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And if you do not worship god you will be cast into the lake of fire to suffer eternally?
Not if you are a mean or evil person, but just because you do not worship god.
I always had a problem with that one in convincing me that god loved all and was good.
I'm looking at the anti-Islam commentary against the religion as a whole, endorsing narrow-minded views with out ever once considering that Islam has depths and nuances, much like Christianity. It's a viewpoint that paints all Muslims as extremists while hypocritically holding to a different standard for Christianity.
Yes, but you said 'followed by many', and a handful of people posting in a thread on a message board seems a little bit of a narrow scope for making a comment like that about the 'many' who are christians.
I'm referring to those who profess to be Christians on this messageboard only - I'm not talking about Christians overall. And you are right, the scope is narrow, it's just that that grouping of people seem to have the loudest voices and the capacity to stir others to similar points of view. And then I have to wonder - when do words become action?
And I think the point of the thread is that Christians are told all the time that they should be tolerant, caring, and accepting of other's feelings and lifestyles, yet that same expectation is apparently not visited equally to other religious groups.
In this case, it's specifically muslims that are not expected to be caring, tolerant, or accepting of other's feelings towards what their fellow mulsims did to 3,000 innocent people. Why do you think the expectations are different? And be honest, if it was a bunch of christian whackos that killed all of those people and the same group wanted to build a church within spitting distance of the site of where it happened, who's side do you think those defending the mosque would be on then? I would bet a million bucks without the blink of an eye that they'd be protesting the church and the insensitivity of the christians wanting to place it there.
And what do you base that on? Are you not applying your own narrow scope here based upon what you see in the internet and media - the loudest and most hateful voices? Do you then judge the entire faith on those voices?
You seem to be doing exactly what you condemn others for doing.
Oh, I completely understand what you're saying, and that's a personal failing that has nothing to do with God tho, so not sure why that would be a part of it as if it were a cause. People can abuse anything and rationalize anything, God has nothing to do with that.
No. I don't think you understand at all what I'm saying.
And, yes. They can, can't they?
Yes, I do understand. Your poem implicates God as a reason, I'm saying that people can use God as a reason, but that doesn't mean that God is a reason that people can be that way.
People can use religion as a reason for their shortcomings of being blinded by righteousness, but it's their own failing and has nothing to do with religion. The Bible warns often of exactly what you are describing, being full of righteousness and truth. I think many people critically think about their faith and question it and seek the answers to those questions. Some may not and could be described as you said, but I think that most are not that way.
Yes, but you said 'followed by many', and a handful of people posting in a thread on a message board seems a little bit of a narrow scope for making a comment like that about the 'many' who are christians.
I'm referring to those who profess to be Christians on this messageboard only - I'm not talking about Christians overall. And you are right, the scope is narrow, it's just that that grouping of people seem to have the loudest voices and the capacity to stir others to similar points of view. And then I have to wonder - when do words become action?
And I think the point of the thread is that Christians are told all the time that they should be tolerant, caring, and accepting of other's feelings and lifestyles, yet that same expectation is apparently not visited equally to other religious groups.
In this case, it's specifically muslims that are not expected to be caring, tolerant, or accepting of other's feelings towards what their fellow mulsims did to 3,000 innocent people. Why do you think the expectations are different? And be honest, if it was a bunch of christian whackos that killed all of those people and the same group wanted to build a church within spitting distance of the site of where it happened, who's side do you think those defending the mosque would be on then? I would bet a million bucks without the blink of an eye that they'd be protesting the church and the insensitivity of the christians wanting to place it there.
And what do you base that on? Are you not applying your own narrow scope here based upon what you see in the internet and media - the loudest and most hateful voices? Do you then judge the entire faith on those voices?
You seem to be doing exactly what you condemn others for doing.
You mean just like the group who felt compelled to get on this thread that The Light made with nothing but good will and basically trash it with their crap? If so, then I can definitely relate.
I'm basing my views on how I'm seeing the mosque being defended by a specific group of people on here as well as in the media, it's quite telling. And if the muslims were apologetic and sensitive to other's feelings, they wouldn't have picked that sight for a mosque, nor would they have named it what they were originally planning on naming it.
No. I don't think you understand at all what I'm saying.
And, yes. They can, can't they?
Yes, I do understand. Your poem implicates God as a reason, I'm saying that people can use God as a reason, but that doesn't mean that God is a reason that people can be that way.
No, of course it doesn't - but passion can overrule reason, with it's religious passion or ideological passions, they can blind us momentarily.
People can use religion as a reason for their shortcomings of being blinded by righteousness, but it's their own failing and has nothing to do with religion. The Bible warns often of exactly what you are describing, being full of righteousness and truth. I think many people critically think about their faith and question it and seek the answers to those questions. Some may not and could be described as you said, but I think that most are not that way.
I agree, accept for the "most". I do not know most Christians, just as you do not know most Muslims. I can not make that sort of judgement. I think we all wrestle with human nature, and we interpret our chosen faith's in different ways.
Who's to say who is right or wrong? Everyone seems to be able to find scripture to suit their purpose whether it's in the Koran or the Bible or the Book of Mormon.
I'm looking at the anti-Islam commentary against the religion as a whole, endorsing narrow-minded views with out ever once considering that Islam has depths and nuances, much like Christianity. It's a viewpoint that paints all Muslims as extremists while hypocritically holding to a different standard for Christianity.
Yes, but you said 'followed by many', and a handful of people posting in a thread on a message board seems a little bit of a narrow scope for making a comment like that about the 'many' who are christians.
And I think the point of the thread is that Christians are told all the time that they should be tolerant, caring, and accepting of other's feelings and lifestyles, yet that same expectation is apparently not visited equally to other religious groups. In this case, it's specifically muslims that are not expected to be caring, tolerant, or accepting of other's feelings towards what their fellow mulsims did to 3,000 innocent people. Why do you think the expectations are different? And be honest, if it was a bunch of christian whackos that killed all of those people and the same group wanted to build a church within spitting distance of the site of where it happened, who's side do you think those defending the mosque would be on then? I would bet a million bucks without the blink of an eye that they'd be protesting the church and the insensitivity of the christians wanting to place it there.
You know......Christians regularly denounce some of the fringe idiots of their faith.
Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church is a good example.
I want to know why the Muslims in American haven't denounced their fringe whackos?
I'm referring to those who profess to be Christians on this messageboard only - I'm not talking about Christians overall. And you are right, the scope is narrow, it's just that that grouping of people seem to have the loudest voices and the capacity to stir others to similar points of view. And then I have to wonder - when do words become action?
And what do you base that on? Are you not applying your own narrow scope here based upon what you see in the internet and media - the loudest and most hateful voices? Do you then judge the entire faith on those voices?
You seem to be doing exactly what you condemn others for doing.
You mean just like the group who felt compelled to get on this thread that The Light made with nothing but good will and basically trash it with their crap? If so, then I can definitely relate.
That's the nature of the messageboard.
I'm basing my views on how I'm seeing the mosque being defended by a specific group of people on here as well as in the media, it's quite telling. And if the muslims were apologetic and sensitive to other's feelings, they wouldn't have picked that sight for a mosque, nor would they have named it what they were originally planning on naming it.
It is also quite telling, to see the media and groups of people here trashing the objectives of Cordoba project, and trashing the Islamic faiths.
You do not see this do you?
It might be worthwhile, as a Christian, to explore what the history of Cordoba really is and means. Don't just take Newt's word for it.
Yes, I do understand. Your poem implicates God as a reason, I'm saying that people can use God as a reason, but that doesn't mean that God is a reason that people can be that way.
No, of course it doesn't - but passion can overrule reason, with it's religious passion or ideological passions, they can blind us momentarily.
People can use religion as a reason for their shortcomings of being blinded by righteousness, but it's their own failing and has nothing to do with religion. The Bible warns often of exactly what you are describing, being full of righteousness and truth. I think many people critically think about their faith and question it and seek the answers to those questions. Some may not and could be described as you said, but I think that most are not that way.
I agree, accept for the "most". I do not know most Christians, just as you do not know most Muslims. I can not make that sort of judgement. I think we all wrestle with human nature, and we interpret our chosen faith's in different ways.
Who's to say who is right or wrong? Everyone seems to be able to find scripture to suit their purpose whether it's in the Koran or the Bible or the Book of Mormon.
My view on that is that only you have to be at peace with what you believe, it's as simple as that. I would never try to force my beliefs on anyone else, and I only expect the same of those around me. I don't know much about the muslim religion, but from what I have seen, it doesn't seem as though they have the same philosophy.
You mean just like the group who felt compelled to get on this thread that The Light made with nothing but good will and basically trash it with their crap? If so, then I can definitely relate.
That's the nature of the messageboard.
I'm basing my views on how I'm seeing the mosque being defended by a specific group of people on here as well as in the media, it's quite telling. And if the muslims were apologetic and sensitive to other's feelings, they wouldn't have picked that sight for a mosque, nor would they have named it what they were originally planning on naming it.
It is also quite telling, to see the media and groups of people here trashing the objectives of Cordoba project, and trashing the Islamic faiths.
You do not see this do you?
It might be worthwhile, as a Christian, to explore what the history of Cordoba really is and means. Don't just take Newt's word for it.
I know what the history is. Tell me how you come to a different conclusion?
A thread dedicated to the Creator of the Universe and the Saviour of all mankind, Jesus Christ!
the goodness of god can be overestimated and it usually is.
condemning billions of good and decent people to eternal hell fire simply because they didn't believe in god
or because they had sex outside of marriage
or got divorced
or were gay
doesn't sound so "good" to me.
No, of course it doesn't - but passion can overrule reason, with it's religious passion or ideological passions, they can blind us momentarily.
I agree, accept for the "most". I do not know most Christians, just as you do not know most Muslims. I can not make that sort of judgement. I think we all wrestle with human nature, and we interpret our chosen faith's in different ways.
Who's to say who is right or wrong? Everyone seems to be able to find scripture to suit their purpose whether it's in the Koran or the Bible or the Book of Mormon.
My view on that is that only you have to be at peace with what you believe, it's as simple as that. I would never try to force my beliefs on anyone else, and I only expect the same of those around me. I don't know much about the muslim religion, but from what I have seen, it doesn't seem as though they have the same philosophy.
In that we agree, I feel the same way.
Islam has a great deal of depth that is not explored in popular media and propaganda that prefers to sensationalize the extremists, and that includes living in peace with other faiths. The Sufi sect in particular, is worth learning about if you stay clear of the anti-Islamic sites.
That's the nature of the messageboard.
It is also quite telling, to see the media and groups of people here trashing the objectives of Cordoba project, and trashing the Islamic faiths.
You do not see this do you?
It might be worthwhile, as a Christian, to explore what the history of Cordoba really is and means. Don't just take Newt's word for it.
I know what the history is. Tell me how you come to a different conclusion?
http://www.usmessageboard.com/2602127-post310.html
My view on that is that only you have to be at peace with what you believe, it's as simple as that. I would never try to force my beliefs on anyone else, and I only expect the same of those around me. I don't know much about the muslim religion, but from what I have seen, it doesn't seem as though they have the same philosophy.
In that we agree, I feel the same way.
Islam has a great deal of depth that is not explored in popular media and propaganda that prefers to sensationalize the extremists, and that includes living in peace with other faiths. The Sufi sect in particular, is worth learning about if you stay clear of the anti-Islamic sites.
Islam is much more than a religion. You are held to their religious standards and beliefs under their legal system, there is not separation of church and state. They do not respect women's rights, and until they do and they separate the political and legal implications of it, I will not see it as merely a religion.
I know what the history is. Tell me how you come to a different conclusion?
http://www.usmessageboard.com/2602127-post310.html
From what I understand they've razed the biggest church in any area they've conquered and placed a mosque in it's place as a symbol of their supremacy and dominion. You're saying that's not true?
He is a father so loving, he tortured and killed his only son.
Its funny how a thread with this title would attract the God/religious-hating atheists.
He is a father so loving, he tortured and killed his only son.
He didn't torture and kill His only son, men did.
From what I understand they've razed the biggest church in any area they've conquered and placed a mosque in it's place as a symbol of their supremacy and dominion. You're saying that's not true?
According to who?
Many Christian churches were built upon the destroyed remains of pagan religious centers when Christians conquored territories. In fact, I strongly suspect that many conquoring religions did just that, to make a point of the dominance of their beliefs on the conquored peoples.
What I can't figure out is why Islam is singled out in this regard.
As far as Cordoba - read what that Medievil scholar has to say.
According to Wikipedia: It was captured in 711[3] by a Muslim army
for a ruler to be legitimate in Muslim eyes in the tenth century, during the time when the Great Mosque was being expanded into its present-day dimensions, it was important to emphasize the peaceful succession of Islam from the other religions in the area.
And why did their religion have to have dominance, why did people have to convert at the end of a sword to their religion?
From what I understand they've razed the biggest church in any area they've conquered and placed a mosque in it's place as a symbol of their supremacy and dominion. You're saying that's not true?
According to who?
Many Christian churches were built upon the destroyed remains of pagan religious centers when Christians conquored territories. In fact, I strongly suspect that many conquoring religions did just that, to make a point of the dominance of their beliefs on the conquored peoples.
What I can't figure out is why Islam is singled out in this regard.
As far as Cordoba - read what that Medievil scholar has to say.
According to history.
Christians are no longer tearing down other's churches and replacing them with their own like they did hundreds of years ago. Islam is singled out because they are still doing it.
I read it... I found this interesting...
From the post that you linked...
According to Wikipedia: It was captured in 711[3] by a Muslim army
for a ruler to be legitimate in Muslim eyes in the tenth century, during the time when the Great Mosque was being expanded into its present-day dimensions, it was important to emphasize the peaceful succession of Islam from the other religions in the area.
Do you get the irony in that at all?
Its funny how a thread with this title would attract the God/religious-hating atheists.
He is a father so loving, he tortured and killed his only son.
He didn't torture and kill His only son, men did.
But being all knowing, He would have known what was going to happen and intervened by crushing every human being on the planet and starting over with human V2.0.
Its funny how a thread with this title would attract the God/religious-hating atheists.
He is a father so loving, he tortured and killed his only son.
He didn't torture and kill His only son, men did.
But being all knowing, He would have known what was going to happen and intervened by crushing every human being on the planet and starting over with human V2.0.
