The Great Lie

[Arianrhod]

I'm asking you to prove your claim that "the case is that capitalism would lower prices to 20% of what they are now and increase our life expectancy by 10-20 years."

If you're impotent, just say so.

stupid liberal wants a link to show how expensive things were in Red China

You're the only one mentioning China. Are you a stupid liberal? You're obviously at least one of those things.

stupid liberal wants a link to show how expensive things were in Red China and how poor people were in Red China

Confirmed that you consider yourself a stupid liberal, since you're the only one repeatedly mentioning China.

Post it again.

Ben Carson said Obamacare was worst thing since slavery because it features Red Chinese like control of industry that destroys incentives to work efficiently, raises prices, and ultimately impoverishes and kills people.

Post it again.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Post it again.

I'd be happy to especially since you're too stupid and liberal to refute it!!!

Ben Carson said Obamacare was worst thing since slavery because it features Red Chinese like fascist control of industry that destroys incentives to work efficiently, raises prices, and ultimately impoverishes and kills people.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

To quote President Kennedy in another context (defending his Medicare plan in 1962):

I understand that there is going to be a program this week against this bill, in which an English physician is going to come and talk about how bad their plans are. It may be, but he ought to talk about it in England, because his plans--because his plans and what they do in England are entirely different.

Why anyone thinks critiques of the NHS are relevant to any discussion Americans are having about health care escapes me, but it's certainly not a new phenomenon--folks have been throwing out that red herring for more than 50 years.

Well, the NHS certainly comes up a lot when people are pining for a more "first world" model.

I don't like to bash others systems.

But everything positive and negative I've read as a generalization is countered by those who I know that live in those countries.

There are pluses and negatives.

 

[dblack]

The underlying problem is lack of information. Those who have been dependent on someone else to provide them with health insurance (and do their paperwork for them) have a childlike understanding (or lack of understanding) of how health insurance works.

Wow... I find myself completely agreeing with you here. Ignorance of how insurance actually works is what allowed Congress to pull ACA off in the first place.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

The underlying problem is lack of information. Those who have been dependent on someone else to provide them with health insurance (and do their paperwork for them) have a childlike understanding (or lack of understanding) of how health insurance works.

Wow... I find myself completely agreeing with you here. Ignorance of how insurance actually works is what allowed Congress to pull ACA off in the first place.

Well, it would be great if you'd explain what it is that people don't know.

 

[dblack]

The underlying problem is lack of information. Those who have been dependent on someone else to provide them with health insurance (and do their paperwork for them) have a childlike understanding (or lack of understanding) of how health insurance works.

Wow... I find myself completely agreeing with you here. Ignorance of how insurance actually works is what allowed Congress to pull ACA off in the first place.

Well, it would be great if you'd explain what it is that people don't know.

The most significant thing is the widespread popularity of forcing insurance companies to "insure" people who are already sick. The mere idea that voters think that makes any sense at all is an expression extreme ignorance, if not plain stupidity.

 

[Arianrhod]

Post it again.

I'd be happy to especially since you're too stupid and liberal to refute it!!!

Ben Carson said Obamacare was worst thing since slavery because it features Red Chinese like fascist control of industry that destroys incentives to work efficiently, raises prices, and ultimately impoverishes and kills people.

Post it again.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

The underlying problem is lack of information. Those who have been dependent on someone else to provide them with health insurance (and do their paperwork for them) have a childlike understanding (or lack of understanding) of how health insurance works.

Wow... I find myself completely agreeing with you here. Ignorance of how insurance actually works is what allowed Congress to pull ACA off in the first place.

Well, it would be great if you'd explain what it is that people don't know.

The most significant thing is the widespread popularity of forcing insurance companies to "insure" people who are already sick. The mere idea that voters think that makes any sense at all is an expression extreme ignorance, if not plain stupidity.

Well, like many....I don't like the way things are set up.

I was looking for a more in-depth explanation.

Insurance, as I understand it, is that you pay premiums with the idea that if you get hit hard there is money to carry you through.

The premiums are a hedge against big losses or expenses.

You hope to never use it.

I understand your point of view, but our government has been propping up these morons for decades. And screwing some people big time. The "already sick" thing is what gets me. If you have a pre-existing condition and want to hedge against it....I think you should be able to. But to get in that game, you'd better be ready to tow the line with regards to choices of lifestyle.

 

[dblack]

The underlying problem is lack of information. Those who have been dependent on someone else to provide them with health insurance (and do their paperwork for them) have a childlike understanding (or lack of understanding) of how health insurance works.

Wow... I find myself completely agreeing with you here. Ignorance of how insurance actually works is what allowed Congress to pull ACA off in the first place.

Well, it would be great if you'd explain what it is that people don't know.

The most significant thing is the widespread popularity of forcing insurance companies to "insure" people who are already sick. The mere idea that voters think that makes any sense at all is an expression extreme ignorance, if not plain stupidity.

Well, like many....I don't like the way things are set up.

I was looking for a more in-depth explanation.

Insurance, as I understand it, is that you pay premiums with the idea that if you get hit hard there is money to carry you through.

The premiums are a hedge against big losses or expenses.

You hope to never use it.

I understand your point of view, but our government has been propping up these morons for decades. And screwing some people big time. The "already sick" thing is what gets me. If you have a pre-existing condition and want to hedge against it....I think you should be able to. But to get in that game, you'd better be ready to tow the line with regards to choices of lifestyle.

If you think people should be able to get health insurance for illnesses they already have, I'm afraid you don't understand. And it's not just my "point of view". It's matter of fact regarding the way insurance works.

Most people "get it" when we apply the same logic to other kinds of insurance. Most of us realize it would be irrational, for example, to expect insurance companies to sell fire insurance for a house that's already burned down, or collision insurance for a car that's already been in a wreck. But reason eludes them when it comes to health insurance.

What most people actually want is socialized health care, but they don't want to admit that they're socialists. So we do this stupid song and dance where we outsource our socialism to corporations who profit from it. That's ACA in a nutshell. Socialism run by corporations instead of government. It's truly the worst of both worlds when it comes to the socialism/capitalism debate. It has all the authoritarian mandates of government with all the greed and profiteering of corporate capitalism.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

The underlying problem is lack of information. Those who have been dependent on someone else to provide them with health insurance (and do their paperwork for them) have a childlike understanding (or lack of understanding) of how health insurance works.

Wow... I find myself completely agreeing with you here. Ignorance of how insurance actually works is what allowed Congress to pull ACA off in the first place.

Well, it would be great if you'd explain what it is that people don't know.

The most significant thing is the widespread popularity of forcing insurance companies to "insure" people who are already sick. The mere idea that voters think that makes any sense at all is an expression extreme ignorance, if not plain stupidity.

Well, like many....I don't like the way things are set up.

I was looking for a more in-depth explanation.

Insurance, as I understand it, is that you pay premiums with the idea that if you get hit hard there is money to carry you through.

The premiums are a hedge against big losses or expenses.

You hope to never use it.

I understand your point of view, but our government has been propping up these morons for decades. And screwing some people big time. The "already sick" thing is what gets me. If you have a pre-existing condition and want to hedge against it....I think you should be able to. But to get in that game, you'd better be ready to tow the line with regards to choices of lifestyle.

I'm afraid you don't understand. And it's not just my "point of view". It's matter of fact regarding the way insurance works.

Most people "get it" when we apply the same logic to other kinds of insurance. Most of us realize it would be irrational, for example, to expect insurance companies to sell fire insurance for a house that's already burned down, or collision insurance for a car that's already been in a wreck. But reason eludes them when it comes to health insurance.

What most people actually want is socialized health care, but they don't want to admit that they're socialists. So we do this stupid song and dance where we outsource our socialism to corporations who profit from it. That's ACA in a nutshell. Socialism run by corporations instead of government. It's truly the worst of both worlds when it comes to the socialism/capitalism debate. It has all the authoritarian mandates of government with all the greed and profiteering of corporate capitalism.

I have no problem with what you've posted.

The analogies are right on.

However, someone with a pre-existing condition is not necessarily a house that has burned down.

I don't want socialized insurance. What I'd like to see is the real cost of health care and how we can handle those costs without help from Harry Reid and President Obozo.

 

[dblack]

Wow... I find myself completely agreeing with you here. Ignorance of how insurance actually works is what allowed Congress to pull ACA off in the first place.

Well, it would be great if you'd explain what it is that people don't know.

The most significant thing is the widespread popularity of forcing insurance companies to "insure" people who are already sick. The mere idea that voters think that makes any sense at all is an expression extreme ignorance, if not plain stupidity.

Well, like many....I don't like the way things are set up.

I was looking for a more in-depth explanation.

Insurance, as I understand it, is that you pay premiums with the idea that if you get hit hard there is money to carry you through.

The premiums are a hedge against big losses or expenses.

You hope to never use it.

I understand your point of view, but our government has been propping up these morons for decades. And screwing some people big time. The "already sick" thing is what gets me. If you have a pre-existing condition and want to hedge against it....I think you should be able to. But to get in that game, you'd better be ready to tow the line with regards to choices of lifestyle.

I'm afraid you don't understand. And it's not just my "point of view". It's matter of fact regarding the way insurance works.

Most people "get it" when we apply the same logic to other kinds of insurance. Most of us realize it would be irrational, for example, to expect insurance companies to sell fire insurance for a house that's already burned down, or collision insurance for a car that's already been in a wreck. But reason eludes them when it comes to health insurance.

What most people actually want is socialized health care, but they don't want to admit that they're socialists. So we do this stupid song and dance where we outsource our socialism to corporations who profit from it. That's ACA in a nutshell. Socialism run by corporations instead of government. It's truly the worst of both worlds when it comes to the socialism/capitalism debate. It has all the authoritarian mandates of government with all the greed and profiteering of corporate capitalism.

I have no problem with what you've posted.

The analogies are right on.

However, someone with a pre-existing condition is not necessarily a house that has burned down.

From the perspective of insurance, it's the same situation. It's fine if you want to help these people. I do too. But insurance isn't a rational way to attempt it.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Well, it would be great if you'd explain what it is that people don't know.

The most significant thing is the widespread popularity of forcing insurance companies to "insure" people who are already sick. The mere idea that voters think that makes any sense at all is an expression extreme ignorance, if not plain stupidity.

Well, like many....I don't like the way things are set up.

I was looking for a more in-depth explanation.

Insurance, as I understand it, is that you pay premiums with the idea that if you get hit hard there is money to carry you through.

The premiums are a hedge against big losses or expenses.

You hope to never use it.

I understand your point of view, but our government has been propping up these morons for decades. And screwing some people big time. The "already sick" thing is what gets me. If you have a pre-existing condition and want to hedge against it....I think you should be able to. But to get in that game, you'd better be ready to tow the line with regards to choices of lifestyle.

I'm afraid you don't understand. And it's not just my "point of view". It's matter of fact regarding the way insurance works.

Most people "get it" when we apply the same logic to other kinds of insurance. Most of us realize it would be irrational, for example, to expect insurance companies to sell fire insurance for a house that's already burned down, or collision insurance for a car that's already been in a wreck. But reason eludes them when it comes to health insurance.

What most people actually want is socialized health care, but they don't want to admit that they're socialists. So we do this stupid song and dance where we outsource our socialism to corporations who profit from it. That's ACA in a nutshell. Socialism run by corporations instead of government. It's truly the worst of both worlds when it comes to the socialism/capitalism debate. It has all the authoritarian mandates of government with all the greed and profiteering of corporate capitalism.

I have no problem with what you've posted.

The analogies are right on.

However, someone with a pre-existing condition is not necessarily a house that has burned down.

From the perspective of insurance, it's the same situation. It's fine if you want to help these people. I do too. But insurance isn't a rational way to attempt it.

I don't see it as being the same.

If someone has pre-existing heart condition....might not be an issue.

If someone HAD cancer....might never see it again.

I'd be curious to know how you'd deal with people, for instance, who do have cancer and come looking for help.

I certainly don't have a good answer.

 

[Arianrhod]

If you think people should be able to get health insurance for illnesses they already have, I'm afraid you don't understand.

In an ideal world, people would have health insurance, period. If they developed illnesses along the way, in an ideal world they wouldn't go bankrupt trying to pay for treatment or die because they couldn't afford treatment.

In a truly ideal world, rational people would understand that in addition to "Me, ME, MEEEEEE!" these issues are important.

 

[dblack]

I'd be curious to know how you'd deal with people, for instance, who do have cancer and come looking for help.

I certainly don't have a good answer.

The same way we deal with any case of extreme poverty or misfortune. Either voluntary community support or government safety nets.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

I'd be curious to know how you'd deal with people, for instance, who do have cancer and come looking for help.

I certainly don't have a good answer.

The same way we deal with any case of extreme poverty or misfortune. Either voluntary community support or government safety nets.

I am good with that in that we have a way for them to get what they need.

 

[basquebromance]

 

[Sun Devil 92]

It's great you think Bill Maher is so smart.

I am sure that accounts for a lot of your issues.