The House just voted to allow hunters to kill bears hibernating with their young

haven't read it yet, only what the op said, but allowed to kill MOTHER bears with CUBS in their Den, just seems WRONG WRONG AND WRONG????


This is a planned cull that would be directed by Alaska's Fish and Game department I would imagine.This is to protect First Nations food supplies. Oh and baby bears grow up to be very very big bears.
I know Tiny but this simply seems wrong to me...I still have not read the articles posted yet....

But killing a mama bear in it's den and it's cubs, while sleeping/hibernating is simply awful, and all the shows I have watched on Alaska and the Natives and the way they respect the lives of all animals, and kill only for food purposes and an immediate threat to their own lives, and thank God for their kills for providing food.... yes, there is some trapping which seems cruel but they not only use their furs for their own coats and blankets for survival, but they will eat the animal if edible and they will use every single part of the animal killed, from making gelatin out of their tendons, string and rope , making tools and jewelry and buttons out of bones....just making the absolute most out of every kill to show their respect and thanks for the animal who gave their life for them...

Doesn't fit or jive, in my head, with killing a mother and her young, while completely peaceful and sleeping. That's hard for me to stomach....
A measure like killing a bear and cubs while sleeping, just does not FIT with all that I thought they were, as human beings living in unison with Nature.

I agree with everything you said. If I lived in Alaska, I would lobby to make the laws reflect that.

On on added note, I would also want my congress critter to get the federal government out of Alaska's business. That is what this piece of legislation does.

I believe, though I could be wrong, Alaska can still make it's own rules and regulations, however it wants to. So can the native populations.

If the Federal government can protect wildlife, they can also do away with any of Alaska's regulations prohibiting folks out of state hunting their wildlife. That is the upshot here.

Don't be so short sighted.
 
haven't read it yet, only what the op said, but allowed to kill MOTHER bears with CUBS in their Den, just seems WRONG WRONG AND WRONG????


This is a planned cull that would be directed by Alaska's Fish and Game department I would imagine.This is to protect First Nations food supplies. Oh and baby bears grow up to be very very big bears.
I know Tiny but this simply seems wrong to me...I still have not read the articles posted yet....

But killing a mama bear in it's den and it's cubs, while sleeping/hibernating is simply awful, and all the shows I have watched on Alaska and the Natives and the way they respect the lives of all animals, and kill only for food purposes and an immediate threat to their own lives, and thank God for their kills for providing food.... yes, there is some trapping which seems cruel but they not only use their furs for their own coats and blankets for survival, but they will eat the animal if edible and they will use every single part of the animal killed, from making gelatin out of their tendons, string and rope , making tools and jewelry and buttons out of bones....just making the absolute most out of every kill to show their respect and thanks for the animal who gave their life for them...

Doesn't fit or jive, in my head, with killing a mother and her young, while completely peaceful and sleeping. That's hard for me to stomach....
A measure like killing a bear and cubs while sleeping, just does not FIT with all that I thought they were, as human beings living in unison with Nature.

To you it's a mama bear and babies or a mama wolf and her young. To other wildlife they are predators ripping the throats out of caribou, moose and elk and others.

You have to remember these beasts need our protection now. It's not a hunt. This is not for trophies. It is a true cull.

This will give you an idea of how desperate all are to save these populations from predators. Wildlife biologists are assisting the governments to strike a balance.

"Airlifting Pregnant Caribou Away From Wolves Caribou herds in British Columbia are threatened by a new predator. Indigenous people are taking extreme steps to save them.

After capturing a pregnant female caribou in British Columbia, wildlife biologists prepare to airlift her by helicopter to a pen where she can give birth in safety.

On a clear sunny day in March, in a snow-covered area of the South Peace River region of British Columbia, a female caribou is on the ground, struggling to get back on its feet.

Surrounded by a team of biologists, veterinarians, and First Nations community members, the sedated animal is slowly opening its eyes. Cec Heron, lands and resource manager for the West Moberly First Nations, gently strokes its back and speaks to it in a soft voice.

“I am just letting her know that she is now in a good place and will be very well looked after,” Heron says.

Along with ten other pregnant females, this one has just been captured in the Rocky Mountains, by a net fired from a low-flying helicopter, and airlifted to a valley about 35 miles east of Mackenzie. In a pen guarded day and night by First Nations shepherds, protected from wolves and bears, the caribou will give birth and raise their calves, then be returned to the wild when they are less vulnerable.

AND check out the statistics. And I love this Chief. He puts it so beautifully. That we have to be there for the caribou.

The woodland caribou that live in and around the Rockies in southern British Columbia and Alberta are listed as threatened by the Canadian government; the committee of scientific experts that advises the government considers them endangered. In the South Peace region, the Klinse-Za herd has declined from 191 animals in 1997 to only 16 in 2013, with no calves surviving predation that year.

“Caribou were here for us when we needed help. We have to be there for them now,” says Roland Willson, chief of the West Moberly First Nations, one of two aboriginal groups behind the penning project. “We have to do everything we can to try and fix the wrong that has been done here.”

Airlifting Pregnant Caribou Away From Wolves
 
That's only part of the story, that just says, in effect, "no."

Why not read what they are saying, "no" to?
https://www.fws.gov/policy/library/2016/2016-18117.pdf
27 pages of arguments and regulations that are the State's business, not the federal government's. Do YOU live in Alaska? Why is this any of my state's business, even if I oppose it, why should I care? It's none of my business. It's like me trying to tell Germany how they should manage their wildlife.

You can always find an excuse. The bill is flat out wrong and hiding behind other technicalities or semantics to back a bulls hit coward as bill like this is cowardly..and lame.
 
That's only part of the story, that just says, in effect, "no."

Why not read what they are saying, "no" to?
https://www.fws.gov/policy/library/2016/2016-18117.pdf
27 pages of arguments and regulations that are the State's business, not the federal government's. Do YOU live in Alaska? Why is this any of my state's business, even if I oppose it, why should I care? It's none of my business. It's like me trying to tell Germany how they should manage their wildlife.

You can always find an excuse. The bill is flat out wrong and hiding behind other technicalities or semantics to back a bulls hit coward as bill like this is cowardly..and lame.


You don't have a clue what you are talking about.
 
That's only part of the story, that just says, in effect, "no."

Why not read what they are saying, "no" to?
https://www.fws.gov/policy/library/2016/2016-18117.pdf
27 pages of arguments and regulations that are the State's business, not the federal government's. Do YOU live in Alaska? Why is this any of my state's business, even if I oppose it, why should I care? It's none of my business. It's like me trying to tell Germany how they should manage their wildlife.


Awesome link. Thank you. It's great to see that non kill solutions to predators are being considered as well. I wish people would understand that we owe it to the prey to find a balance.

“It is not a question of economics, but a question of ethics,” says McNay. Because humans have created the threat to the caribou, “we are morally obligated to do something to help the species,” he says.

Ryan Desjarlais is one of the shepherds tending to the caribou. In March, after the first animal was captured, Desjarlais was anxiously waiting on his snowmobile, close to the pen, for the helicopter to bring in more caribou. Desjarlais spent the next few months watching and feeding the caribou in the pen. Seven calves were born between May and June, and two died shortly after birth.

At the end of July, the fence was pulled down to release the females and the five remaining calves. The animals slowly moved west and stayed within 12 miles (20 kilometers) of the pen. All are still alive, an improvement over last year when several caribou had been killed by wolves within the first few days of the release.

“It means a lot to try and protect a species, especially one that is as hurting as this one,” Desjarlais says. “It would be nice to take my kid up to the territory where caribou used to roam, and say there are caribou back where they always were.”

Airlifting Pregnant Caribou Away From Wolves
 
haven't read it yet, only what the op said, but allowed to kill MOTHER bears with CUBS in their Den, just seems WRONG WRONG AND WRONG????


This is a planned cull that would be directed by Alaska's Fish and Game department I would imagine.This is to protect First Nations food supplies. Oh and baby bears grow up to be very very big bears.
I know Tiny but this simply seems wrong to me...I still have not read the articles posted yet....

But killing a mama bear in it's den and it's cubs, while sleeping/hibernating is simply awful, and all the shows I have watched on Alaska and the Natives and the way they respect the lives of all animals, and kill only for food purposes and an immediate threat to their own lives, and thank God for their kills for providing food.... yes, there is some trapping which seems cruel but they not only use their furs for their own coats and blankets for survival, but they will eat the animal if edible and they will use every single part of the animal killed, from making gelatin out of their tendons, string and rope , making tools and jewelry and buttons out of bones....just making the absolute most out of every kill to show their respect and thanks for the animal who gave their life for them...

Doesn't fit or jive, in my head, with killing a mother and her young, while completely peaceful and sleeping. That's hard for me to stomach....
A measure like killing a bear and cubs while sleeping, just does not FIT with all that I thought they were, as human beings living in unison with Nature.

To you it's a mama bear and babies or a mama wolf and her young. To other wildlife they are predators ripping the throats out of caribou, moose and elk and others.

You have to remember these beasts need our protection now. It's not a hunt. This is not for trophies. It is a true cull.

This will give you an idea of how desperate all are to save these populations from predators. Wildlife biologists are assisting the governments to strike a balance.

"Airlifting Pregnant Caribou Away From Wolves Caribou herds in British Columbia are threatened by a new predator. Indigenous people are taking extreme steps to save them.

After capturing a pregnant female caribou in British Columbia, wildlife biologists prepare to airlift her by helicopter to a pen where she can give birth in safety.

On a clear sunny day in March, in a snow-covered area of the South Peace River region of British Columbia, a female caribou is on the ground, struggling to get back on its feet.

Surrounded by a team of biologists, veterinarians, and First Nations community members, the sedated animal is slowly opening its eyes. Cec Heron, lands and resource manager for the West Moberly First Nations, gently strokes its back and speaks to it in a soft voice.

“I am just letting her know that she is now in a good place and will be very well looked after,” Heron says.

Along with ten other pregnant females, this one has just been captured in the Rocky Mountains, by a net fired from a low-flying helicopter, and airlifted to a valley about 35 miles east of Mackenzie. In a pen guarded day and night by First Nations shepherds, protected from wolves and bears, the caribou will give birth and raise their calves, then be returned to the wild when they are less vulnerable.

AND check out the statistics. And I love this Chief. He puts it so beautifully. That we have to be there for the caribou.

The woodland caribou that live in and around the Rockies in southern British Columbia and Alberta are listed as threatened by the Canadian government; the committee of scientific experts that advises the government considers them endangered. In the South Peace region, the Klinse-Za herd has declined from 191 animals in 1997 to only 16 in 2013, with no calves surviving predation that year.

“Caribou were here for us when we needed help. We have to be there for them now,” says Roland Willson, chief of the West Moberly First Nations, one of two aboriginal groups behind the penning project. “We have to do everything we can to try and fix the wrong that has been done here.”

Airlifting Pregnant Caribou Away From Wolves
I can understand wolves and can justify in my head....culling them...

I have a problem doing this to Smokey the Bear and Yogi Bear! :D

In Maine we control Black Bears by extending hunting season if there are too many and reducing hunting season if there are too few....much like we control our deer heard...

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY

I have a wild Black Bear Friend, he/she makes a stop by my house every year for the past 5 or 6 years, when she/he wakes up from hibernating....there is a least a couple of thousand of acres of woods surrounding us and I have no idea where she/he lives or where her den is....I just know about 6 years ago her momma, whose back was as tall as our economy car when on all fours :eek:, brought her/him here as a very small cub, and every year since he's come back, bigger and bigger every year, to our bird feeder and pulls the metal stand it hangs on to the ground and sits like a panda bear eating the sunflower seeds or suet that;s hanging, and Matt and I run out to the deck to scream and yell to shew it away, and he/she ALWAYS turns towards us, seems to have the most beautiful look in her/his endearing eyes and smiles at us, like saying ''hey, how are ya? long time no see!'', then he grabs the bird feeder container and runs like the dickens! And we don't see him or her until next April! He/she should be here soon....it's coming up on the time....though we still have snow on the ground and got snow again last night, so that could push the wake up out a little.... Black bears are the most beautiful creature I have ever seen close up in my entire life!

Hopefully I won't be the headlines some day!

ON THE WOODED COAST OF MAINE, LADY MAULED, KILLED, AND EATEN BY BLACK BEAR!


:p
 
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If their decision passes into law, hunters will be allowed to enter dens where bears are hibernating and kill their entire families. They would also be allowed to shoot and kill wolf families, including their pups.

Slaughtering entire families of hibernating bears is cowardly and inhumane. Bears pose no danger to humans or livestock when they're sleeping through the winter. Culling wolf families is a short-sighted plan that will push their numbers toward extinction again.
Can we sodomize the sleeping bears first? You know, like the heartless 18th century barbarians we all want to regress to?
 
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haven't read it yet, only what the op said, but allowed to kill MOTHER bears with CUBS in their Den, just seems WRONG WRONG AND WRONG????


This is a planned cull that would be directed by Alaska's Fish and Game department I would imagine.This is to protect First Nations food supplies. Oh and baby bears grow up to be very very big bears.
I know Tiny but this simply seems wrong to me...I still have not read the articles posted yet....

But killing a mama bear in it's den and it's cubs, while sleeping/hibernating is simply awful, and all the shows I have watched on Alaska and the Natives and the way they respect the lives of all animals, and kill only for food purposes and an immediate threat to their own lives, and thank God for their kills for providing food.... yes, there is some trapping which seems cruel but they not only use their furs for their own coats and blankets for survival, but they will eat the animal if edible and they will use every single part of the animal killed, from making gelatin out of their tendons, string and rope , making tools and jewelry and buttons out of bones....just making the absolute most out of every kill to show their respect and thanks for the animal who gave their life for them...

Doesn't fit or jive, in my head, with killing a mother and her young, while completely peaceful and sleeping. That's hard for me to stomach....
A measure like killing a bear and cubs while sleeping, just does not FIT with all that I thought they were, as human beings living in unison with Nature.

To you it's a mama bear and babies or a mama wolf and her young. To other wildlife they are predators ripping the throats out of caribou, moose and elk and others.

You have to remember these beasts need our protection now. It's not a hunt. This is not for trophies. It is a true cull.

This will give you an idea of how desperate all are to save these populations from predators. Wildlife biologists are assisting the governments to strike a balance.

"Airlifting Pregnant Caribou Away From Wolves Caribou herds in British Columbia are threatened by a new predator. Indigenous people are taking extreme steps to save them.

After capturing a pregnant female caribou in British Columbia, wildlife biologists prepare to airlift her by helicopter to a pen where she can give birth in safety.

On a clear sunny day in March, in a snow-covered area of the South Peace River region of British Columbia, a female caribou is on the ground, struggling to get back on its feet.

Surrounded by a team of biologists, veterinarians, and First Nations community members, the sedated animal is slowly opening its eyes. Cec Heron, lands and resource manager for the West Moberly First Nations, gently strokes its back and speaks to it in a soft voice.

“I am just letting her know that she is now in a good place and will be very well looked after,” Heron says.

Along with ten other pregnant females, this one has just been captured in the Rocky Mountains, by a net fired from a low-flying helicopter, and airlifted to a valley about 35 miles east of Mackenzie. In a pen guarded day and night by First Nations shepherds, protected from wolves and bears, the caribou will give birth and raise their calves, then be returned to the wild when they are less vulnerable.

AND check out the statistics. And I love this Chief. He puts it so beautifully. That we have to be there for the caribou.

The woodland caribou that live in and around the Rockies in southern British Columbia and Alberta are listed as threatened by the Canadian government; the committee of scientific experts that advises the government considers them endangered. In the South Peace region, the Klinse-Za herd has declined from 191 animals in 1997 to only 16 in 2013, with no calves surviving predation that year.

“Caribou were here for us when we needed help. We have to be there for them now,” says Roland Willson, chief of the West Moberly First Nations, one of two aboriginal groups behind the penning project. “We have to do everything we can to try and fix the wrong that has been done here.”

Airlifting Pregnant Caribou Away From Wolves
I can understand wolves and can justify in my head....culling them...

I have a problem doing this to Smokey the Bear and Yogi Bear! :D

In Maine we control Black Bears by extending hunting season if there are too many and reducing hunting season if there are too few....much like we control our deer heard...

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY

I have a wild Black Bear Friend, he/she makes a stop by my house every year for the past 5 or 6 years, when she/he wakes up from hibernating....there is a least a couple of thousand of acres of woods surrounding us and I have no idea where she/he lives or where her den is....I just know about 6 years ago her momma, whose back was as tall as our economy car when on all fours :eek:, brought her/him here as a very small cub, and every year since he's come back, bigger and bigger every year, to our bird feeder and pulls the metal stand it hangs on to the ground and sits like a panda bear eating the sunflower seeds or suet that;s hanging, and Matt and I run out to the deck to scream and yell to shew it away, and he/she ALWAYS turns towards us, seems to have the most beautiful look in her/his endearing eyes and smiles at us, like saying ''hey, how are ya? long time no see!'', then he grabs the bird feeder container and runs like the dickens! And we don't see him or her until next April! He/she should be here soon....it's coming up on the time....though we still have snow on the ground and got snow again last night, so that could push the wake up out a little.... Black bears are the most beautiful creature I have ever seen close up in my entire life!

Hopefully I won't be the headlines some day!

ON THE WOODED COAST OF MAINE, LADY KILLED, MAULED AND EATEN BY BLACK BEAR!


:p


It took me a long time to be able to accept the culling of certain beasties because I grew up hunting with the old adage "if it doesn't give you meat, you damn well better leave it on its feet". But as I became more involved with First Nations issues I "get it" now.

In typical human fashion we break something in mother nature and inflict habitat loss and then we have to go about fixing it. Sheesh.
 
It has nothing to do with First Peoples' food supplies.

Where in blazes did you get that nonsense?
Actually it does. I believe people using the animals for a food source is exempt.
It's a cul of the wolfl, not eating the animals. td is wrong about the bear cull. The First Nations chief opposes killing bears.

Each Chief and each band know what is good for their rez and surrounding areas. Ine Chief does not speak for all. And they have input with Resource Managers and Wildlife biologists Jake. This is not just some willy nilly deal to get trophies for crying out loud.
 
For crying out loud, you are conflating a BC local wolf cull with the killing of hiberating animals.

Come on, you are better than this.
 
One has to remember bears will hunt and kill a calf in a heart beat. We ain't talking Winnie, Smoky, Yogi or Boo Boo. This is what Fish and Game in Alaska had to do a few years back to save the moose population.

And yes they took the hides as well and the meat.

" FAIRBANKS - State wildlife biologists from the Alaska Department of Fish and Game recently killed almost 90 bears and delivered nearly 4 tons of bear meat to residents in eight villages in western Interior Alaska as part of a predator control program designed to increase the number of moose in the area.

Fish and Game staff shot 89 bears — 84 black bears and five grizzlies — in game management unit 19A along the Kuskokwim River during a two-week program that began on May 13 and ended Monday. The area is about 300 miles southwest of Fairbanks.

Biologists shot the bears from a helicopter in a 530-square mile area of state land that is a small part of unit 19A, which encompasses nearly 10,000 square miles east of Aniak.

The goal of the program was to reduce the number of bears in the area as low as possible, Fish and Game spokeswoman Cathie Harms said. It was the first year of a two-year predator control program approved by the Alaska Board of Game last spring at the request of local residents concerned about low moose numbers.

The nearly 8,000 pounds of meat from the bears, valued at approximately $80,000, was distributed to villagers in Aniak, Chuathbaluk, Crooked Creek, Lime Village, Kalskag, Red Devil, Sleetmute and Stony River, Harms said.

The bears ranged in age from yearlings to mature adults. Biologists avoided shooting sows with cubs of the year. Hides from larger bears were sent to Fairbanks and will be sold at the annual fur auction in Fairbanks in March.

Removal of the bears, which cost approximately $230,000, should boost survival of moose calves in the area, Harms said.

“Bears are most efficient at taking young moose, so calves being born now will have a much higher chance of survival,” she said. “Once calves have survived a year, they’re not as vulnerable.”

The program won’t have a permanent effect on the moose population, but it should have a measurable effect for several years, Harms said. The department will conduct moose surveys to monitor the population.

“Within the next year or two we should be able to see an increase in moose numbers,” she said.

The bear control area previously was the best moose hunting area in all of unit 19A, but the moose population has declined dramatically in recent years. Most of the unit has been closed to moose hunting since 2005, and only a few subsistence hunts remain open.

The moose harvest in all of unit 19A has averaged between 75 and 100 moose the past five years. The harvest objective set by the Board of Game for the unit is 400 to 550 moose."

89 bears killed in Alaska predator control program
 
For crying out loud, you are conflating a BC local wolf cull with the killing of hiberating animals.

Come on, you are better than this.


It's a cull. Not a hunt. BC/Yukon/NWT/Alaska all are dealing with predator problems. I just put up how Alaska saved one moose herd that was rapidly declining by aerial hunting.

My druthers would be to cull the bears in hibernation so they aren't running in mortal fear from airplanes and gunfire. I would consider the hibernation cull to be far more humane. Think about that Jake.

The sheer terror these beasies must endure before death. This is the part that rips me apart the most. But I understand why culls are crucial to a balance.
 
To you it's a mama bear and babies or a mama wolf and her young. To other wildlife they are predators ripping the throats out of caribou, moose and elk and others.

You have to remember these beasts need our protection now. It's not a hunt. This is not for trophies. It is a true cull.

This will give you an idea of how desperate all are to save these populations from predators. Wildlife biologists are assisting the governments to strike a balance.
No, this gives you an ideal how they're seizing the opportunity
to drive up the number of moose and caribou for trophy hunters!

This is so fucking appalling on so many levels...

The only reason for protecting moose, caribou, etc
should be for sustaining a food source for predators and locals

Protecting prey, from predators, for trophy hunters...
unfuckingbelievable !

Just look at who sponsored the bill...
enough said!
 
To you it's a mama bear and babies or a mama wolf and her young. To other wildlife they are predators ripping the throats out of caribou, moose and elk and others.

You have to remember these beasts need our protection now. It's not a hunt. This is not for trophies. It is a true cull.

This will give you an idea of how desperate all are to save these populations from predators. Wildlife biologists are assisting the governments to strike a balance.
No, this gives you an ideal how they're seizing the opportunity
to drive up the number of moose and caribou for trophy hunters!

This is so fucking appalling on so many levels...

The only reason for protecting moose, caribou, etc
should be for sustaining a food source for predators and locals

Protecting prey, from predators, for trophy hunters...
unfuckingbelievable !

Just look at who sponsored the bill...
enough said!


In Alaska it is the State wildlife biologists from the Alaska Department of Fish and Game that do the culling. They don't take trophys and they give the meat to the First Nations.

You really don't get it do you? Bears sense of smell is so great that they are able to be on a moose/elk/caribou calf right after birth.

Here's how fast herds can go down.

"The woodland caribou that live in and around the Rockies in southern British Columbia and Alberta are listed as threatened by the Canadian government; the committee of scientific experts that advises the government considers them endangered.

In the South Peace region, the Klinse-Za herd has declined from 191 animals in 1997 to only 16 in 2013, with no calves surviving predation that year."

It's so freaking bad that they are airlifting pregnant moose to be protected in a pen away from wolves and bears.

Airlifting Pregnant Caribou Away From Wolves
 
There is no need for a hibernation cull, particularly when much of it is not for the First Peoples but for agribusiness benefit.
 
There is no need for a hibernation cull, particularly when much of it is not for the First Peoples but for agribusiness benefit.

So you don't have a problem with culling dangerous wildlife, just culling during their hibernation. So you want humans to hunt them when they are awake and dangerous. If they need to cull. It would seem that doing it while they are hibernating would be the safest as well as the most humane for the animal.

To all of you whining about the cruelty of putting them down in their sleep, do you advocate that when an animal veterinary needs to put an animal down they don't sedate them to put them to sleep first?
 
theBawk demonstrates he has no idea about conservation, wilderness, and culls.

The issue is about agribusiness getting Congress to protect its profits.
 

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