The Future of American Muslims - Is There a Vision?

Sunni Man

Diamond Member
Aug 14, 2008
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Patriotic American Muslim
Last month in July 2009, Rick Warren, a popular evangelical Christian pastor was the keynote speaker at the ISNA (Islamic Society of North America) conference. Pastor Warren’s speech was welcomed by many American Muslim organizations, leaders and community members. This is because the expression of friendship by such a leader in a conference attended by 45,000 Muslims was first of its kind in America. His speech was perceived by American Muslims as a positive step in helping to bridge any misunderstandings between Muslims and Christians of America.


However it can be easily argued that to many American Muslims, his coming to the conference signified a symbol of their acceptance in the American society. While Pastor Warren’s friendly presence may have sent that message, the contents of his speech underscored how American Muslims’ efforts to position themselves in the American society may have been falling short. This was clear from many of his comments. For example, during the past few years American Muslim leaders’ mantra has been to demand tolerance in response to the intimidation that Muslims have suffered on various fronts. However, Pastor Warren reminded Muslims that “Tolerance is not enough. People do not want to be tolerated, they want to be respected. They want to be treated with dignity. They want to be listened to.” This therefore was a clear wakeup call that American Muslims should not have merely stopped at demanding tolerance, whereas respect and dignity should have been a right that American Muslims should never have compromised on.

American Muslims have also complained about the media’s bias toward them in recent years. While American Muslims have been trying to fix that image, their efforts surely have fallen short. Pastor Warren further validated this by stating “And since today much of the press is actually clueless of what you believe, and as to what I believe, and then there are frequent mischaracterizations in the media, frequent ignorant generalizations, generalizations are generally wrong, and frequent stereotyping, of all of us”. This told American Muslims and their leaders about how far they are from “clueing in” the media and others to prevent, or at a minimum curb such mischaracterizations and ignorant generalizations.

Among other things, American Muslim leaders have also been focusing on “Interfaith Dialog” as one of the avenues to bridge gaps with other faiths in America. However, Pastor Warren’s suggestion that in such matters action goes further than dialog was more appealing. He commented: “And I will tell you that I am not interested in interfaith dialogue, I am interested in interfaith projects. There is a big difference. Talk is very cheap. And you can talk and talk and talk and not get anything done.”
Finally, for those few American Muslims who have wrongly believed that assimilation within the American society can only be achieved by compromising ones Islamic values and principles, the statement by Pastor Warren “maintaining our separate traditions, maintaining our convictions without compromise” echoed what mainstream Muslims believe in but is doubted by a certain segment of American Muslims

The above clearly highlights the need to fill the voids and gaps in the vision for American Muslims. Although American Muslim organizations have been undertaking a number of focused and proactive steps to better American Muslims’ positioning for the future, there are a number of questions that must be asked to gauge their efforts. Some of the key questions are as follows:

1) Are American Muslims any closer to Islam and their mosques today than before?

2) Are the outreach efforts and tactics of Muslims making a difference in clarifying the message of Islam?

3) Does the Muslim leadership have a strategic vision to improve the relationship with the US government that is constantly being viewed by many American Muslims as challenging or are the efforts of American Muslims merely reactive and stop-gap in nature?

4) Are the Islamic centers, mosques, masajids, etc. organized well enough to attract Muslims and non-Muslims alike for transparent dissemination of the message of Islam?

5) Who are the Imams and leaders who American Muslims have put on the podiums and how effective have they been in uniting their local communities?

6) And finally, what specifically is being done to get Muslims involved in the democratic process of America to be able for them to make their voices heard?


These questions must be debated and discussed strategically to be able to craft a vision for the American Muslims for this century.

Islamic Blog - A Muslim Blog covering Middle Eastern, Islamic and Muslim issues - Arab blog
 
Sunni--

What is your personal reaction to this? I don't think much of Rick Warren myself. Does he speak for you?
 
However, Pastor Warren reminded Muslims that “Tolerance is not enough. People do not want to be tolerated, they want to be respected. They want to be treated with dignity. They want to be listened to.”



Like how you accept and respect homosexuals and jews?
“And since today much of the press is actually clueless of what you believe, and as to what I believe, and then there are frequent mischaracterizations in the media, frequent ignorant generalizations, generalizations are generally wrong, and frequent stereotyping, of all of us”.

Kinda like your stereotyping of and intolerance towards gays? You complain about people questioning your beliefs and the books you claim are your source of morality and justice, yet you discriminate against a person's ataure, when their sexuality has never harmed anyone?
This told American Muslims and their leaders about how far they are from “clueing in” the media and others to prevent, or at a minimum curb such mischaracterizations and ignorant generalizations.

So you support getting the message out to educate people about homosexuality, yes?
He commented: “And I will tell you that I am not interested in interfaith dialogue, I am interested in interfaith projects. There is a big difference. Talk is very cheap. And you can talk and talk and talk and not get anything done.”

So you support bringing conservatives/reactionaries and ignorant bigots like yourself together alongside homosexuals to learn to live together and encourage respect and acceptance, yes?


Finally, for those few American Muslims who have wrongly believed that assimilation within the American society can only be achieved by compromising ones Islamic values and principles, the statement by Pastor Warren “maintaining our separate traditions, maintaining our convictions without compromise” echoed what mainstream Muslims believe in but is doubted by a certain segment of American Muslims

Which traditions are those? If you'
re talking about praying five times a day, then fine, you're free to do that. If you're referring to sharia law, then fuck off and die- I hope you hang in a tree next to a torie on one side and a Bolshevik on the other.

The above clearly highlights the need to fill the voids and gaps in the vision for American Muslims.

Really? How about were delete the word 'muslims' and pluralize American?


1) Are American Muslims any closer to Islam and their mosques today than before?
Is it any of your concern?
2) Are the outreach efforts and tactics of Muslims making a difference in clarifying the message of Islam?

Replace 'muslims' with homosexuals and 'islam' with homosexuality and we'll see how tolerant you are. I recall a number of posts by you that show your true nature.
 
It's just Muslims demanding that they be placed in their rightful place above all others.
 
Has Islam Reformed?

Has Islam renounced Slavery? People are not property.

Has Islam accepted equality in justice? Without partiality?

Does Islam respect Societies Law of the Land in general, or ignore it?

My Issue is not the words one uses when in prayer, or by what name our maker is addressed, it is with the lack of that realization in relation to others.
 
Sunni--

What is your personal reaction to this? I don't think much of Rick Warren myself. Does he speak for you?
I thought Rick Warren was fair and did a good job with his speech.

He brought up several points that the Islamic community needs to address and discuss.

Most Islamic conventions I have attended were muslim scholars giving lectures to a muslim audiance.

It was good to hear the views of someone from outside of the community.
 
Islam reformed. lol, ya to bring it up to the 12th century maybe. It would be interesting to know how backwards muslims think they are. I mean, technologically, morally, socially and style wise, they have to realize that they're about 500 years behind the rest of us.
So according to the muslims at this board, do muslims in general know how behind the times they are? Or don't care?
In technology, I agree muslims have fallen behind but are rapidly catching up.

Morally and socially, muslims are WAY ahead of the West which has fallen into decadence and gross immorality.

Style??
 
In technology, I agree muslims have fallen behind but are rapidly catching up.

Morally and socially, muslims are WAY ahead of the West which has fallen into decadence and gross immorality.

Style??

I take umbrage with that. :) Upon what do you base your assertion that Muslims are not competing with the west in decadence and gross immorality?
Any examples that you give me, I can counter with some of my own. Whether gross immorality refers to a promiscuous teenager with many "baby's daddies" or a 60 year old man engaging in multiple marriages (marrying and divorcing to keep within the proscribed 4 limit) to brides sometimes no older then 12....neither has cornered the market on immorality.

Decadence? Well, if you make the argument of sheer volume of material goods, then of course the "West" has more of a financial ability to indulge themselves. That doesn't mean that Muslims in the developing world don't hanker for and purchase iphones and nikes. The mentality is the same. Rampant materialism is an issue everywhere. Only the poorest people on earth are safe from it.

Style? Well, Muslims have those nifty hats (I don't know what you call them) and thobes are pretty cool too. But we have Levis 501. Case closed. :lol:
 
The future of muslims? They are going to inbreed themselves out of existance. Anyways, they are irrelevant to the world.
 
Last month in July 2009, Rick Warren, a popular evangelical Christian pastor was the keynote speaker at the ISNA (Islamic Society of North America) conference. Pastor Warren’s speech was welcomed by many American Muslim organizations, leaders and community members. This is because the expression of friendship by such a leader in a conference attended by 45,000 Muslims was first of its kind in America. His speech was perceived by American Muslims as a positive step in helping to bridge any misunderstandings between Muslims and Christians of America.


However it can be easily argued that to many American Muslims, his coming to the conference signified a symbol of their acceptance in the American society. While Pastor Warren’s friendly presence may have sent that message, the contents of his speech underscored how American Muslims’ efforts to position themselves in the American society may have been falling short. This was clear from many of his comments. For example, during the past few years American Muslim leaders’ mantra has been to demand tolerance in response to the intimidation that Muslims have suffered on various fronts. However, Pastor Warren reminded Muslims that “Tolerance is not enough. People do not want to be tolerated, they want to be respected. They want to be treated with dignity. They want to be listened to.” This therefore was a clear wakeup call that American Muslims should not have merely stopped at demanding tolerance, whereas respect and dignity should have been a right that American Muslims should never have compromised on.

American Muslims have also complained about the media’s bias toward them in recent years. While American Muslims have been trying to fix that image, their efforts surely have fallen short. Pastor Warren further validated this by stating “And since today much of the press is actually clueless of what you believe, and as to what I believe, and then there are frequent mischaracterizations in the media, frequent ignorant generalizations, generalizations are generally wrong, and frequent stereotyping, of all of us”. This told American Muslims and their leaders about how far they are from “clueing in” the media and others to prevent, or at a minimum curb such mischaracterizations and ignorant generalizations.

Among other things, American Muslim leaders have also been focusing on “Interfaith Dialog” as one of the avenues to bridge gaps with other faiths in America. However, Pastor Warren’s suggestion that in such matters action goes further than dialog was more appealing. He commented: “And I will tell you that I am not interested in interfaith dialogue, I am interested in interfaith projects. There is a big difference. Talk is very cheap. And you can talk and talk and talk and not get anything done.”
Finally, for those few American Muslims who have wrongly believed that assimilation within the American society can only be achieved by compromising ones Islamic values and principles, the statement by Pastor Warren “maintaining our separate traditions, maintaining our convictions without compromise” echoed what mainstream Muslims believe in but is doubted by a certain segment of American Muslims

The above clearly highlights the need to fill the voids and gaps in the vision for American Muslims. Although American Muslim organizations have been undertaking a number of focused and proactive steps to better American Muslims’ positioning for the future, there are a number of questions that must be asked to gauge their efforts. Some of the key questions are as follows:

1) Are American Muslims any closer to Islam and their mosques today than before?

2) Are the outreach efforts and tactics of Muslims making a difference in clarifying the message of Islam?

3) Does the Muslim leadership have a strategic vision to improve the relationship with the US government that is constantly being viewed by many American Muslims as challenging or are the efforts of American Muslims merely reactive and stop-gap in nature?

4) Are the Islamic centers, mosques, masajids, etc. organized well enough to attract Muslims and non-Muslims alike for transparent dissemination of the message of Islam?

5) Who are the Imams and leaders who American Muslims have put on the podiums and how effective have they been in uniting their local communities?

6) And finally, what specifically is being done to get Muslims involved in the democratic process of America to be able for them to make their voices heard?


These questions must be debated and discussed strategically to be able to craft a vision for the American Muslims for this century.

Islamic Blog - A Muslim Blog covering Middle Eastern, Islamic and Muslim issues - Arab blog

The Muslim Holy book, their message, and their practices are anything but something that Christians can condone or agree with. Yes, they can be in the U.S., of course, They can worship freely just as do Christians (most of the time).

However, Christians are not in any way going to join in worship with them or pray with them, unless we are worshiping Almighty Creator God, rather than Alla, and unless we are praying to Almighty Creator God, rather than Alla, their god.

We can both have our own faiths in America, and our faiths cannot be joined in any spiritual way. We can do community service together. We can campaign for candidates together, and we can go to football games together. We can live in the same communities, buy gas at the same places, and shop at Wal-Mart. Our kids can play together, and go to school together. But in spiritual maters, we will not be able to come together. Our Holy Books to not agree with each other. They actually contradict each other
 
The Muslim Holy book, their message, and their practices are anything but something that Christians can condone or agree with.

only if Christians disagree with god himself..

The God of the Bible is not the same god as the one in the
Quran. Christians believe in the God of the Bible, so of course we disagree with the god of the Quran.
The god of the Quran and the god of the Bible are the same deity.
 
The god of the Quran and the god of the Bible are the same deity.

These are some of the basic differences better God and allah

Allah


Unknowable: Allah is so transcendent, so exalted, that no man can ever personally know Allah.


Yahweh
Knowable: Jesus Christ came into the world so we could know God personally (John 17:3).

Allah
Nonpersonal: Allah is not to be understood as a person. This would lower him to the level of man.

Yahweh
Personal: The God of the Bible is spoken of as a person with intellect, emotion, and a will.

Allah
Nonspirit: The idea that Allah is a person or a spirit is considered blasphemous and demeans the exalted One.

Yahweh
Spirit: That God is a spirit was taught by Jesus Christ himself in John 4:24.

Allah
Unitarian: The Koran specifically denies that Allah is a father, that Jesus is the Son of God and the Holy Spirit is God.

Yahweh
Trinitarian: The Bible reveals God as One in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. All share equally the divine nature.


Allah
Unlimited: The Koran describes Allah as able to do anything, anytime, anyplace, anywhere. He is not even limited by his own nature.

Yahweh
Limited: The biblical God is limited by His own nature. He cannot lie or contradict Himself.

Allah
Capricious: Allah in the Koran is totally capricious and untrustworthy. He is not bound by his nature or his word.

Yahweh
Trustworthy: Because God is always true to His nature, he is completely trustworthy and consistent.


Allah
No Love: The concept of Allah having feelings toward man is foreign to Islamic teaching. That would reduce Allah to a mere man and is blasphemous to a Muslim. ( not completely accurate there are fewer the 12 differing reference to Allah’s love all are equivocal)

Yahweh
Love: The biblical God's chief attribute is love as shown in such places as John 3:16. He has feelings for his creatures, especially man.
Allah
Passive in history: Allah does not personally enter into human history. He deals with the world through his word, prophets, and angels. He does not personally deal with man.

Yahweh
Active in history: In the incarnation, God himself enters history and acts to bring about man's salvation.


Allah
Works: There is no savior or intercessor or concept of grace in the Koran.

Yahweh
Grace: The God of the Bible provides a free salvation for man through a Savior who acts as an intercessor between God and Man (1 Timothy 2:5).
 
All the American Muslims will soon be leaving the country. There is a bill in Congess this very moment that requires every person living in America to eat a pound of bacon every week and two ham sandwiches. They say it's to increase the sale of pork so the farmers in Iowa can survive but in reality it's an attempt to drive the Muslims out of the country. If this doesn't work, they are going to require every American to have a pet pig.
 

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