The Importance of Social Conservatism as it relates to the GOP

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Establishment Repubs would love nothing more than be able to cut the SOCONs loose BUT they can't win elections w/o them. They are more interested in Repubs in Washington helping them to secret their money away than they are about installing cameras in people's bedrooms.

They certainly can’t win local elections in bright red, gerrymandered districts without social conservatives; where republicans interested in sound and responsible governance live in fear of being primaried.

 

[BorisTheAnimal]

Establishment Repubs would love nothing more than be able to cut the SOCONs loose BUT they can't win elections w/o them. They are more interested in Repubs in Washington helping them to secret their money away than they are about installing cameras in people's bedrooms.

They certainly can’t win local elections in bright red, gerrymandered districts without social conservatives; where republicans interested in sound and responsible governance live in fear of being primaried.

To Democrats, "sound" and "reasonable" governance by Republicans means Republicans agree with Democrats 100% of the time, correct?

 

[BorisTheAnimal]

From the cited article:

Conservatives can’t win without social conservatives, but increasingly, at least at the national level, they cannot win with them.

Indeed, as time goes on, for younger voters who might have conservative leanings, the hate and ignorance expressed by social conservatives will drive them away from the GOP.

The bane of social conservatism will eventually be the undoing of republicans.

So then you disenfranchise a major voting block.

 

[BorisTheAnimal]

Is that not the reason they keep losing? One of the main reasons I would never vote Republican is because of their social agenda.

So you see a problem with protecting the most innocent among us and the correct and only definition of marriage?

The problem is not respecting the privacy rights of Americans to make personal decisions in good faith free from interference by the government, where restricting government authority is supposed to be a fundamental tenet of conservative dogma.

And where the problem is not respecting the equal protection rights of same-sex couples to access their state’s marriage law in accordance with 14th Amendment jurisprudence, another example of restricting the authority of government also once a fundamental tenet of conservative dogma.

The irony of this is no one is asking conservatives to ‘change,’ simply return to who they once were before they succumbed to the madness of social conservatism.

Last, no one is asking conservatives to stop believing abortion is wrong or that marriage is between a man and woman only, but conservatives need to stop attempting to codify these subjective beliefs in to secular law all must obey, giving greater, unwarranted authority to the state in violation of conservative dogma.

What a crock! You are among those who want the GOP to be a mirror image of the Democrat party. We need a solid Conservative opposition to Democrats and Liberals. Not Liberal and "Liberal-lyte".

 

[FA_Q2]

Interesting. If true, then really, the party is already doomed. Social issues lose every time – period. Should the base hold dear to that ideal, the republican party will indeed cease to exist.

Social issues actually win every time. If they didn't, Obama wouldn't be using them to make his points for him, he would be using facts. The problem is that the Republican leadership is afraid of the social issues because they believe, like you, that they are losers.

Wrong.

They win for democrats, not republicans. Every time we get into an abortion debate we get idiot republicans eating both feet with comments like “If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down” that get beat over and over again in the national discourse. The republicans are destroyed when they start talking about complete bans on abortion and ‘defending’ marriage. Those don’t work. Other than that, what major social issues are there that you belive are ‘winners.’

The only places such issues matter are areas where there is no real contest and the candidates are simply trying to out conservative each other. Are those really the only values that the republicans stand for? Are you really trying to tell me that these issues should take center stage as we abandon all pretense of being for smaller government and more freedom? Really, if that is true then I really can’t believe that I ever called myself a republican as those 2 things, small government and greater freedom, are the really the most important 2 things that matter to me in a candidate’s positions. The republicans have totally abandoned that precept.

 

[FA_Q2]

So you see a problem with protecting the most innocent among us and the correct and only definition of marriage?

The problem is not respecting the privacy rights of Americans to make personal decisions in good faith free from interference by the government, where restricting government authority is supposed to be a fundamental tenet of conservative dogma.

And where the problem is not respecting the equal protection rights of same-sex couples to access their state’s marriage law in accordance with 14th Amendment jurisprudence, another example of restricting the authority of government also once a fundamental tenet of conservative dogma.

The irony of this is no one is asking conservatives to ‘change,’ simply return to who they once were before they succumbed to the madness of social conservatism.

Last, no one is asking conservatives to stop believing abortion is wrong or that marriage is between a man and woman only, but conservatives need to stop attempting to codify these subjective beliefs in to secular law all must obey, giving greater, unwarranted authority to the state in violation of conservative dogma.

What a crock! You are among those who want the GOP to be a mirror image of the Democrat party. We need a solid Conservative opposition to Democrats and Liberals. Not Liberal and "Liberal-lyte".

The current situation right now is liberal light. The politicians campaign on things like abortion while doing virtually nothing about it and gay marriage is here whether or not they like it. Other than taxes (which is an asinine position if you hold to spending just as much) what the hell are the differences. You DO need solid conservatives to run against democrats. Unfortunately, all you have are democrats that don’t like gay marriage, abortion and taxes and in this thread you are essentially defending that stance.

 

[editec]

GOP Needs Social Conservatives More Than Economic Conservatives, Study Suggests

I would like everyone interested to read the full article before commenting. This supports what I have been saying all along. Alienate Social Conservatives such as myself and you effectively destroy the party.

Oh I think this is probably very true.

Fiscal conservativism tends to stay until austerity comes home to roost.

But social conservatism seldom has a downside.

One can easily be socially Conservative since mostly that has to do with telling OTHER PEOPLE HOW TO LIVE.

There's no cost to being a social conservative...

 

[BorisTheAnimal]

The problem is not respecting the privacy rights of Americans to make personal decisions in good faith free from interference by the government, where restricting government authority is supposed to be a fundamental tenet of conservative dogma.

And where the problem is not respecting the equal protection rights of same-sex couples to access their state’s marriage law in accordance with 14th Amendment jurisprudence, another example of restricting the authority of government also once a fundamental tenet of conservative dogma.

The irony of this is no one is asking conservatives to ‘change,’ simply return to who they once were before they succumbed to the madness of social conservatism.

Last, no one is asking conservatives to stop believing abortion is wrong or that marriage is between a man and woman only, but conservatives need to stop attempting to codify these subjective beliefs in to secular law all must obey, giving greater, unwarranted authority to the state in violation of conservative dogma.

What a crock! You are among those who want the GOP to be a mirror image of the Democrat party. We need a solid Conservative opposition to Democrats and Liberals. Not Liberal and "Liberal-lyte".

The current situation right now is liberal light. The politicians campaign on things like abortion while doing virtually nothing about it and gay marriage is here whether or not they like it. Other than taxes (which is an asinine position if you hold to spending just as much) what the hell are the differences. You DO need solid conservatives to run against democrats. Unfortunately, all you have are democrats that don’t like gay marriage, abortion and taxes and in this thread you are essentially defending that stance.

Part of Conservatism is holding to Social norms that have been working since the dawn of creation. Again, Social Liberals would just love to do away with laws against murder, theft, etc. That's their "logical" conclusion.

 

[FA_Q2]

Part of Conservatism is holding to Social norms that have been working since the dawn of creation. Again, Social Liberals would just love to do away with laws against murder, theft, etc. That's their "logical" conclusion.

No, actually that is an argumentum ad absurdum. No one within their right mind wants to repeal murder rape or any other heinous crime. That is a thinly veiled attempt at demonizing the other side to justify yours and is pointless.

 

[BorisTheAnimal]

Part of Conservatism is holding to Social norms that have been working since the dawn of creation. Again, Social Liberals would just love to do away with laws against murder, theft, etc. That's their "logical" conclusion.

No, actually that is an argumentum ad absurdum. No one within their right mind wants to repeal murder rape or any other heinous crime. That is a thinly veiled attempt at demonizing the other side to justify yours and is pointless.

Wrong once again. Social Liberals want to do away with all drug laws, all prostitution laws, so why not go all out. that is the ONLY logical conclusion that comes from this. We as a society have become more violent, more callous, and more immoral because of social Liberalism.

 

[midcan5]

While it may sound cynical, social conservatives (SC) would always outnumber economic conservatives (EC) in a society as unequal as America is today. And since we are really talking about republican versus democrat, most people automatically assume one group is more social conservative than the other. This is not true. Doing this misses the big picture. While simplistic two issues dominate the conservative today: taxes and abortion. Both touch on the devil for conservatives, government. Most economic conservatives don't care about social issues, they care about money issues and the status quo. EC align with SC because they both share the enemy of my enemy is my friend construct. Social conservatives on the other hand cross the political divide, I know many democrats who voted (in the past) republican because they see religion, abortion, or other issues as important positions. But here's the enormous glitch in this crossover, many social conservatives actually care about living people and not just potential cells, they care about children, poverty, the needy and the elderly. So when republicans through the sequester, through raising corporations to person status, through tax unfairness, cut off benefits for head start, or meals on wheels, these social conservatives say wait a minute. Some Americans still have a heart, the Koch brothers, the wealthy, the talking heads who do nothing substantive, and the numerous corporate propaganda machines misnamed think tanks, have not yet destroyed what made America America. Social conservatives with a heart and soul will vote democratic, that party is not yet completely useless - it maybe too one day be managed totally by money, then we can turn out the lights on a wonderful experiment. http://www.usmessageboard.com/writing/50779-end-of-democracy.html

 

[Asclepias]

I am willing to bet you, without knowing a thing about you, that I can convince you that a conservative social agenda makes more sense than you think. Care to take me up on it?

Sure. What do you have in mind?

How about teen pregnancy?

If that one scares you, we could try something else.

I have teen girls so lets give it a whirl.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Establishment Repubs would love nothing more than be able to cut the SOCONs loose BUT they can't win elections w/o them. They are more interested in Repubs in Washington helping them to secret their money away than they are about installing cameras in people's bedrooms.

They certainly can’t win local elections in bright red, gerrymandered districts without social conservatives; where republicans interested in sound and responsible governance live in fear of being primaried.

Instead of complaining about Republican gerrymandering, while simultaneously ignoring Democratic gerrymandering, why not say something intelligent?

Sorry, I forgot who I was talking to.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Interesting. If true, then really, the party is already doomed. Social issues lose every time – period. Should the base hold dear to that ideal, the republican party will indeed cease to exist.

Social issues actually win every time. If they didn't, Obama wouldn't be using them to make his points for him, he would be using facts. The problem is that the Republican leadership is afraid of the social issues because they believe, like you, that they are losers.

Wrong.

They win for democrats, not republicans. Every time we get into an abortion debate we get idiot republicans eating both feet with comments like “If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down” that get beat over and over again in the national discourse. The republicans are destroyed when they start talking about complete bans on abortion and ‘defending’ marriage. Those don’t work. Other than that, what major social issues are there that you belive are ‘winners.’

The only places such issues matter are areas where there is no real contest and the candidates are simply trying to out conservative each other. Are those really the only values that the republicans stand for? Are you really trying to tell me that these issues should take center stage as we abandon all pretense of being for smaller government and more freedom? Really, if that is true then I really can’t believe that I ever called myself a republican as those 2 things, small government and greater freedom, are the really the most important 2 things that matter to me in a candidate’s positions. The republicans have totally abandoned that precept.

If they didn't win for Republicans there wouldn't be any Republicans in office anywhere. The problem remains that the leadership is afraid of them, so they run away with their tails between their legs rather than argue them.

Look at this poll.

See those numbers that show that women are more likely to support abortion restrictions then men? Even among Democrats? Yet every time the issue comes up the Republicans run away and hide because they pay attention to the talking heads. What they should be doing is arguing their positions, pointing out that there are people on both sides who say incredibly stupid things, and then hit the press with Nancy Pelosi's claim that abortion is a sacred issue to Catholics.

How the fuck is killing babies a sacred issue? What does that mean? Somebody needs to be asking these questions, and we know the press won't do it, so embarrass them every time they try to bring up Akin. They will win hamds down.

You cannot win a fight unless you fight, and the Republicans are losing because they won't fight, not because they are on the wrong side.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

GOP Needs Social Conservatives More Than Economic Conservatives, Study Suggests

I would like everyone interested to read the full article before commenting. This supports what I have been saying all along. Alienate Social Conservatives such as myself and you effectively destroy the party.

Oh I think this is probably very true.

Fiscal conservativism tends to stay until austerity comes home to roost.

But social conservatism seldom has a downside.

One can easily be socially Conservative since mostly that has to do with telling OTHER PEOPLE HOW TO LIVE.

There's no cost to being a social conservative...

Wouldn't somebody actually have to try austerity before it comes home to roost? We already know that raising taxes, which you call austerity, doesn't work, why not try cutting them, and spending, and see what happens?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

While it may sound cynical, social conservatives (SC) would always outnumber economic conservatives (EC) in a society as unequal as America is today. And since we are really talking about republican versus democrat, most people automatically assume one group is more social conservative than the other. This is not true. Doing this misses the big picture. While simplistic two issues dominate the conservative today: taxes and abortion. Both touch on the devil for conservatives, government. Most economic conservatives don't care about social issues, they care about money issues and the status quo. EC align with SC because they both share the enemy of my enemy is my friend construct. Social conservatives on the other hand cross the political divide, I know many democrats who voted (in the past) republican because they see religion, abortion, or other issues as important positions. But here's the enormous glitch in this crossover, many social conservatives actually care about living people and not just potential cells, they care about children, poverty, the needy and the elderly. So when republicans through the sequester, through raising corporations to person status, through tax unfairness, cut off benefits for head start, or meals on wheels, these social conservatives say wait a minute. Some Americans still have a heart, the Koch brothers, the wealthy, the talking heads who do nothing substantive, and the numerous corporate propaganda machines misnamed think tanks, have not yet destroyed what made America America. Social conservatives with a heart and soul will vote democratic, that party is not yet completely useless - it maybe too one day be managed totally by money, then we can turn out the lights on a wonderful experiment. http://www.usmessageboard.com/writing/50779-end-of-democracy.html

That isn't smart enough to sound cynical.

What part of society is unequal? Is it the fact that a black boy born to a white woman became President of the United States, or is it the fact that you are as smart, and as knowledgeable, as the average fifth grader?