The greatest health care system in the world

[Cecilie1200]

So sorry, but talking about universal health care is NOT talking about a cheaper system that serves more people. In actual fact, universal health care gives you two choices: let costs balloon out of sight, or ration care. And hey, just letting people go without any healthcare is cheaper, but that's not really the point, is it? Shooting them in the head would ALSO be cheaper, because bullets don't cost that much.

If you seriously don't know what the debate is, then you're a frigging moron and should just take yourself out of here until you become informed.

Can't tell if you are joking or embarassing yourself.

Please don't flatter yourself that I would ever find it the slightest bit embarrassing to have you either disagree with me or not understand me.

As to you 'argument' - and your reference to 'actual fact' - universal healthcare applies to everyone (* see the word "universal"). As for cheaper, I was saying the CANADIAN system is cheaper per person (don't take my word for it, do a little research... or *gulp*, a lot of research).

Thank you, I'm well aware of both the definition of "universal" health care AND the actual usage of that euphemism, which is government-controlled and -administered health care (it being "universal" because of that fact). So if you're trying to pretend that by saying "universal", we're talking about something else, don't even bother.

I'm also well aware of the so-called "real cost figures" of Canadian and other single-payer health care systems, which is why I made the point about rationing care. Perhaps you want bargain-basement, thrift store-level health care. I don't, and I don't appreciate you and others trying to foist it on me just because you're unable to take care of yourself. "Cheaper" is not always synonymous with "better". Frequently - and certainly in the case of the Canadian system - it is more a matter of "you get what you pay for".

I live up here, and know that it doesn't matter how much $$$ I make, if I'm sick I get treated, not at the hospital of my choice, but at the CLOSEST one. Just like if I called 911, I get the CLOSEST cops responding, or firefighters arriving the fastest based on proximity, not the ones my boss got a deal with or the ones my company decided to use... or the ones I happen to be able to afford.

I'm very glad that you're so proud of your ability to make others pay for your upkeep. Myself, I feel no obligation to pay to keep alive people whose existence frankly means nothing to me whatsoever.

And please don't waste my time with your anecdotal "evidence". You were just touting "research", so why don't you do a little concerning the availability rates of state-of-the-art health care in Canada versus the United States, and survivability rates of serious illnesses like cancer, and wait times for a variety of procedures? If you want to live with that sort of second-rate garbage care, go for it. But since you're not even in the United States, I will doubly thank you to stop trying to force that shit on me, because it REALLY is none of your damned business what Americans do on the subject.

If private systems are the way to go - then go for it all the way.

Well, thank you SO MUCH for your permission to run our country as we see fit.

If it isn't then accept the bullshit argument in support of the US style healthcare system is just that. It works for those who run it, and profit from it. But since it isn't called Health profiteering, it is mislabelled. If you actually believe medical services should be about MEDICAL CARE, then big changes are in order.

Thank you again for your kind permission for us to run our own country without reference to your guidance if we so choose. I know how hard it is for you to accept that no one asked you.

I actually believe medical care should be about getting it before I die or am permanently crippled, so changing to YOUR system definitely is NOT in order.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The US Government spends much more than the Canadian Government for health care and Americans do not, repeat DO NOT, have a universal health care system (mediare). If memeory serves it was the Harvard School of Business that actually conducted the study that proved it.

So what? It's not your money, so why do you care? Go back to waiting six months to get an MRI and quit bothering us. Last time I checked, my CITY has more MRI machines than your entire godforsaken backwoods nation.

 

[Agnapostate]

What conclusions can be drawn from the analysis by Davis and her colleagues in Mirror, Mirror on the Wall: An International Update on the Comparative Performance of American Health Care? Consider the abstract:

The article presents an international update on the comparative performance of the health care system in the U.S. It was cited that the country consistently underperforms on most dimensions of performance despite having the most costly health system. Compared with Australia, Canada, Germany, New Zealand, and Great Britain, the U.S. health care system ranks last or next-to-last on five dimensions of a high performance health system, including quality, access, efficiency, equity and health lives.

I do realize that Cecilie has had some trouble grasping basic economic concepts in this thread, but it's my hope that she'll at least have the intellectual capacities to understand this simplicity.

 

[Yukon]

so what? It's not your money, so why do you care? Go back to waiting six months to get an mri and quit bothering us. Last time i checked, my city has more mri machines than your entire godforsaken backwoods nation.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Gurdari]

Please don't flatter yourself that I would ever find it the slightest bit embarrassing to have you either disagree with me or not understand me.

Not flattered, not sure you understand what ll those words mean either... or why that is relevant. Rock on.

Thank you, I'm well aware of both the definition of "universal" health care AND the actual usage of that euphemism, which is government-controlled and -administered health care (it being "universal" because of that fact). So if you're trying to pretend that by saying "universal", we're talking about something else, don't even bother.

Make SOME sense... please. You did say 'neither' when I made an earlier point about UC, so if you are changing your tune, rock on.

I'm also well aware of the so-called "real cost figures" of Canadian and other single-payer health care systems, which is why I made the point about rationing care. Perhaps you want bargain-basement, thrift store-level health care. I don't, and I don't appreciate you and others trying to foist it on me just because you're unable to take care of yourself. "Cheaper" is not always synonymous with "better". Frequently - and certainly in the case of the Canadian system - it is more a matter of "you get what you pay for".

So, is there some support for your argument in there? What is your point? Who has bargain-basement care - other than poor souls who live in a system based on income, where things like bargain-basements actually exist? My health care isn't based on how much I get promoted at work, or if my investments pan out or I am born rich.

I'm very glad that you're so proud of your ability to make others pay for your upkeep. Myself, I feel no obligation to pay to keep alive people whose existence frankly means nothing to me whatsoever.

Yes you do. You are currently obligated (with no sense of irony) to pay for others well being. Google the words 'police' and 'firefighter' or 'public school'...

And please don't waste my time with your anecdotal "evidence". You were just touting "research", so why don't you do a little concerning the availability rates of state-of-the-art health care in Canada versus the United States, and survivability rates of serious illnesses like cancer, and wait times for a variety of procedures? If you want to live with that sort of second-rate garbage care, go for it. But since you're not even in the United States, I will doubly thank you to stop trying to force that shit on me, because it REALLY is none of your damned business what Americans do on the subject.

I understand you are quite upset, but stick to the argument if possible. So, I do not have the power to foist anyting upon you, so put down the shotgun and open your bottled water, take a deep breath (until your bunker runs out of air). You mention anecdotal evidence (which you appear to be quite fond of) and research (I thought I just invite dyouto do research, which I assume is a GOOD thing?) anyhow, it is easier to study Canadian effects because access is fairly standard, where as in the US, access and availability and treatment outcomes are tougher to quantify/qualify as people receive so many different levels of care (or some none at all - I would say the people without care fair poorly, non?).

Well, thank you SO MUCH for your permission to run our country as we see fit.

No permission needed. Yousound uber defensive, relax. This is an anonymous intrernet discussion.

Thank you again for your kind permission for us to run our own country without reference to your guidance if we so choose. I know how hard it is for you to accept that no one asked you.

I actually believe medical care should be about getting it before I die or am permanently crippled, so changing to YOUR system definitely is NOT in order.

Do you have any reason to say that about the Canadian system? I get care when I need it, and I have not yet died or become crippled... neither has anyone else I have ever met had those sort of issues. Did you read this in some right-wing internet chatroom and just believe it because it makes you feel good? If I need to see a specialist, I tell my doctor. Then I go see the specialist. Sounds simple, easy and fast. And of course...affordable. Everytime someone says we should look at other models (so rich people can have better care) the public rails against it... is that because our system is killing us and is unworkable and dangerous? You sound like you believe so. For whatever reason.

 

[Gurdari]

so what? It's not your money, so why do you care? Go back to waiting six months to get an mri and quit bothering us. Last time i checked, my city has more mri machines than your entire godforsaken backwoods nation.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know I know... hilarious. That's why I was asking if it was a joke earlier. Sort of a Stephen Colbert vibe...

As for poor cecilie - I hope she can afford the care she deserves.

 

[Yukon]

Factoid: In the USA no HEALTH CARE INSURANCE = BANLRUPTCY or DEATH.

Factoid: USA provides IRAQIs with UNIVERASAL MEDICARE

Factoid: USA only country in the western wplrd without MEDICARE for all citizens.

Factoid: US Government OWNS Banks, Insurance Companies, Automobile Companies = SOCIALISM

Factoid: Canadians better off then Americans


Vive le Canada

 

[garyd]

France is revamping there system because it's killing them economically. Great Britain has a two teared system. So does Canada because they are right next door. the German Pharmaceuticals industry once the best in the world now no longer exists for all practical puposes and 80% of the Pharmacological costs for Europe and Canada are now born by US citizens. It is also interesting to note that the only real way to lower medical costs is to make access to the system more difficult or impossible or to lower the impact of technological advances on the cost of health care. US health care cost are driven almost entirely by two things The first is technology and the second is the disparate impact of lawsuit mania.

 

[Cecilie1200]

so what? It's not your money, so why do you care? Go back to waiting six months to get an mri and quit bothering us. Last time i checked, my city has more mri machines than your entire godforsaken backwoods nation.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My mistake. According to Medical News Today, your country has managed to add more MRIs and CT scanners, so that the entire nation of Canada now has more of both than my city - which it did not back in 2003 - but fewer than my state.

Be proud, Yukon. Your "wonderful" country rapidly approaches the technological access of one US state. Maybe someday, you'll be comparable to an entire region. And one day, in the far future, you might even be a real country.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Please don't flatter yourself that I would ever find it the slightest bit embarrassing to have you either disagree with me or not understand me.

Not flattered, not sure you understand what ll those words mean either... or why that is relevant. Rock on.

Thank you, I'm well aware of both the definition of "universal" health care AND the actual usage of that euphemism, which is government-controlled and -administered health care (it being "universal" because of that fact). So if you're trying to pretend that by saying "universal", we're talking about something else, don't even bother.

Make SOME sense... please. You did say 'neither' when I made an earlier point about UC, so if you are changing your tune, rock on.

So, is there some support for your argument in there? What is your point? Who has bargain-basement care - other than poor souls who live in a system based on income, where things like bargain-basements actually exist? My health care isn't based on how much I get promoted at work, or if my investments pan out or I am born rich.




Yes you do. You are currently obligated (with no sense of irony) to pay for others well being. Google the words 'police' and 'firefighter' or 'public school'...



I understand you are quite upset, but stick to the argument if possible. So, I do not have the power to foist anyting upon you, so put down the shotgun and open your bottled water, take a deep breath (until your bunker runs out of air). You mention anecdotal evidence (which you appear to be quite fond of) and research (I thought I just invite dyouto do research, which I assume is a GOOD thing?) anyhow, it is easier to study Canadian effects because access is fairly standard, where as in the US, access and availability and treatment outcomes are tougher to quantify/qualify as people receive so many different levels of care (or some none at all - I would say the people without care fair poorly, non?).

Well, thank you SO MUCH for your permission to run our country as we see fit.

No permission needed. Yousound uber defensive, relax. This is an anonymous intrernet discussion.

Thank you again for your kind permission for us to run our own country without reference to your guidance if we so choose. I know how hard it is for you to accept that no one asked you.

I actually believe medical care should be about getting it before I die or am permanently crippled, so changing to YOUR system definitely is NOT in order.

Do you have any reason to say that about the Canadian system? I get care when I need it, and I have not yet died or become crippled... neither has anyone else I have ever met had those sort of issues. Did you read this in some right-wing internet chatroom and just believe it because it makes you feel good? If I need to see a specialist, I tell my doctor. Then I go see the specialist. Sounds simple, easy and fast. And of course...affordable. Everytime someone says we should look at other models (so rich people can have better care) the public rails against it... is that because our system is killing us and is unworkable and dangerous? You sound like you believe so. For whatever reason.

I see. English isn't your first language. "Rock on", and call me when you can understand simple sentences.

Sorry, but I simply can't dumb this down any further. If you couldn't understand that, there's no hope for discussing this with you. You just go on believing you have the most wonderfullest health care in the whole world . . . and keep it to yourself, because it's really none of your damned business what the US does.

 

[Cecilie1200]

so what? It's not your money, so why do you care? Go back to waiting six months to get an mri and quit bothering us. Last time i checked, my city has more mri machines than your entire godforsaken backwoods nation.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know I know... hilarious. That's why I was asking if it was a joke earlier. Sort of a Stephen Colbert vibe...

As for poor cecilie - I hope she can afford the care she deserves.

Sparky, exactly how common do you think MRI machines are in the US? Do you really think we tolerate having 6 per million of population? 12 CT scanners per million people? Really? Do you have any concept how primitive you appear to us?

The city of Tucson has just under one million people in its metropolitan area. Want to bet that we have more than 6 MRI machines here?

I had a roommate who needed an MRI as part of a routine diagnostic process. He wasn't even sick. He managed to get not one, but three, within a week of his doctor referring him, one of which was in an open MRI machine, which is relatively new and uncommon. Can you do that in Canada? In a pig's eye.

You want to sit up there and pronounce about the unacceptability of the US system, and you really, genuinely have no clue what US health care is really like, other than what you hear and read in an incredibly biased press. It's as if I wanted to declare myself an expert on the African jungle just because I read "Tarzan".

 

[Agnapostate]

Sorry, but I simply can't dumb this down any further.

Time to look at the plank in your own eye before noting the speck in the eye of another, wouldn't you say?

 

[eots]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGJbL-9nTBc[/ame]

 

[Yukon]

Regardless of how inferior Americans feel our Canadian health Care System I still pity Americans because if an American gets sick and does not have adequate Health Insurance he/she will DIE - man, woman, child...it doesn't matter they will DIE !!! Sad, so sad..................

 

[Cecilie1200]

Regardless of how inferior Americans feel are Canadian health Care System I still pity Americans because if an American gets sick and does not have adequate Health Insurance he/she will DIE - man, woman, child...it doesn't matter they will DIE !!! Sad, so sad..................

Regardless of how inferior Canadians feel our American health care system is, I still pity Canadians for being stupid and arrogant enough to think anyone cares about their uninformed opinions. Case in point this utterly childish, doomsday rant based in nothing but your own fevered and sadly unmedicated imagination.

Sad, so sad . . .

 

[Said1]

I think you have very little understanding of health care delivery, regional policy etc but pronounce that you do.

 

[Agnapostate]

Is that only starting to become obvious?

 

[Said1]

Is that only starting to become obvious?

No. I noticed Canada was #5 in most areas of that report you linked though!

 

[Yukon]

"There are none so blind as those who refuse to see" - Yukon

 

[Gurdari]

I see. English isn't your first language. "Rock on", and call me when you can understand simple sentences.

Sorry, but I simply can't dumb this down any further. If you couldn't understand that, there's no hope for discussing this with you. You just go on believing you have the most wonderfullest health care in the whole world . . . and keep it to yourself, because it's really none of your damned business what the US does.

You have not dumbed anything down (except the thread).

Go read a book about critical thinking, and try to form logical arguments - you will have less stress and make your point (when you have one) much clearer to your audience.

Keep in mind when you reference your opponent's argument, you should try to be factual (like, I never said Canada had the best system in the world - just that I was happy with it, and that it seems superior to the US model).

You basically ranted about things and failed to support them, not really sure why you think Canada's system is so bad... other than you think we have less MRI machines than your city. ANd you think government-run health systems are unferior to private ones... not sure why.


Oh well, I hope you have a super day, regardless (I'm off to English class).