The Great Abortion Compromise!

[Shogun]

I have to admit... I find it hilarious that the people resorting to ad hominems and personal insults ALREADY have the gaul to accuse me of generalizing.


Im hoping that American history isn't is such a sad state that some of us would rather forget the significant reality of Franklin's trip to France just because of the silly freedom fry fiasco... alas, I seem to have found my answer to the state of American "unity".


Carry on then. enjoy waving your team flag. You will either come to terms with the reality of liberty in America or find yourself rationalizing your own method of killing. After all, who knows how many more Eric Rudolphs are left in America.. Who knows what happens if one of your SCOTUS aces turns out to be a David Souter. Choose to live by the sword.. you are not the only people with swords. Choose to marginalize.. you don't have a monopoly on marginalization. Choose to hate. You will be hated. Who needs to invade America or launch a nuke when your attitudes garentee another civil war within 25 years?


the ironic part is that I don't have the slightest interest in the Abortion arguement. My test revolved only around your reaction and behaviour to an evenly debated issue. I'm sure the attack dogs will bite that idea and then blame me for growling at em... Somewhere along the timeline consideration beyond sporting the team jersey conveys a sanfransicso ACLU baby hating evil boggeyman?


and IM the one spouting generalization?


WOW.



depart from me, i don't know you... get used to hearing that.

 

[Shogun]

"I guess what im looking for in feedback is not so much "ra ra abortion sucks" or "ug ug limitless abortion" as "Ill agree with this if we adjust that". Mutual respect under mutual democracy. The Golden rule...

UNITED WE STAND...."



so mch for mutual respect.

so much for mutual democracy.


united we are not. divided we fall



kampai, suckers.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I have to admit... I find it hilarious that the people resorting to ad hominems and personal insults ALREADY have the gaul to accuse me of generalizing.


Im hoping that American history isn't is such a sad state that some of us would rather forget the significant reality of Franklin's trip to France just because of the silly freedom fry fiasco... alas, I seem to have found my answer to the state of American "unity".


Carry on then. enjoy waving your team flag. You will either come to terms with the reality of liberty in America or find yourself rationalizing your own method of killing. After all, who knows how many more Eric Rudolphs are left in America.. Who knows what happens if one of your SCOTUS aces turns out to be a David Souter. Choose to live by the sword.. you are not the only people with swords. Choose to marginalize.. you don't have a monopoly on marginalization. Choose to hate. You will be hated. Who needs to invade America or launch a nuke when your attitudes garentee another civil war within 25 years?


the ironic part is that I don't have the slightest interest in the Abortion arguement. My test revolved only around your reaction and behaviour to an evenly debated issue. I'm sure the attack dogs will bite that idea and then blame me for growling at em... Somewhere along the timeline consideration beyond sporting the team jersey conveys a sanfransicso ACLU baby hating evil boggeyman?


and IM the one spouting generalization?


WOW.



depart from me, i don't know you... get used to hearing that.

Boohoo ....and wah, wah!

Too bad your little experiment backfired.

 

[dilloduck]

I have to admit... I find it hilarious that the people resorting to ad hominems and personal insults ALREADY have the gaul to accuse me of generalizing.


Im hoping that American history isn't is such a sad state that some of us would rather forget the significant reality of Franklin's trip to France just because of the silly freedom fry fiasco... alas, I seem to have found my answer to the state of American "unity".


Carry on then. enjoy waving your team flag. You will either come to terms with the reality of liberty in America or find yourself rationalizing your own method of killing. After all, who knows how many more Eric Rudolphs are left in America.. Who knows what happens if one of your SCOTUS aces turns out to be a David Souter. Choose to live by the sword.. you are not the only people with swords. Choose to marginalize.. you don't have a monopoly on marginalization. Choose to hate. You will be hated. Who needs to invade America or launch a nuke when your attitudes garentee another civil war within 25 years?


the ironic part is that I don't have the slightest interest in the Abortion arguement. My test revolved only around your reaction and behaviour to an evenly debated issue. I'm sure the attack dogs will bite that idea and then blame me for growling at em... Somewhere along the timeline consideration beyond sporting the team jersey conveys a sanfransicso ACLU baby hating evil boggeyman?


and IM the one spouting generalization?


WOW.



depart from me, i don't know you... get used to hearing that.

Oh my--I feel so----deceived !!!!:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

 

[Shogun]

PS,

"It is a singular thing in the history of mankind that a great people have had the opportunity of forming a government for themselves. We are making experiment in politics. In these sentiments, I agree to the Constitution of the United States, with all its faults, if they are such. From when you assemble a number of men to have the advantage of their joint wisdom, you inevitably assemble with those men all their prejudices, their passions, their errors of opinion, their local interests, and their selfish views. It therefore astonishes me to find this system approaching so near to perfection as it does."


"There are two passions which have a powerful influence in the affairs of men, ambition and avarice, the love of power and the love of money.... And of what kind of men will strive for this profitable pre-eminence, thro’ all the bustle of cabal, the heat of contention, the infinite mutual abuse of parties, tearing to pieces the best of characters? It will not be the wise and moderate, the lovers of peace and good order, the men fittest for the trust. It will be the bold and the violent, the men of strong passions and indefatigable activity in their selfish pursuits. These will trust themselves to this government and be their rules ... I am apprehensive, therefore, perhaps too apprehensive, that the government of these states may in future times end in a monarchy, and a king will the sooner be set over us.

Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters. But America is too enlightened to be enslaved."

Ben Franklin

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=15750




enlightened?


HA! human events online... not too bad for the big bad baby hating evil OBVIOUSLY liberal new guy, right?

 

[Shogun]

reaching out accross the isle is some experiment?



nice.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

reaching out accross the isle is some experiment?



nice.

You're the one who called it a "test".

And yes, Ben Franklin is quite right that only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. I do not consider the mass killing of innocent helpless babies in the womb a virtue.

 

[Gunny]

I have to admit... I find it hilarious that the people resorting to ad hominems and personal insults ALREADY have the gaul to accuse me of generalizing.


Im hoping that American history isn't is such a sad state that some of us would rather forget the significant reality of Franklin's trip to France just because of the silly freedom fry fiasco... alas, I seem to have found my answer to the state of American "unity".


Carry on then. enjoy waving your team flag. You will either come to terms with the reality of liberty in America or find yourself rationalizing your own method of killing. After all, who knows how many more Eric Rudolphs are left in America.. Who knows what happens if one of your SCOTUS aces turns out to be a David Souter. Choose to live by the sword.. you are not the only people with swords. Choose to marginalize.. you don't have a monopoly on marginalization. Choose to hate. You will be hated. Who needs to invade America or launch a nuke when your attitudes garentee another civil war within 25 years?


the ironic part is that I don't have the slightest interest in the Abortion arguement. My test revolved only around your reaction and behaviour to an evenly debated issue. I'm sure the attack dogs will bite that idea and then blame me for growling at em... Somewhere along the timeline consideration beyond sporting the team jersey conveys a sanfransicso ACLU baby hating evil boggeyman?


and IM the one spouting generalization?


WOW.



depart from me, i don't know you... get used to hearing that.

So you think you want play mind games, huh? You pick one of the issues polarizing our nation .... an issue that has no moderate ground ..... and try to have an evenly debated issue.

Obviously you didn't put as much thought nor intellect into your little experiment as you think, IF you were honestly looking for an evenly debated issue.

The fact is one side believes abortion is a woman's right and the unborn child has no rights and the other side thinks abortion is murder. How do you get "evenly debated issue" out of THAT?

Get used to hearing THIS: Just go away. Same meaning but much simpler and to the point.

 

[Gunny]

Oh my--I feel so----deceived !!!!:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Next time don't be so gullible.

 

[Shogun]

You're the one who called it a "test".

And yes, Ben Franklin is quite right that only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. I do not consider the mass killing of innocent helpless babies in the womb a virtue.

Of course Im the one calling it a test.. IM the guy who created the thread. I take it that you didn't read the whole Franklin quote? He specifically mentioned your attitude by saying "From when you assemble a number of men to have the advantage of their joint wisdom, you inevitably assemble with those men all their prejudices, their passions, their errors of opinion, their local interests, and their selfish views. It therefore astonishes me to find this system approaching so near to perfection as it does"

but who is fooling whome? You are obviously not interested in anything beyond your own opinion.




"So you think you want play mind games, huh? You pick one of the issues polarizing our nation .... an issue that has no moderate ground ..... and try to have an evenly debated issue.

Obviously you didn't put as much thought nor intellect into your little experiment as you think, IF you were honestly looking for an evenly debated issue.

The fact is one side believes abortion is a woman's right and the unborn child has no rights and the other side thinks abortion is murder. How do you get "evenly debated issue" out of THAT?

Get used to hearing THIS: Just go away. Same meaning but much simpler and to the point."



Being considerate is a MIND GAME?

nice. More ad hominems, eh? Funny, I just heard Pat Buchannan claim that ad hominems are the last resort of the lazy mind on Bill Oreilly this evening. Gnash your teeth, sucker. I came here with an olive branch and you wipe your ass with it. Keep living by that sword, peter..

 

[nt250]

Thank you for your input. Im sure readers can find a similar sentiment from you in any other thread that touches on abortion. Ill thank you in advance for leaving this thread to those who are interested in reaching out to their opposites.


Good day.

You are a real piece of work. You are the type of poster I hate the most on message boards. I absolutely HATE posters like you. Why? Let me tell you:

You love to post about controversial subjects, but you do it in a way that pisses people off while you can sit back at your keyboard and chuckle at the reaction. You profess to be reasonable, and claim that you are only trying to get a reasonable response from others. You KNOW you won't, you know you'll get passionate replies from people with passionate opinions about something like abortion, but it's really amusing to you to see what people respond with anyway. You really don't care what they say at all. You just get off on the reaction.

Do you pick the wings off flies, too?

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Greetings!

None of you are familiar with me since I lurk on this board more than I post so forgive me for coming out of left field. I wanted to run an idea past a group of people with mixed political identity rather than my usual left leaning stomping grounds. I hope that a similar thread has not already been posted; i've read the rules and am not trying to step on toes... Here goes..

If voting Americans can agree on nothing else I am confident that we all can all feel what kind of polarized society we are. Pro this, Con that. 49%-51%. I will admit that I have enjoyed many, MANY rounds of debate (or arguement rather) and understant what it means to pick a team and go down with the ship so to speak. My question today is What can we do to develop a compromise on starkly polarized issues? You know what they say about opinions and, uh, elbows, right? Can we respect the opinon of someone else even if it is not our own? Can we agree to disagree knowing that, even if we win the election, we are ALL on the same boat? These are questions that I ask myself while trying to find common ground. Often it is easier to wrap ourselves up in a team jersey than it is to reach out and find common ground. I want to find common ground on theissue of abortion.

here is my compromise:


Is it a human when the sperm touches the egg or when the fetus is delivered from the vagina? While I don't believe that a fertalized egg is a human it is a human I think it is rediculous to hand out a blank abortion check that a late term baby must pay for. We can argue about souls on another thread. It seems to me that the brain cannot function without circulating bloodflow. THUS, I am willing to allow the criminalization for all abortion procedures performed on a fetus that has developed a heartbeat unless, of course, there is an issue of death for the mother. going further, I am willing to require that any doctor that allows an abortion past this stage not only loses their medical license but also serves the same jail time that manslaughter on a pregnant woman will deliver (no pun intended). IF there is a health concern for the mother then two second opinions are necessary in order to validate the claim.

In return, we pass a constitutionl amendment that clarifies the right of individual privacy to ensure that personal choice is not litigated by public morals, frank and honest sex education programs in public school (which can be opted out of course), access to every form of birth control available including the morning after pill. children under the age of 18 must still notify their legal guardian or parent since they are not autonomous legal enteties.

The point IS to minimize aborted children and not decide whose sexual behavior is acceptable, right? I guess what im looking for in feedback is not so much "ra ra abortion sucks" or "ug ug limitless abortion" as "Ill agree with this if we adjust that". Mutual respect under mutual democracy. The Golden rule...

UNITED WE STAND....

First, the liberals will NEVER agree to such a thing.

Second, while you may get such laws passed, you will NEVER get the two sides to agree to anything that will be permanent. The opposing viewpoints are simply not compatable to a permanent compromise.

However, although we may be polarized, its not necessarily a bad thing. We are a civilized nation OF LAWS. ALthough we disagree on many things, we AGREE to follow the laws, or, we agree to disagree, CIVIALLY. Unlike the middle east muslims who just start killing those who disagree if they cant get their way.

Many people said the Presidential election of 2000 was a fiasco, and an embarrasment to AMerica. I disagree, I say just the opposite. When it was all said and done, the situation was resolved peacefully and legally and agreed upon by all parties. This proved the strength of the US. In many other countries, such a close election would have resulted in much violence and possilbe overthrows of the govt.

As for abortion, its an easy prove that the fertilized egg is a human being. But the libs dont want to admit or face the facts.

 

[musicman]

I've got an idea for a compromise, Shogun. It's going to sound pretty radical, but here goes:

How about if we classify reproductive issues as , "the conduct of one's everyday life, and therefore none of central government's business"? We could let the PEOPLE decide - through their duly elected state representatives! I know that sounds off-the-wall, but a collection of fellows who came to be known as our founding fathers thought it a pretty good plan for governance.

What a national policy on abortion amounts to is central government overflowing its constitutional banks, and creating - out of whole cloth - a "right" to consequence-free sex. What LUNACY! Our inalienable rights are OURS - given to us by God - not handed down by governments.

Roe vs. Wade is atrocious law. It absolutely cannot withstand rationality. It will wilt before any reasonable standard of constitutionality. It's a dead man walking. You know this, don't you? That's why you're talking about a "compromise".

 

[Avatar4321]

There can be no compromise on abortion. It will be impossible to settle on an amount of child casualites that would be acceptable because none can be. Killing a child, especially when its to escape your own misconduct, is never right. You either think killing children is alright or you think its not. there is no middle ground on the issue.

 

[Avatar4321]

Why not instead focus on the weeks and months before conception ever occurs? That is where the true "choice" for women lies.

Because that would mean people would have to be responsible. And we cant have that. We need people irresponsible so they have to rely on the government.

Rather than exercise their agency, and make a choice to be responsible, people would rather eliminate the consequences of their poor choices to make their choices irrelevant. So basically they are claiming to "want a choice" so that they can make their choice irrelevant.

 

[Avatar4321]

What comes around, goes around, but it took over thirty years. I want the overturn on Roe v. Wade and have "choice" on the ballot. Compromising enough?

You know the left will never allow that. Because most people have never supported abortion. Especially now since the abortionists have ironically murdered any offspring they could have had to carry their fight to the next generation.

If the people actually get the right to choose, abortion becomes illegal in most states. But heaven forbid the people actually be allowed to choose.

 

[Avatar4321]

Both sides think they have "valid" points. If both sides "acknowledge" that the other side has valid points, we remain at odds. There's no sugar coating this one. The abortion issue while polarizing is far less damaging to US as a country than the argument on who are Americas' enemies and how to deal with them.

I think that could be debatable. I think one could argue that destroying future generations of America is just as damaging if not more so than our enemies. We can deal with the enemies. What do we do if great leaders, great thinkers, etc that are necessary for the survival of the nation get murdered before they have a chance to experience the fullness life has to offer?

I am not trying to start an argument. im just saying i dont think its as clear cut as you say

 

[Avatar4321]

Thank you for making an effort to look beyond the issue. I appriciate the objectivity.

I see no reason why there needs to objectivity on matters of good and evil. The second you start entertaining evil you start embracing it.

 

[Dr Grump]

So you admit you're just trolling the thread .....:rotflmao:

no, I'm just not as passionate about you about those two subjects.

 

[Avatar4321]

And again the doctor proves that liberals think killing murderous inmates and terrorists is wrong but innocent babies..hey no problemo..

The sad thing is they cant even see how hypocritical and backwards it is.

I mean you can be pro abortion - pro DP - you are conistant, always for death

You can be pro life - anti - DP - again constistant

You can be pro life - pro DP - still completely consistant to protect the innocent and punish the guilty

But how can you be pro abortion and anti dp? it just doesnt make any sense. You want to kill the innocent kids but think killing serial killers is evil? its just like what the heck are you thinking?