they are smarter than all of us right?

Imagine going into the store and walking out empty handed because everything was too expensive for you. I don't think that's too far-fetched. It happens everyday to millions of Americans. The rest of us feel we have an obligation to them as a matter of public policy. If it raises your costs, too bad. That's the price you pay for living here.

I don't have to imagine that

Cap and trade will raise the prices of absolutely everything.

Yep. And all based upon a faulty premise to boot.

 

[The T]

And yet we are supposed to ubsidize the guy who bought a Mercedes on a 50K salary, but claims he couldn't afford health insurance for his family? Sorry Joe - I'm tired of supporting people who live beyond their means. And that's prob. 25 mil out of the 30.

Exactly. Seems the priorities of most are screwed up, eh?

 

[Joe Steel]

And yet we are supposed to (s)ubsidize the guy who bought a Mercedes on a 50K salary, but claims he couldn't afford health insurance for his family? Sorry Joe - I'm tired of supporting people who live beyond their means. And that's prob. 25 mil out of the 30.

I doubt this happens much but even if it does, we can't let it be the reason we don't provide care to those who need it. If it gets to be too big a problem, we'll just have to find a way to eliminate it.

 

[Joe Steel]

Imagine going into the store and walking out empty handed because everything was too expensive for you. I don't think that's too far-fetched. It happens everyday to millions of Americans. The rest of us feel we have an obligation to them as a matter of public policy. If it raises your costs, too bad. That's the price you pay for living here.

I don't have to imagine that

Cap and trade will raise the prices of absolutely everything.

So will anthropogenic global warming. In the long-run, it's probably a wash.

 

[Old Rocks]

The Individual Mandate will be the Problem that Justifies Single Payer

Forcing People through Penalty of Law to have Health Insurance will Eventually Lead to Cries from the Oppressed Masses for the "Single Payer" that is Currently Unpassable.

This is by Design... It is what being "Progressive" is ALL about. They will get their "Single Payer" and they will do it by Rescuing People from a Law that they themselves Created.

And Fortunately for the DemocRATS, their Base, the only People who Support this, are too Ignorant to Realize that it will have been their Party who did this to them as they Offer "Single Payer" as the "Solution" to the "Problem".

This Painfully Predictable Path would be Entertaining if it wasn't so Tragic and Sad.

Stalin would be Proud.

Copyright ©2009 - americanfreepress.org/tha malcontent​

peace...

Macheaveli lives!

 

[Old Rocks]

No, we are supposed to provide health care for the single mother that is working for minimum wages. A single mother who may have achieved that status by marrying a man that was in the service and gave that last full measure of duty in Iraq or Afghanistan.

That is a much more valid picture than the one that Chanel gave.

 

[Old Rocks]

So you want to eat government cheese the rest of your life?

Imagine walking into a super market and only being able to buy what the government has deemed as "good for you" foods. Then we would get to pay additional taxes so as to subsidize those people who can't afford "good for you" foods and our grocery bill would double or triple just as our insurance premiums will.

But hey so called progressives would love that. After all they are smarter than all of us right?

Imagine going into the store and walking out empty handed because everything was too expensive for you. I don't think that's too far-fetched. It happens everyday to millions of Americans. The rest of us feel we have an obligation to them as a matter of public policy. If it raises your costs, too bad. That's the price you pay for living here.

I don't have to imagine that

Cap and trade will raise the prices of absolutely everything.

Higher than the price of a world that becomes unlivable for a good percentage of humanity?

Read the Stern report.

[ARCHIVED CONTENT] Stern Review Report