The Great Abortion Compromise!

[Shogun]

Too bad you don't like my position. On some things there is NO compromise. In America we vote on things to settle matters....we do not have to compromise on anything. Don't attempt to dismiss me with your accusatory liberal putdowns....they won't work.

If you are so concerned about womens' "choice", why not concentrate instead on womens' choice to bed with a man? Concentrate on the possible outcomes of such actions. Concentrate on responsibility. Or are they not "women" enough to stand up for the consequences of their actions? Why must a human life be snuffed out to accomodate an irresponsible woman's "choice"?

It isnt your position that I dont like. It is your automatic willingness to pounce without regard to any opinion that is not a carbon copy of your own. sure, you can overturn RvW with the current linup in the SCOTUS... but do you REALLY think that those who disagree with you will shrug their shoulders and walk away from the issue? when has that EVER happened without an act of bloodshed? dynamic tension, action and reaction, cause and effect. You may win for the next decade but do you REALLY think that such authority will last forever?

Again, I am not interested in argueing with you over something that you are obviously adamant about. I will respect your opinion if not your tenacity. I posted this thread for people willing to abide by the golden rule. If you do not fall into that category then i'll thank you for your participation so far in being the prime example why this nation desperatly needs to rediscover consideration and bid you good day.

 

[Shogun]

Those terms are like allowing a two week hunting season on a human being.

Thank you for your input. Im sure readers can find a similar sentiment from you in any other thread that touches on abortion. Ill thank you in advance for leaving this thread to those who are interested in reaching out to their opposites.


Good day.

 

[Abbey Normal]

Shogun, I appreciate that you are attempting to find middle ground, but for many people this is is truly a life and death issue, and not an area for compromise. I think you will find that trying to police a thread so that only people who meet your criteria for posting are acceptable is nigh impossible.

 

[Shogun]

I respect your attempt at finding common ground and wish you the best of luck. We are a polarized country--perhaps everyone has compromised thier beliefs to an extent where if they compromise them any further they will have to completely abandon thier causes.

and perhaps if we reach accross the isle we can discover that we have more in common than our polarized politics allows us to discover...

For instance.. do you think that the majority of those who are pro-abortion are merely looking to "allowing a two week hunting season on a human being."?

probably no more so than the average pro lifer wants to control women, true?


it boils back down to that golded rule. Thank you for your kind words... I'm getting the feeling that finding common ground is a lost cause.

 

[Shogun]

I respect your attempt at finding common ground and wish you the best of luck. We are a polarized country--perhaps everyone has compromised thier beliefs to an extent where if they compromise them any further they will have to completely abandon thier causes.

and perhaps if we reach accross the isle we can discover that we have more in common than our polarized politics allows us to discover...

For instance.. do you think that the majority of those who are pro-abortion are merely looking to "allowing a two week hunting season on a human being."?

probably no more so than the average pro lifer wants to merely control women, true?


it boils back down to that golded rule. Thank you for your kind words... I'm getting the feeling that finding common ground is a lost cause.

 

[dilloduck]

It isnt your position that I dont like. It is your automatic willingness to pounce without regard to any opinion that is not a carbon copy of your own. sure, you can overturn RvW with the current linup in the SCOTUS... but do you REALLY think that those who disagree with you will shrug their shoulders and walk away from the issue? when has that EVER happened without an act of bloodshed? dynamic tension, action and reaction, cause and effect. You may win for the next decade but do you REALLY think that such authority will last forever?

Again, I am not interested in argueing with you over something that you are obviously adamant about. I will respect your opinion if not your tenacity. I posted this thread for people willing to abide by the golden rule. If you do not fall into that category then i'll thank you for your participation so far in being the prime example why this nation desperatly needs to rediscover consideration and bid you good day.

Assuming that people have not considered the other point of view is a huge mistake. I know what the pro-abortionists want, I know why they want it and I know that they intend to conitinue to fight ( yes Fight) to keep it legal.
I just disagree as they disagree with me---what is it that you are offering as a resolution? That we disagree in a more polite manner?

 

[Shogun]

Shogun, I appreciate that you are attempting to find middle ground, but for many people this is is truly a life and death issue, and not an area for compromise. I think you will find that trying to police a thread so that only people who meet your criteria for posting are acceptable is nigh impossible.

How many threads does it take to convince everyone that that one is for or against something? Just as this is about life or death for some this is also about liberty and freedom for others.

Life, Liberty and property conveys that this nation was not founded merely on life nor liberty nor property.

Again, is it better to ignore the golden rule for temporary relief or consider the golden rule to find common belief?

thank you for you kind words, by the way. I am aware what kind of a task it is to wade into polarization and ask for consideration. I may not last in this forum but hopefully I will give someone something to think about. everything starts small.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

It isnt your position that I dont like. It is your automatic willingness to pounce without regard to any opinion that is not a carbon copy of your own. sure, you can overturn RvW with the current linup in the SCOTUS... but do you REALLY think that those who disagree with you will shrug their shoulders and walk away from the issue? when has that EVER happened without an act of bloodshed? dynamic tension, action and reaction, cause and effect. You may win for the next decade but do you REALLY think that such authority will last forever?

Again, I am not interested in argueing with you over something that you are obviously adamant about. I will respect your opinion if not your tenacity. I posted this thread for people willing to abide by the golden rule. If you do not fall into that category then i'll thank you for your participation so far in being the prime example why this nation desperatly needs to rediscover consideration and bid you good day.

Thank you for your input. Im sure readers can find a similar sentiment from you in any other thread that touches on abortion. Ill thank you in advance for leaving this thread to those who are interested in reaching out to their opposites.

Good day.

Once again, don't try to marginalize me and attempt to divide-and-conquer here. This is a free speech Board where everybody can weigh in, unlike the many liberal boards you probably frequent. Too bad if you don't like my challenging the entire premise of your post.

Hard decisions are made in America all the time without bloodshed through our VOTE. Don't think that we need to compromise on every topic. If liberals are determined to cause bloodshed in our country because their favorite legislation gets ousted, then that just goes to show how little they respect our laws and our American system.

Our country has done just fine for about 200 years without RvW. Once it is abolished we will continue to do just as fine as before and probably much better as a society than the years after RvW was put in place.

 

[Shogun]

Assuming that people have not considered the other point of view is a huge mistake. I know what the pro-abortionists want, I know why they want it and I know that they intend to conitinue to fight ( yes Fight) to keep it legal.
I just disagree as they disagree with me---what is it that you are offering as a resolution? That we disagree in a more polite manner?

Not only more polite, but be willing to give so that you can get. The abortion issue is a stalemate. even if RvW gets overturned the opposition will simply use it to energige THEIR camp and we will be stuck bouncing this issue back and forth. and granted, A LOT of people wont care to climb out of their foxhole and put down the rifle. Thats ok... because SOME people will. If I could snap my fingers and make it so then id have cannonized myself by now. I realise the limited scope of what im asking.

perhaps this is the wrong forum. perhaps this is the wrong time. perhaps it will take bloodshed to make people back down from their stubbornness. either way, you say that you you understand the position of your antithesis. GREAT!

now, will you admit that their opinions are just as valid as yours?

 

[The ClayTaurus]

I think the point is that there is either compromise through vitriole and head banging, or through politeness and respect.

Neither side will ever ever ever get their way. No one will ever get anything their way or the highway in this country.

Partisanship is the trendy thing to do these days.

 

[UnAmericanYOU]

sure, you can overturn RvW with the current linup in the SCOTUS... but do you REALLY think that those who disagree with you will shrug their shoulders and walk away from the issue?

That's not my point. Roe v. Wade was a terrible decision, a judical overreach that could have not been more polarizing.

What I REALLY think the aftermath of the overturn will be that a blue state like NY will immediantly pass a state version of Roe v. Wade, but a state like MI will ban them in virtually every case.

I REALLY think "swing" states like OH will do the "compromise".

In other words, the left will have to make their case instead of hiding behind the robes of SCOTUS judges (all-male in RvW, btw).

when has that EVER happened without an act of bloodshed?

Roe v. Wade, unless you're not "pro-choice", otherwise, abortion is bloodshed.

You may win for the next decade but do you REALLY think that such authority will last forever?

Back to the Roe Effect? No, didn't for NARAL, let's vote!

Again, I am not interested in argueing with you over something that you are obviously adamant about. I will respect your opinion if not your tenacity.

It's a polarizing issue because it's a polarizing topic.

I posted this thread for people willing to abide by the golden rule.

I'm not that picky about posters on any given thread, you should have bolded your rules IMO.

Do unto others? Don't hurt your back while you're stooping down!

If you do not fall into that category then i'll thank you for your participation so far in being the prime example why this nation desperatly needs to rediscover consideration and bid you good day.

Rather dismissive, huh? Well, I've got to go back to work, copy's on a deadline, so I'll bid you good day. Beaten to the punch?

 

[dilloduck]

Not only more polite, but be willing to give so that you can get. The abortion issue is a stalemate. even if RvW gets overturned the opposition will simply use it to energige THEIR camp and we will be stuck bouncing this issue back and forth. and granted, A LOT of people wont care to climb out of their foxhole and put down the rifle. Thats ok... because SOME people will. If I could snap my fingers and make it so then id have cannonized myself by now. I realise the limited scope of what im asking.

perhaps this is the wrong forum. perhaps this is the wrong time. perhaps it will take bloodshed to make people back down from their stubbornness. either way, you say that you you understand the position of your antithesis. GREAT!

now, will you admit that their opinions are just as valid as yours?

Both sides think they have "valid" points. If both sides "acknowledge" that the other side has valid points, we remain at odds. There's no sugar coating this one. The abortion issue while polarizing is far less damaging to US as a country than the argument on who are Americas' enemies and how to deal with them.

 

[Shogun]

Once again, don't try to marginalize me and attempt to divide-and-conquer here. This is a free speech Board where everybody can weigh in, unlike the many liberal boards you probably frequent. Too bad if you don't like my challenging the entire premise of your post.

Hard decisions are made in America all the time without bloodshed through our VOTE. Don't think that we need to compromise on every topic. If liberals are determined to cause bloodshed in our country because their favorite legislation gets ousted, then that just goes to show how little they respect our laws and our American system.

Our country has done just fine for about 200 years without RvW. Once it is abolished we will continue to do just as fine as before and probably much better as a society than the years after RvW was put in place.

As Ive said before, you can be polite and leave this thread to those who are willing to consider finding common ground or stick around and prove why such a thing is necessary. Ive already stated that some people will blindly disregard others and then wonder why they find themselves disregarded. those who live by the sword, no?

Now, if you want to sling mud around then ill have to remind you that so far the liberals dont have the eric rudolph stain on their hands. If you want to consider law ill remind you which side is busy shedding blood already rather than relying on the vote. Tim McVeigh wasnt a liberal. But I digress. Youve pissed on your territory already im sure. Please be considerate if you want to be considered.


ps, if you think that thomas jefferson and the rest of em were busy witchunting the prenatal behaviour of colonial women you might want to read a few more books. The pendelum might swing your way for the next decase (or you might get a giant disapointment too) but I assure you that you will not dictate this issue, nor any other, forever. IM trying to consider breaking a cycle you seem to enjoy.

 

[Shogun]

I think the point is that there is either compromise through vitriole and head banging, or through politeness and respect.

Neither side will ever ever ever get their way. No one will ever get anything their way or the highway in this country.

Partisanship is the trendy thing to do these days.

Thank you for making an effort to look beyond the issue. I appriciate the objectivity.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Not only more polite, but be willing to give so that you can get. The abortion issue is a stalemate. even if RvW gets overturned the opposition will simply use it to energige THEIR camp and we will be stuck bouncing this issue back and forth. and granted, A LOT of people wont care to climb out of their foxhole and put down the rifle. Thats ok... because SOME people will. If I could snap my fingers and make it so then id have cannonized myself by now. I realise the limited scope of what im asking.

perhaps this is the wrong forum. perhaps this is the wrong time. perhaps it will take bloodshed to make people back down from their stubbornness. either way, you say that you you understand the position of your antithesis. GREAT!

now, will you admit that their opinions are just as valid as yours?

Not necessarily. The Democrat Party never used to harbor the abortion issue in the past. Why should they necessarily continue to support the issue in the future? Times can change.

However, if the Far Left forces continue to be a force in this country the abortion issue will probably continue to exist. The Far Left ideology supports the "politics of death".

As Ive said before, you can be polite and leave this thread to those who are willing to consider finding common ground or stick around and prove why such a thing is necessary. Ive already stated that some people will blindly disregard others and then wonder why they find themselves disregarded. those who live by the sword, no?

Now, if you want to sling mud around then ill have to remind you that so far the liberals dont have the eric rudolph stain on their hands. If you want to consider law ill remind you which side is busy shedding blood already rather than relying on the vote. Tim McVeigh wasnt a liberal. But I digress. Youve pissed on your territory already im sure. Please be considerate if you want to be considered.


ps, if you think that thomas jefferson and the rest of em were busy witchunting the prenatal behaviour of colonial women you might want to read a few more books. The pendelum might swing your way for the next decase (or you might get a giant disapointment too) but I assure you that you will not dictate this issue, nor any other, forever. IM trying to consider breaking a cycle you seem to enjoy.

Give it up already.

 

[MissileMan]

The life of the FLESH is in the blood. But when does the SOUL enter? And it would be very difficult to pinpoint the exact moment that blood was formed. It's a process.

Do you suppose God is in the habit of wasting souls? Some 15% of fertilized eggs are miscarried. What happens to these souls? Do they go to hell because they didn't/couldn't accept Christ? Are they recycled? Do they go to heaven because they were innocent? If they go to heaven, what kind of identity would they assume? Are all of your miscarried eggs waiting to greet you when you get to heaven? How will you recognize them?

 

[Shogun]

Both sides think they have "valid" points. If both sides "acknowledge" that the other side has valid points, we remain at odds. There's no sugar coating this one. The abortion issue while polarizing is far less damaging to US as a country than the argument on who are Americas' enemies and how to deal with them.

Some on your side might disagree with you on which is more important, yes? Are you quicker to disregard conflicting opinions from those you are friends with or those you take as your enemies?

so, you admit that pro choicers have valid opinions. bitchin. If I said that, as a pro choicer, I would be willing to criminalize abortion procedures on ALL zygotes, including the earlier penalties and regulations, that exhibit ANY human characteristics including digit formation and a circulatory system (earlier than my EARLIER heartbeat compromise) for access to the same education and birth control examples including the morning after pill would you be willing to consider such an offer?

youd be getting

-banned abortions on ALL zygotes/feti that have formed human characteristics
-severe penalties for those who break this regulation
-a DRASTIC decrease in the rate of pregnancy terminations


Id be getting

-all necessary education regarding procreation
-all available methods of pre inception birth control methods and the morning after pill
-a federal amendment that clarifies the constitutional right to privacy in order to clear up RvW



ps, what if technology were developed that could incubate unwanted zygotes? would that change your position at all?

 

[MissileMan]

ps, what if technology were developed that could incubate unwanted zygotes? would that change your position at all?

The LAST thing we need are state-run fetus factories. Outlawing abortion isn't the answer...preventing unwanted pregnancies is.

 

[Shogun]

Not necessarily. The Democrat Party never used to harbor the abortion issue in the past. Why should they necessarily continue to support the issue in the future? Times can change.

However, if the Far Left forces continue to be a force in this country the abortion issue will probably continue to exist. The Far Left ideology supports the "politics of death".



Give it up already.

you said it yourself. TIMES CHANGE. your political affiliation wasnt always coming from the direction that you stand right now. Times do change. You dont exhist in a vacuum and your opinion does not conquer everything else on the rule of a single vote. what can be done can be undone. such is your hope with RvW. such is the evidence of prohibition. Again, you may find yourself winning today.. but it wont last. nothing does.


Thank you for proving my point regarding the necessity for consideration. Your actions are speaking louder than your words.


I hope you read a good book on our founding fathers and come to understand what they meant when using the word liberty. Ben Franklin was always my favorite.. Might I suggest, The Americanization of Ben Franklin by Gordon Wood?

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Americanization-Benjamin-Franklin-Gordon-Wood/dp/B000BNPGCI/sr=8-5/qid=1160604181/ref=pd_bbs_5/102-5287081-4700941?ie=UTF8&s=books"]http://www.amazon.com/Americanization-Benjamin-Franklin-Gordon-Wood/dp/B000BNPGCI/sr=8-5/qid=1160604181/ref=pd_bbs_5/102-5287081-4700941?ie=UTF8&s=books[/ame]

 

[Shogun]

The LAST thing we need are state-run fetus factories. Outlawing abortion isn't the answer...preventing unwanted pregnancies is.

Who says they would be state run? If we can allow widescale post natal adoption then why can we not allow the same regulation for zygotes? Would this not offer a greater screening period and greater preperation time for the future parents?

give and take, take and give.