The Impact of Global Christian Music in Worship

Okay I am not super judgey about music, but I am often pretty hard on the modern "praise chorus" or "praise song". They are offered on our screen without musical notation and are so generic in structure that to me it's pick-a-melody, which I often do, and sometimes the wrong melody.

The structure of these songs is pop music predictable with the last stanza repeating like, I don't know, five times. I guess it's at this point you're supposed to be singing the same thing and-- I don't know--contemplating God more? Working yourself into a spiritual state? You can see where my mind goes at this point. Not where it should. I have to shut down my musical mind honestly and pray for forgiveness during church, I am not kidding.

I know this sounds like snobbery and I don't mean it to. I don't mind a few praise songs here and there but they've taken over, and that's too bad. We can do better. That's all.

I'm not a fan of modern arrangment. No. Huh uh.But the last time I popped off about style, you kow ho wthat went, so. Ha.

But...speaking of styles, now we get into styles, so we have to consider them. Hm. Here we get back to frequency. I hate that part of it, it's a deep part of the discussion. That's a kink in the conduit. Now, how do you unkink it? Hm? How? lol.

Remember Bruce Lee? That cat was deep sometimes. I was watching an interview with him from years ago and he said do not believe in styles, styles separate man. Under the heavens we are but one family. That it's a process of continuing growth.

So. Rememebr what you were saying abut music being it's own language? Now we have styles in the mix.
 
Okay I am not super judgey about music, but I am often pretty hard on the modern "praise chorus" or "praise song". They are offered on our screen without musical notation and are so generic in structure that to me it's pick-a-melody, which I often do, and sometimes the wrong melody.

The structure of these songs is pop music predictable with the last stanza repeating like, I don't know, five times. I guess it's at this point you're supposed to be singing the same thing and-- I don't know--contemplating God more? Working yourself into a spiritual state? You can see where my mind goes at this point. Not where it should. I have to shut down my musical mind honestly and pray for forgiveness during church, I am not kidding.

I know this sounds like snobbery and I don't mean it to. I don't mind a few praise songs here and there but they've taken over, and that's too bad. We can do better. That's all.

I'm not a fan of modern arrangment. No. Huh uh.

But...now we get into styles. Hm. Here we get back to frequency. I hate that part of i,t it's a deep part of the discussion. That's a kink in the conduit. Now, how do you unkink it? Hm? How? lol.

Remember Bruce Lee? That cat was deep sometimes. I was watching an interview with him from years ago and he said do not believe in styles, styles separate man. Under the heavens we are but one family. That it's a process of continuing growth.

So. Rememebr what you were saying abut music being it's own language? Now we have styles in the mix.

I don't think different styles is bad...and I disagree with Lee to the extent that he does not believe in styles. Without styles, there is no contrast, just uniformity. You can imagine the art that comes out of that.

But back to the praise chorus: I don't think it's bad insomuch as the style is lacking (it is, though, but that's just my opinion) but in that it seems have taken over in the modern American evangelical church. So we have a LACK of styles, and that's the problem.
 
I don't think different styles is bad...and I disagree with Lee to the extent that he does not believe in styles. Without styles, there is no contrast, just uniformity. You can imagine the art that comes out of that.

But back to the praise chorus: I don't think it's bad insomuch as the style is lacking (it is, though, but that's just my opinion) but in that it seems have taken over in the modern American evangelical church. So we have a LACK of styles, and that's the problem.

Yeah, could be, I'm just kind of typing out loud this morning. I'm having my first cup of hot tea for the season. It's gud.
 
I've always thought that gospel is the only means of prayer that truly seems heartfelt and fun, rather than depressing and intimidated.
As a child I found just about everything associated with the church intimidating and depressing apart from some of the music.

I’m not sure prayer is the right term for all songs of worship. Maybe there’s a place for celebration too?

Just after writing the “Hallelujah Chorus,” Handel said, “I did think I did see all Heaven before me and the great God Himself.”
The genius of Handel is that he didn't even have to say it for you to know it.
Amazing piece of work, The Messiah. Music manipulates the emotions like no other.


I enjoy the Messiah. It's very Baroque--early Classical, but clearly a wonderful piece of music and delightfully simple but powerful to sing. I prefer more modern classical music to be honest and the clustered harmony composers are coming out with now are almost otherworldly, and I love them. But I have always been partial to 20th century and later.

Just as an aside the Hallelujah Chorus comes at the Easter part of The Messiah...heh. "For Unto Us a Child Is Born" is the Christmas part actually, but no one concerns themselves with that. Which is fine, good music is good music anytime!

I've been to performances of the Messiah, so I know what parts are which. I like the Amen at the end as much as the Hallelujah chorus. I've never heard anyone say it was "simple to sing," though.
 
I've always thought that gospel is the only means of prayer that truly seems heartfelt and fun, rather than depressing and intimidated.
As a child I found just about everything associated with the church intimidating and depressing apart from some of the music.

I’m not sure prayer is the right term for all songs of worship. Maybe there’s a place for celebration too?

Just after writing the “Hallelujah Chorus,” Handel said, “I did think I did see all Heaven before me and the great God Himself.”
The genius of Handel is that he didn't even have to say it for you to know it.
Amazing piece of work, The Messiah. Music manipulates the emotions like no other.


I enjoy the Messiah. It's very Baroque--early Classical, but clearly a wonderful piece of music and delightfully simple but powerful to sing. I prefer more modern classical music to be honest and the clustered harmony composers are coming out with now are almost otherworldly, and I love them. But I have always been partial to 20th century and later.

Just as an aside the Hallelujah Chorus comes at the Easter part of The Messiah...heh. "For Unto Us a Child Is Born" is the Christmas part actually, but no one concerns themselves with that. Which is fine, good music is good music anytime!

I've been to performances of the Messiah, so I know what parts are which. I like the Amen at the end as much as the Hallelujah chorus. I've never heard anyone say it was "simple to sing," though.


"For Unto Us a Child is Born" and the "Hallelujah Chorus" can both be accessed by decent high school choirs. Don't get me wrong though--simple to sing does not mean "not good music". Some of the best music ever is simple, IMHO

ETA: upon reflection it occurs to me that Handel was a devout Christian and wrote a lot of church music--I don't know this off hand, but it might have been the case, and really probably was, that he wrote the most powerful effecting music he could for non-virtuosos. Good singers the likes of which you might find in churches, but not exceedingly trained singers--at least in the chorus parts. And boy did he succeed in THAT, don't you think?
 
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Geez, that is so different from what I've ever learned about The Messiah. A classically trained soprano told me the Hallelujah chorus is a total bitch. I've even read that it is almost impossible for some of the parts to be performed as they were originally written because we no longer have eunuchs to provide the powerful high voices required. It always sounds fine to me, of course.
 
Geez, that is so different from what I've ever learned about The Messiah. A classically trained soprano told me the Hallelujah chorus is a total bitch. I've even read that it is almost impossible for some of the parts to be performed as they were originally written because we no longer have eunuchs to provide the powerful high voices required. It always sounds fine to me, of course.

I mean I don't know who would say it's "impossible" to be performed as originally written--in the key of D the soprano goes to an A but doesn't sustain one. Totally doable, even comfortable for your first sopranos. The Messiah only requires singers to be in shape to sustain the breath...it's very classically "diatonic". The harmonies are not difficult at all. Hence the accessibility to high school choirs.
 
Geez, that is so different from what I've ever learned about The Messiah. A classically trained soprano told me the Hallelujah chorus is a total bitch. I've even read that it is almost impossible for some of the parts to be performed as they were originally written because we no longer have eunuchs to provide the powerful high voices required. It always sounds fine to me, of course.
Part of the difficulty attributed to singing Handel’s choruses is they were original scored for very small orchestral forces, not huge. doubled up symphony orchestras plus pipe organ. These days the modern obsession with scale, such as that mounted by the Morman Tabernacle Choir, and others gives singers a really hard task to be even heard over all that racket. Granted many of Handels solo arias are a very difficult to sing but so are many of Bach’s. Maybe what we’re seeing here is a change in how todays singers are triained or the result of all the crap we now breath in from birth?

Vocal technique for Messiah Choruses with runs
 
I like this rendition of "Oh Holy Night" and the video is touching:

 
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I like this rendition of "Oh Holy Night" and the video is touching:


I’m no believer but this is the heart of what I take to have been Christ’s teachings. It’s a shame though so much nonsense has been piled onto the simple truths of the Gospels over the centuries and that so much of organised religion has been perverted by greed and the struggle for power.
 
I like a little bit of all of it, including the new metal versions, as far as instrumental backup music goes. The problem I see with the new stuff is the lyrics; it all gets repetitive in a very short time, not much variety in the themes really, to give the genre much depth and breadth and creativity. The genre does have some of the best vocalists and vocal groups on the planet, and a big library of favorites many that can be re-arranged, like for instance what a girl on The Voice did with Amazing Grace last week, with the lyrics fitting the melody and time signatures of "House of the Rising Sun"; if that was available somewhere besides Apple I -Tunes I would have bought it; pretty creative and a good ear for such mixes.
 
I like this rendition of "Oh Holy Night" and the video is touching:


I’m no believer but this is the heart of what I take to have been Christ’s teachings. It’s a shame though so much nonsense has been piled onto the simple truths of the Gospels over the centuries and that so much of organised religion has been perverted by greed and the struggle for power.


Meh, it's just media hyperbole, making all that look like a much bigger thing than it really is in real life, like all the lying and sniveling about 'mega-churches' and the stupid smears of pastors like Osteen and others, made up rubbish. There is always going to be some of that going on, but nowadays it's a full press media campaign by assorted sociopaths and deviants bloviating and lying through their teeth constantly. I do a lot of work locally with churches, and don't see hardly any of all that 'corruption and fighting' in real life, denominations all seem to work well together from where I work with them. 'Organized' sects are far more effective than 'dis-organized' ones; the latter are where the egotists and cranks congregate.

Many just don't like the Christian philosophy and theology for personal reasons, and want to re-write it to suit themselves and their own personal egoes.
 
QUOTE="Natural Citizen, post: 21285808, member: 58613"]Agreed, music is very powerful.
Indeed but let’s not forget music, especially when used during mass rallies, has the power to induce evil. There’s a form of rap that preaches mysogeny, homophobia and racism. There’s also a proven negative influence on the young from lyrics that encourage suicide..
As with anything humans create,it can always be a two edged sword.
Now for something uplifting, even for unbelievers like me.......
I’m not sure if this next song is Christian but Phil Collins himself is so I suppose it must be.

I can feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord
And I've been waiting for this moment for all my life, oh Lord
Can you feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord, oh Lord
Well if you told me you were drowning, I would not lend a hand
I've seen your face before my friend, but I don't know if you know who I am
Well I was there and I saw what you did, I saw it with my own two eyes
So you can wipe off that grin, I know where you've been
It's all been a pack of lies
And I can feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord
Well I've been waiting for this moment for all my life, oh Lord
I can feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord[/QUOTE]

Thank you! Particularly for "In the Air Tonight." I have always waited for Phil Collin's perfect drum scale! I love it so much that I go back and play it again.

Music has tremendous spiritual power, and proves an opportunity for the souls to fly. I must agree with you that this power can be used for evil, as well as good, and also that so much music today is crap.

I am impressed about your background with the organ. I have attended services at the National Cathedral many times, and when that huge puppy is fired up with something like the Agincourt Hymn, one feels the majesty and spirituality at once, regardless of faith. It lifts one so much higher than an ordinary day. I have often wondered what it would be like to play it.

I hope that you won't mind it if I add some of my favorites in spiritual music:



(two Jews!)



Amazing Grace - Scottish Bagpipes
 

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