The Individual Mandate is only a 'pretend' law

[dblack]

So, it sounds like bullshit to me, but the apologists for Obamacare insist that the 'individual mandate' isn't a real law. Apparently there's language right there in the legislation that makes it null and void. That's right, the ACA doesn't actually 'force' anyone to buy insurance. In fact, they claim, the law specifically states that no legal action can be brought against anyone who refuses to comply. Now, if you believe that, I have an important investment opportunity I'd like to talk to you about. But for the time being, let's take them at their (likely spurious) word.

Clearly, the best strategy for all of us who aren't currently sick is to cancel our insurance as soon as the law takes effect. Take care of yourself out of pocket until you get seriously ill, and then sign up. Anything else would be idiotic. And you can do so without any repercussion.

Also, it's not a tax. Except when it is. And then, of course, it isn't.

"Look at the monkey. Look at the silly monkey!"

 

[manifold]

Let's not forget that Social Security is 'technically' optional. And if you opt out, they don't take it out of your paycheck.

 

[dblack]

Let's not forget that Social Security is 'technically' optional. And if you opt out, they don't take it out of your paycheck.

Some people just seem to be looking for the slimmest thread to hang on to hope that their guy isn't a corporate stooge like all the rest. Obama didn't really sell us out, see, you just have to read between the lines!

 

[RDD_1210]

So, it sounds like bullshit to me, but the apologists for Obamacare insist that the 'individual mandate' isn't a real law. Apparently there's language right there in the legislation that makes it null and void. That's right, the ACA doesn't actually 'force' anyone to buy insurance. In fact, they claim, the law specifically states that no legal action can be brought against anyone who refuses to comply. Now, if you believe that, I have an important investment opportunity I'd like to talk to you about. But for the time being, let's take them at their (likely spurious) word.

Clearly, the best strategy for all of us who aren't currently sick is to cancel our insurance as soon as the law takes effect. Take care of yourself out of pocket until you get seriously ill, and then sign up. Anything else would be idiotic. And you can do so without any repercussion.

Also, it's not a tax. Except when it is. And then, of course, it isn't.

"Look at the monkey. Look at the silly monkey!"

Nice plan, but flawed since you can only sign up during open enrollment periods. What happens when you become deathly ill and need to wait 11 months for the next enrollment period?

 

[RDD_1210]

Let's not forget that Social Security is 'technically' optional. And if you opt out, they don't take it out of your paycheck.

Some people just seem to be looking for the slimmest thread to hang on to hope that their guy isn't a corporate stooge like all the rest. Obama didn't really sell us out, see, you just have to read between the lines!

Oh he definitely is. Anyone who hands insurance companies 30+ million more customers is not anti-private insurance.

 

[dblack]

Nice plan, but flawed since you can only sign up during open enrollment periods.

I've heard that discussed as a remedy to scofflaws such as myself, but I don't believe it's in the current law. Are you sure?

 

[Wiseacre]

So, it sounds like bullshit to me, but the apologists for Obamacare insist that the 'individual mandate' isn't a real law. Apparently there's language right there in the legislation that makes it null and void. That's right, the ACA doesn't actually 'force' anyone to buy insurance. In fact, they claim, the law specifically states that no legal action can be brought against anyone who refuses to comply. Now, if you believe that, I have an important investment opportunity I'd like to talk to you about. But for the time being, let's take them at their (likely spurious) word.

Clearly, the best strategy for all of us who aren't currently sick is to cancel our insurance as soon as the law takes effect. Take care of yourself out of pocket until you get seriously ill, and then sign up. Anything else would be idiotic. And you can do so without any repercussion.

Also, it's not a tax. Except when it is. And then, of course, it isn't.

"Look at the monkey. Look at the silly monkey!"

Nice plan, but flawed since you can only sign up during open enrollment periods. What happens when you become deathly ill and need to wait 11 months for the next enrollment period?

You go to the ER of course. Like everyone else is going to do.

 

[RDD_1210]

Nice plan, but flawed since you can only sign up during open enrollment periods.

I've heard that discussed as a remedy to scofflaws such as myself, but I don't believe it's in the current law. Are you sure?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's still there. I'd have to go look it up again but it was there last time I checked. It makes sense to include it because people could try and game the system in the way you described. It's an easy solution to that.

 

[RDD_1210]

So, it sounds like bullshit to me, but the apologists for Obamacare insist that the 'individual mandate' isn't a real law. Apparently there's language right there in the legislation that makes it null and void. That's right, the ACA doesn't actually 'force' anyone to buy insurance. In fact, they claim, the law specifically states that no legal action can be brought against anyone who refuses to comply. Now, if you believe that, I have an important investment opportunity I'd like to talk to you about. But for the time being, let's take them at their (likely spurious) word.

Clearly, the best strategy for all of us who aren't currently sick is to cancel our insurance as soon as the law takes effect. Take care of yourself out of pocket until you get seriously ill, and then sign up. Anything else would be idiotic. And you can do so without any repercussion.

Also, it's not a tax. Except when it is. And then, of course, it isn't.

"Look at the monkey. Look at the silly monkey!"

Nice plan, but flawed since you can only sign up during open enrollment periods. What happens when you become deathly ill and need to wait 11 months for the next enrollment period?

You go to the ER of course. Like everyone else is going to do.

Thats the problem we had which was helping to cause this whole mess. That solves nothing. And an ER only stabilizes you, nothing more.

 

[auditor0007]

The easiest solution would be to simply shoot everyone who becomes sick. Then nobody needs to pay for health insurance.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So, it sounds like bullshit to me, but the apologists for Obamacare insist that the 'individual mandate' isn't a real law. Apparently there's language right there in the legislation that makes it null and void. That's right, the ACA doesn't actually 'force' anyone to buy insurance. In fact, they claim, the law specifically states that no legal action can be brought against anyone who refuses to comply. Now, if you believe that, I have an important investment opportunity I'd like to talk to you about. But for the time being, let's take them at their (likely spurious) word.

Clearly, the best strategy for all of us who aren't currently sick is to cancel our insurance as soon as the law takes effect. Take care of yourself out of pocket until you get seriously ill, and then sign up. Anything else would be idiotic. And you can do so without any repercussion.

Also, it's not a tax. Except when it is. And then, of course, it isn't.

"Look at the monkey. Look at the silly monkey!"

Nice plan, but flawed since you can only sign up during open enrollment periods. What happens when you become deathly ill and need to wait 11 months for the next enrollment period?

You get coverage anyway. Don't you understand anything about the government? How can they hold a person responsible for a bad decision when it is not illegal to not buy insurance?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Nice plan, but flawed since you can only sign up during open enrollment periods.

I've heard that discussed as a remedy to scofflaws such as myself, but I don't believe it's in the current law. Are you sure?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's still there. I'd have to go look it up again but it was there last time I checked. It makes sense to include it because people could try and game the system in the way you described. It's an easy solution to that.

And it works so well in Massachusetts, where it is actually illegal to do. The problem is that the fine they impose is less than the cost of the insurance, and the enrollment periods are quarterly. That means that, if worse comes to worse, you only have to hang on for a few weeks before you get coverage.

What makes you think that the open enrollments you think will prevent people from doing this will only be once a year?

 

[RDD_1210]

I've heard that discussed as a remedy to scofflaws such as myself, but I don't believe it's in the current law. Are you sure?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's still there. I'd have to go look it up again but it was there last time I checked. It makes sense to include it because people could try and game the system in the way you described. It's an easy solution to that.

And it works so well in Massachusetts, where it is actually illegal to do. The problem is that the fine they impose is less than the cost of the insurance, and the enrollment periods are quarterly. That means that, if worse comes to worse, you only have to hang on for a few weeks before you get coverage.

What makes you think that the open enrollments you think will prevent people from doing this will only be once a year?

So you suffer a heart attack or stroke and your idea is to just tough it out for a couple of weeks? You being serious?

 

[Greenbeard]

What makes you think that the open enrollments you think will prevent people from doing this will only be once a year?

The law, probably.

(6) ENROLLMENT PERIODS- The Secretary shall require an Exchange to provide for--
[...]
(B) annual open enrollment periods, as determined by the Secretary for calendar years after the initial enrollment period;​

Maybe the proposed exchange regs that came out Monday, too.

In paragraph (e), we propose an annual open enrollment period from October 15 through December 7 of each year, starting in October 2014 for coverage beginning January 1, 2015. As an alternative annual open enrollment period, we considered November 1 through December 15 of each year to provide a 45-day window close to the end of the year that would be easy to remember. We welcome comments regarding our proposed and alternative approach for the annual open enrollment period.​

If you have strong feelings, the time to comment is now.

 

[dblack]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's still there. I'd have to go look it up again but it was there last time I checked.

Actually, it's not there. And there's a reason for that. Once you start down that road, you're re-creating the same problem they were trying to avoid - the dreaded 'pre-existing' conditions dilemma. Telling someone they can't get health insurance for another year isn't much different than telling them they can't get it at all - especially in the emergency scenarios you're proposing.

But pretending we can legislate away the pre-existing conditions problem is a fantasy. Insurance simply can't work that like that. You wouldn't expect someone to sell you car insurance to retro-actively fix your car after it's been totalled - and we can't expect health insurance to work any differently. What we're trying to do is to create socialized health care and pretend it's something different. But in that senseless denial, we're only enriching the insurance companies willing to play along with our delusion.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's still there. I'd have to go look it up again but it was there last time I checked. It makes sense to include it because people could try and game the system in the way you described. It's an easy solution to that.

And it works so well in Massachusetts, where it is actually illegal to do. The problem is that the fine they impose is less than the cost of the insurance, and the enrollment periods are quarterly. That means that, if worse comes to worse, you only have to hang on for a few weeks before you get coverage.

What makes you think that the open enrollments you think will prevent people from doing this will only be once a year?

So you suffer a heart attack or stroke and your idea is to just tough it out for a couple of weeks? You being serious?

Emergency rooms will stabilize you, unless you are saying the law changes that.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What makes you think that the open enrollments you think will prevent people from doing this will only be once a year?

The law, probably.

(6) ENROLLMENT PERIODS- The Secretary shall require an Exchange to provide for--
[...]
(B) annual open enrollment periods, as determined by the Secretary for calendar years after the initial enrollment period;​

Maybe the proposed exchange regs that came out Monday, too.

In paragraph (e), we propose an annual open enrollment period from October 15 through December 7 of each year, starting in October 2014 for coverage beginning January 1, 2015. As an alternative annual open enrollment period, we considered November 1 through December 15 of each year to provide a 45-day window close to the end of the year that would be easy to remember. We welcome comments regarding our proposed and alternative approach for the annual open enrollment period.​

If you have strong feelings, the time to comment is now.

Does that say something about not having enrollment periods more often that I am missing?

 

[dblack]

Does that say something about not having enrollment periods more often that I am missing?

That's not actually part of the law. It's part of the proposed supplementary regulations the insurance industry is wrangling over to 'insure' that they don't really have to live up to their end of the bargain. To be sure, when all is said and done, they'll have us by the balls and we'll have nothing more than the empty promises of self-serving politicians. Go team!

 

[Zander]

When Congress passes a law that is over 2000 pages long and nobody who voted for it has even read it, there are sure to be "unintended consequences".

 

[RDD_1210]

And it works so well in Massachusetts, where it is actually illegal to do. The problem is that the fine they impose is less than the cost of the insurance, and the enrollment periods are quarterly. That means that, if worse comes to worse, you only have to hang on for a few weeks before you get coverage.

What makes you think that the open enrollments you think will prevent people from doing this will only be once a year?

So you suffer a heart attack or stroke and your idea is to just tough it out for a couple of weeks? You being serious?

Emergency rooms will stabilize you, unless you are saying the law changes that.

At least you have a well thought out plan.