The Great Healthcare Debate

Discussion in 'Healthcare/Insurance/Govt Healthcare' started by Navy1960, Sep 26, 2009.

  1. Navy1960
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    Navy1960 Senior Member

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    We once lived in a nation where it was the founding ideals that a man or woman could dare to dream and through hard work and live that dream.Yes, we have had many failings, but have learned over the years to change. We held their personal freedoms dear as we held our own dear. Even in wars, while we may have disagreed some of you shouted out in protest your feelings and did so knowing that you were exercising your freedoms to do so. What have we become? We have let our fears take hold of us and forgotten the most basic principle of this nation and one that so many have spilled blood the world over to defend and that is the right to enjoy our freedoms as individuals. We now look to a Govt. to provide all things for us and our neighbors even though they wish not to have it, because some see that equality is much more precious than freedom. What they do not realize is, they will never have true equality without the ability to respect honest disagreement and allow those that do not agree with them to exercise their freedoms.

    Healthcare is the great debate at the moment, but while people lose their jobs, and americans are deployed in the defense of freedom the world over some would rush to the alter of Govt. to lay down the very freedoms Americans are fighting and dying for to replace it with comfort. This healthcare debate is not about providing healthcare for the masses, it is about allowing americans the choice to make the decision on their own as to how they will live their lives. While many may not agree with this and that is their right to disagree, what needs to be said here, is that the same respect should be accorded to those that disagree. That is the basis from which this nation was founded and not forcing your beliefs upon half the population that do not agree with you. Our president has taken it upon himself to usurp these freedoms from millions of Americans and does so because he believes that this nation should "change" into one that has less personal freedom and one where you should be ashamed to raise your head high if you dare to make something of yourself by your own hard work. After spending over 20 years in the United States Navy in the defense of my country I am disappointed in the direction in which many have chosen to take it, and while I respect each and every one of your rights to express yourselves as Americans perhaps you all should take a moment and pause to perhaps advocate giving that same respect to those who do not agree with you.
     
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  2. JakeStarkey
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    JakeStarkey Diamond Member Supporting Member

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    Thank you for your service. I served on active duty more than a decade, and I think you are simply making right wing talking points. The great majority of Americans rightly believe that they were betrayed by the last administration's foreign adventurism, cultural irresponsibility, and corporatist leniency. The majority of Americans acted in the best of American interests -- they threw the sonsofguns out. If this administration demonstrates that it cannot turn the ship of state around, then it will be thrown out of office. But we are not going back to 2001 to 2006 anytime soon. Too many Americans were too badly burned by those folks and their policies.
     
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  3. Navy1960
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    Navy1960 Senior Member

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    First of all, you missed the point of my post almost completely, it was not advocating any "right wing" talking points, nor was it to express and idea that the desires of those so called "progressives" were not genuine. It was to point out that the debate on healthcare is a personal freedom issue to many Americans and those that advocate cultural equality when it comes to healthcare at the expense of freedom will end up having no equality or freedom. Further, while I respect those that wish the Govt. to provide them with healthcare as long as they pay for it, just do no force your wishes upon those who wish to make their own choices in thise large quest for cultural norming. I do not believe my post had any mention of corporate interests or any opnion as to their actions as well. In fact , I have posted here many times and my consistant opnion on this matter has always been to let corporations like any business large and small succeed or fail on their own merits and the product in which they produce as long as it is a product that is sold from state to state should be subjected to proper regulation. If the corporation fails then their has always been an avenue in which that corporation should go and thats bankruptcy court not the Federal Govt. or your wallet or mine. However, all that being said, my original posting has more to do with forced norming as it applies to this all out healthcare push when those that do not want it which is 50% of nation more depending on which poll you believe. I wanted to point out while those that wish this healthcare bill so badly and wish to be respected for that postion , should simply take pause and give the same respect to those that disagree with that postition. In doing so , you might jsut end up with the healthcare reform you so desire and have it at your own expense as well.
     
  4. Big Black Dog
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    Big Black Dog Gold Member Supporting Member

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    What exactly do you mean when you say too many Americans were too badly burned by those folks and their policies? Exactly what is it that the Bush Administration did you personally that "burned" you? Be specific. If you are making the point that you feel Bush was not truthful to the American public how do you compare him to the current President? To me, Obama is the biggest liar I have ever seen in politics. He's single handily destroying America. Why is it that you can't see this?
     
  5. veritas
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    veritas OBKB

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    I think we have to have healthcare for all in order to be able to compete. Let's face it, we haven't done much lately, we don't make much and what we do make is undercut by our competitors or it's just plain crap. People are working just to have healthcare. Innovation is nowhere. Something has to change. Healthcare has to be untied from employment.
     
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  6. JakeStarkey
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    JakeStarkey Diamond Member Supporting Member

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    Yes, sir, you are pushing the right wing. Your points are invalid, have proven unworkable, and have been harmful to the American public. Now move along, please.
     
  7. JakeStarkey
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    JakeStarkey Diamond Member Supporting Member

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    BBD is asking for facts? The one who never gave them, at least honest ones. BBD, bark on, baby.
     
  8. JakeStarkey
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    JakeStarkey Diamond Member Supporting Member

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    Healthcare has to be untied from right wing and corporatist talking points.

    Their day in the sun is over.
     
  9. Navy1960
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    Navy1960 Senior Member

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    Let me see, what point exactly was invalid, that polls indicated that 50% plus depending on which one you happen to trust show that most Americans do not wish the type of reform being proposed by the democrats? Please explain how that point is invalid, as perhaps you have access to the pulse of the nation that every polling company does not have access too. As for the corporate issue, if my points were invalid, then perhaps companies like, WorldCom, Texaco, Eastern Airlines, and oh yes Enron would have gotten those bailouts prior to their demise through bankruptcy. The point is that none of what i posted was invalid, it was the expressed desire that many Americans treasure freedom as much as you wish to have your Govt. provide healthcare for you. While you may not agree with it, it does not render their opinions invalid it simply means they are exercising the same voice you are and if they are invalid by your logic so then are you. Not everyone that disagree's with this healthcare reform happens to be a right wing advocate as are most progressive not liberals in the true sense of the word. As i said earlier, if you desire healthcare provided by the Government then by all means , pay for it, but do not mandate those that wish to make that choice for themselves to do so also, simply because you and others think you know best whats good for them, because you have forgetten what it means to live in a nation that is bound by freedom.
     
  10. mdn2000
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    mdn2000 BANNED

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    The only health care reform we need is to get the government fingers out, its the government of the last twenty years passing law and ignoring law that has created this mess and now they are here to fix it. Both side are guilty.

    Power and control, both sides want it, and everyday no matter which side wins or loses they take more power and control over our lives well they get richer, and richer.

    Now the Republicans are the good guys, right, time to clean house, the entire house.
     

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