The Goal of Health Care Reform

[dblack]

While I agree with you, most people are looking at more tangible problems when they think of health care reform. And there are plenty of real problems with the health care market. But if we're not clear on what problems we're trying to solve, we won't be able to agree on government policy.

For example, if health care prices are growing out of control because of health insurance, then we need to stop promoting over-insurance with government subsidies and incentives. But for some people, the whole point of health care reform is to maximize participation on health insurance on the theory that it will bring down the cost of insurance premiums. Still others think it's a crime that anyone should have to pay for their health care - that health care should be "free" - ie paid for by taxpayers in general given out as needed (whatever that means). All these goals contradict each other to some extent.

I'm not saying we have to choose only one goal - but if we have multiple goals, we need to understand how the contradict each other and deal with those contradictions.

you keep missing the point that government policy is directly connected to the rise in prices and changing policy will not do anything but confuse and make it worse,,,

I not missing your point. Your point is just wrong. If we want to undo the damage from decades of bad government policies, we need to change those policies. If we just sit on our hands, the same bad policies will keep driving prices higher.

you keep using change when you should be using undo and remove,,,

Undoing and removing is changing. Seems you're just looking for something to disagree about.

wrong,,,change means exactly that,,,change to something else

remove and undo also mean exactly that,,,after its said and done nothing of the old remains IE government intervention,,,

besides what you want to do is change to something else

Sounds like you know what I want, and I don't. Tell me more.

 

[progressive hunter]

you keep missing the point that government policy is directly connected to the rise in prices and changing policy will not do anything but confuse and make it worse,,,

I not missing your point. Your point is just wrong. If we want to undo the damage from decades of bad government policies, we need to change those policies. If we just sit on our hands, the same bad policies will keep driving prices higher.

you keep using change when you should be using undo and remove,,,

Undoing and removing is changing. Seems you're just looking for something to disagree about.

wrong,,,change means exactly that,,,change to something else

remove and undo also mean exactly that,,,after its said and done nothing of the old remains IE government intervention,,,

besides what you want to do is change to something else

Sounds like you know what I want, and I don't. Tell me more.

then tell me what you want to do,,,cause everything so far just sounds like more government policy,,,

 

[dblack]

I not missing your point. Your point is just wrong. If we want to undo the damage from decades of bad government policies, we need to change those policies. If we just sit on our hands, the same bad policies will keep driving prices higher.

you keep using change when you should be using undo and remove,,,

Undoing and removing is changing. Seems you're just looking for something to disagree about.

wrong,,,change means exactly that,,,change to something else

remove and undo also mean exactly that,,,after its said and done nothing of the old remains IE government intervention,,,

besides what you want to do is change to something else

Sounds like you know what I want, and I don't. Tell me more.

then tell me what you want to do,,,cause everything so far just sounds like more government policy,,,

The purpose of this thread is to encourage discussion about the purpose of health care reform, to identify the problems we're trying to solve. If we can't agree on that, there's no point talking about specific policies. I happen to think the biggest problem with health care is runaway price inflation. If we can't get that under control, no one will be able to afford health care. But if I'm discussing health care reform with someone who thinks the main problem is the fact that we have to pay for health care at all - that it should be "free" - well, there's not much point in talking about policy with that person. They have an entirely different agenda and we're never going to agree on policy because we have different goals.

Often, in discussing this topic, we jump right to arguing over solutions without recognizing that the goals are different. And that's pointless. If we can't agree in the goal, we're never going to agree on how to get there.

 

[progressive hunter]

you keep using change when you should be using undo and remove,,,

Undoing and removing is changing. Seems you're just looking for something to disagree about.

wrong,,,change means exactly that,,,change to something else

remove and undo also mean exactly that,,,after its said and done nothing of the old remains IE government intervention,,,

besides what you want to do is change to something else

Sounds like you know what I want, and I don't. Tell me more.

then tell me what you want to do,,,cause everything so far just sounds like more government policy,,,

The purpose of this thread is to encourage discussion about the purpose of health care reform, to identify the problems we're trying to solve. If we can't agree on that, there's no point talking about specific policies. I happen to think the biggest problem with health care is runaway price inflation. If we can't get that under control, no one will be able to afford health care. But if I'm discussing health care reform with someone who thinks the main problem is the fact that we have to pay for health care at all - that it should be "free" - well, there's not much point in talking about policy with that person. They have an entirely different agenda and we're never going to agree on policy because we have different goals.

Often, in discussing this topic, we jump right to arguing over solutions without recognizing that the goals are different. And that's pointless. If we can't agree in the goal, we're never going to agree on how to get there.

well my goal is a fee market system where as yours seem to be a more socialist system,,,which is in violation of the constitution

 

[dblack]

well my goal is a fee market system where as yours seem to be a more socialist system,,,which is in violation of the constitution

WTF?? How does that "seem" to be my goal? Where and when have I EVER advocated for such a thing?

 

[progressive hunter]

well my goal is a fee market system where as yours seem to be a more socialist system,,,which is in violation of the constitution

WTF?? How does that "seem" to be my goal? Where and when have I EVER advocated for such a thing?

when your only solution is government policy and not the free market

 

[dblack]

well my goal is a fee market system where as yours seem to be a more socialist system,,,which is in violation of the constitution

WTF?? How does that "seem" to be my goal? Where and when have I EVER advocated for such a thing?

when your only solution is government policy and not the free market

You're nuts man. Not sure how to respond when you're simply making shit up.

 

[progressive hunter]

well my goal is a fee market system where as yours seem to be a more socialist system,,,which is in violation of the constitution

WTF?? How does that "seem" to be my goal? Where and when have I EVER advocated for such a thing?

when your only solution is government policy and not the free market

You're nuts man. Not sure how to respond when you're simply making shit up.

again then tell us your solution,,,,

 

[dblack]

well my goal is a fee market system where as yours seem to be a more socialist system,,,which is in violation of the constitution

WTF?? How does that "seem" to be my goal? Where and when have I EVER advocated for such a thing?

when your only solution is government policy and not the free market

You're nuts man. Not sure how to respond when you're simply making shit up.

again then tell us your solution,,,,

You know, I started to indulge you. But you've been such a boneheaded prick, I'll not bother. There are many other threads where I've described my preferred solution. That's not the point of this thread. You're clearly just a troll, spoiling for a fight. Piss off.

 

[progressive hunter]

well my goal is a fee market system where as yours seem to be a more socialist system,,,which is in violation of the constitution

WTF?? How does that "seem" to be my goal? Where and when have I EVER advocated for such a thing?

when your only solution is government policy and not the free market

You're nuts man. Not sure how to respond when you're simply making shit up.

again then tell us your solution,,,,

You know, I started to indulge you. But you've been such a boneheaded prick, I'll not bother. There are many other threads where I've described my preferred solution. That's not the point of this thread. You're clearly just a troll, spoiling for a fight. Piss off.

or youre just a socialist and dont want to admit it,,,

its OK though I am used to you guys bailing out of debate

might I suggest when you decide what you want with your life you leave me out of it,,,

 

[dblack]

WTF?? How does that "seem" to be my goal? Where and when have I EVER advocated for such a thing?

when your only solution is government policy and not the free market

You're nuts man. Not sure how to respond when you're simply making shit up.

again then tell us your solution,,,,

You know, I started to indulge you. But you've been such a boneheaded prick, I'll not bother. There are many other threads where I've described my preferred solution. That's not the point of this thread. You're clearly just a troll, spoiling for a fight. Piss off.

or youre just a socialist and dont want to admit it,,,

its OK though I am used to you guys bailing out of debate

might I suggest when you decide what you want with your life you leave me out of it,,,

Agreed. I don't need idiots like you on my 'side'.

 

[progressive hunter]

when your only solution is government policy and not the free market

You're nuts man. Not sure how to respond when you're simply making shit up.

again then tell us your solution,,,,

You know, I started to indulge you. But you've been such a boneheaded prick, I'll not bother. There are many other threads where I've described my preferred solution. That's not the point of this thread. You're clearly just a troll, spoiling for a fight. Piss off.

or youre just a socialist and dont want to admit it,,,

its OK though I am used to you guys bailing out of debate

might I suggest when you decide what you want with your life you leave me out of it,,,

Agreed. I don't need idiots like you on my 'side'.

so wanting to be the decider of my own life without government force makes me an idiot???

well opinions vary,,,


or it could be you suffer from alinskyism and when you cant debunk the message you attack the messenger

 

[dblack]

so wanting to be the decider of my own life without government force makes me an idiot???

Sure. Whatever man. We're going to get more and more socialism, and it will be because of idiots like you.

 

[progressive hunter]

so wanting to be the decider of my own life without government force makes me an idiot???

Sure. Whatever man. We're going to get more and more socialism, and it will be because of idiots like you.

says the person pushing a socialist agenda,,,

 

[dblack]

so wanting to be the decider of my own life without government force makes me an idiot???

Sure. Whatever man. We're going to get more and more socialism, and it will be because of idiots like you.

says the person pushing a socialist agenda,,,

OK. Here's your chance to prove you're not a moron. Quote me pushing a socialist agenda. Feel free to search all of my posting history. Good luck!

 

[progressive hunter]

so wanting to be the decider of my own life without government force makes me an idiot???

Sure. Whatever man. We're going to get more and more socialism, and it will be because of idiots like you.

says the person pushing a socialist agenda,,,

OK. Here's your chance to prove you're not a moron. Quote me pushing a socialist agenda. Feel free to search all of my posting history. Good luck!

the very fact you want the government to create a solution through policy instead of letting the free market decide,,,

my life is not for the feds to decide,,,or you,,,,

and again thats not even getting into the unconstitutional aspect of it,,,

 

[dblack]

so wanting to be the decider of my own life without government force makes me an idiot???

Sure. Whatever man. We're going to get more and more socialism, and it will be because of idiots like you.

says the person pushing a socialist agenda,,,

OK. Here's your chance to prove you're not a moron. Quote me pushing a socialist agenda. Feel free to search all of my posting history. Good luck!

the very fact you want the government to create a solution through policy instead of letting the free market decide,,,

my life is not for the feds to decide,,,or you,,,,

Quote me saying that, or anything like that. You can't. You're a trigged nitwit with limited reading comprehension.

 

[progressive hunter]

so wanting to be the decider of my own life without government force makes me an idiot???

Sure. Whatever man. We're going to get more and more socialism, and it will be because of idiots like you.

says the person pushing a socialist agenda,,,

OK. Here's your chance to prove you're not a moron. Quote me pushing a socialist agenda. Feel free to search all of my posting history. Good luck!

the very fact you want the government to create a solution through policy instead of letting the free market decide,,,

my life is not for the feds to decide,,,or you,,,,

Quote me saying that, or anything like that. You can't. You're a trigged nitwit with limited reading comprehension.

then you agree with me that the fed government needs to get out of it and let the free market should decide???

 

[dblack]

Sure. Whatever man. We're going to get more and more socialism, and it will be because of idiots like you.

says the person pushing a socialist agenda,,,

OK. Here's your chance to prove you're not a moron. Quote me pushing a socialist agenda. Feel free to search all of my posting history. Good luck!

the very fact you want the government to create a solution through policy instead of letting the free market decide,,,

my life is not for the feds to decide,,,or you,,,,

Quote me saying that, or anything like that. You can't. You're a trigged nitwit with limited reading comprehension.

then you agree with me that the fed government needs to get out of it and let the free market should decide???

I can't say I agree with you because you seem utterly confused and incoherent. I do think the best solution is to get the government out of health care altogether, but that's not what the thread is about. Apparently the actual topic is too subtle for a triggered Trumpster to comprehend.

 

[progressive hunter]

says the person pushing a socialist agenda,,,

OK. Here's your chance to prove you're not a moron. Quote me pushing a socialist agenda. Feel free to search all of my posting history. Good luck!

the very fact you want the government to create a solution through policy instead of letting the free market decide,,,

my life is not for the feds to decide,,,or you,,,,

Quote me saying that, or anything like that. You can't. You're a trigged nitwit with limited reading comprehension.

then you agree with me that the fed government needs to get out of it and let the free market should decide???

I can't say I agree with you because you seem utterly confused and incoherent. I do think the best solution is to get the government out of health care altogether, but that's not what the thread is about. Apparently the actual topic is too subtle for a triggered Trumpster to comprehend.

so its now about trump,,,figures,,,

I will let you know I dont like trump and didnt vote for him and one big reason is he wants a government ran healthcare,,,

I am confused that throughout your comments you talk about policy,,,
and not one time have you stated for a free market system,,,