The founding fathers, in their own words

[jwoodie]

Are you asking me these questions? Or, are you talking to the author of the article?

Where did your questions came from? I did not "start a debate with fallacies", wouldn't even begin to know that much about the beliefs of various members of the religious right (nor do I want to!)and your last points simply make no sense.

If you are asking me, know that I have no intention of spending that much time on your questions. I don't mean to insult you but this is simply not a venue where I would do that. Back when I first started posting here but that's one of those lessons most of us learn early on.

Did you make the post?

I didn't write the article. What I wrote was this:

Right or left, do you "hate" these quotes? Agree with them? Disagree?

That's it. That is all I wrote.

Ah, the innocent bomb thrower. Why is "hate" a proper subject for the CDZ?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I didn't write the article. What I wrote was this:

That's it. That is all I wrote.

I'm just not up for this tonight.

The quotes are not what you posted, you posted a claim that conservative Christians want to destroy the separation between church and state. Why did you post that if you did not intend to discuss it or defend it?

I never said anything of the kind and what I quoted is exactly what I wrote.

Then you just post random stuff, and then ask totally unrelated questions. Interesting.

 

[FA_Q2]

I didn't write the article. What I wrote was this:

That's it. That is all I wrote.

I'm just not up for this tonight.

The quotes are not what you posted, you posted a claim that conservative Christians want to destroy the separation between church and state. Why did you post that if you did not intend to discuss it or defend it?

I never said anything of the kind and what I quoted is exactly what I wrote.

You quoted that exact claim. What is the purpose of quoting that exact claim if you do not intend to discuss it? Honestly, because you are refusing to even acknowledge you own quote OP, this thread is looking more and more like a troll thread rather than in the spirit of the CDZ. Please, reiterate WHY you chose that paragraph to quote and state what you were trying to achieve in quoting it. Otherwise, there is no way for anyone here to understand what the point of the thread is.

As to the question of supporting the statements, I fully support the founders in the separation of church and state. The problem with that though is that I have a very strong suspicion that you do not even understand what that actually means.

You need to first accept that the separation is basically a one way street essentially separating the state from interfering in religious matters. Today, the left has warped that concept into the suppression of religious practice which is, consequently, exactly the opposite of the intention of the separation.

 

[FA_Q2]

35 Founding Father Quotes Conservative Christians Will Hate -

Right or left, do you "hate" these quotes? Agree with them? Disagree?

I have a few questions for you in order for me to understand exactly what it is you want to discuss here.

1. Why do you start debates with fallacies?
2. Which conservative Christians want smash the separation between church and state and make Christianity the state religion?
3. Which version of Christianity do they plan to make the state religion.
4. How is an individual asserting their right to be a Christian, or a Muslim, a violation of the church and state?
5. If Keith Ellison prays in his office does that tear a whole in your wall?

If you actually want to prove that your intent is to discuss the issues you raised feel free to answer my post. If, on the other hand, you prefer to prove I am right that you only post in this forum so that you do not have to actually defend yourself, feel free to pretend I am not trying to discuss this with you.

Are you asking me these questions? Or, are you talking to the author of the article?

Where did your questions came from? I did not "start a debate with fallacies", wouldn't even begin to know that much about the beliefs of various members of the religious right (nor do I want to!)and your last points simply make no sense.

If you are asking me, know that I have no intention of spending that much time on your questions. I don't mean to insult you but this is simply not a venue where I would do that. Back when I first started posting here but that's one of those lessons most of us learn early on.

Why are you in a debate forum if you are going to ignore questions posed to you?

Really, what is the point?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

 

[jwoodie]

Ever had an original thought?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Sure, but nothing can compete with the Constitution.

JMO.

 

[hortysir]

Congress shall make NO LAW regarding the establishment of RELIGION, or the free exercise thereof.

Two questions:
1, What part of "No Law" is so difficult for some to understand?
and
2, Why does this mention of RELIGION not count in regards to your pretty little Paintshop project?

 

[Asclepias]

Its a giant paradox. There is supposed to be separation of church and state but by virtue of the founding fathers being religious that primarily directed their thinking and affected the writing of the constitution.

 

[Intense]

Congress shall make NO LAW regarding the establishment of RELIGION, or the free exercise thereof.

Two questions:
1, What part of "No Law" is so difficult for some to understand?
and
2, Why does this mention of RELIGION not count in regards to your pretty little Paintshop project?

Do you realize that Madison's position on Religion, like Lock's, was rooted in Christ's teaching "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God, the things that are God's. Further, Matters of Conscience take precedence over obligation to any State, Society, or Government. Let's try to distinguish between Principle and Dogma. I have no expectation of you in how you believe. I do expect an honest scale.

 

[oldfart]

Did you make the post?

I didn't write the article. What I wrote was this:

Right or left, do you "hate" these quotes? Agree with them? Disagree?

That's it. That is all I wrote.

Ah, the innocent bomb thrower. Why is "hate" a proper subject for the CDZ?

If you were paying attention, you would have noticed that the phrase you find objectionable is in the link, not the text. Are we debating URL's now?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I am lost, what does this have to do with either your OP or the quotes you said are what you want to discuss?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I didn't write the article. What I wrote was this:



That's it. That is all I wrote.

Ah, the innocent bomb thrower. Why is "hate" a proper subject for the CDZ?

If you were paying attention, you would have noticed that the phrase you find objectionable is in the link, not the text. Are we debating URL's now?

No, we are trying to discuss the post that we actually read in this forum, but the OP says he didn't post it.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

LOL


I said nothing of the kind.

 

[jwoodie]

35 Founding Father Quotes Conservative Christians Will Hate -

The separation of church and state is one of the cornerstones of America’s foundation. Conservative Christian fundamentalists have sought to crush this cornerstone in the hopes of establishing Christianity as the state religion, an action that would threaten the rest of the foundation that makes up the Constitution. These conservatives contend that the Founding Fathers dreamed of making America a Christian state at the expense of those who practice other religions or none at all.

So here are 35 quotes from the Founding Fathers. Perhaps your first thoughts are the first four Presidents and maybe Benjamin Franklin, but there were many other Founding Fathers. Many were signers of the Constitution and The Declaration of Independence. They were lawyers, judges, soldiers, merchants, farmers, and some were even clergy. And the great majority of them signed the Constitution knowing that matters of government and matters of religion would be separate....

Right or left, do you "hate" these quotes? Agree with them? Disagree?

Read^^^^^

 

[Quantum Windbag]

35 Founding Father Quotes Conservative Christians Will Hate -

The separation of church and state is one of the cornerstones of America’s foundation. Conservative Christian fundamentalists have sought to crush this cornerstone in the hopes of establishing Christianity as the state religion, an action that would threaten the rest of the foundation that makes up the Constitution. These conservatives contend that the Founding Fathers dreamed of making America a Christian state at the expense of those who practice other religions or none at all.

So here are 35 quotes from the Founding Fathers. Perhaps your first thoughts are the first four Presidents and maybe Benjamin Franklin, but there were many other Founding Fathers. Many were signers of the Constitution and The Declaration of Independence. They were lawyers, judges, soldiers, merchants, farmers, and some were even clergy. And the great majority of them signed the Constitution knowing that matters of government and matters of religion would be separate....

Right or left, do you "hate" these quotes? Agree with them? Disagree?

Read^^^^^

\

I did. The problem is the OP insists he didn't post what you just quoted.

 

[FA_Q2]

Its a giant paradox. There is supposed to be separation of church and state but by virtue of the founding fathers being religious that primarily directed their thinking and affected the writing of the constitution.

There is no paradox if you actually understand what separation of church and state is. You see, the state is not free of the influence of principled people nor are those people not allowed to practice their faith in a public setting. As a matter of fact, the first specifically prohibits laws of that nature.

Instead, the state itself is simply barred from interfering in religious matters and faith. The paradox only exists when progressives try and reinterpret that to mean that faith is somehow illegal in whatever particular setting that they are railing against at the moment.

 

[FA_Q2]

So, rather than explain what you meant with your quote you continue on to post another quote (which is incidentally false) without connecting to your original hate filled hit piece. Then you go on to to claim that you never said you did not post the claim that you just finished claiming that you did not post….

Confusing enough. You are derailing your own thread.

Once again: PLEASE STATE CLEARLY WHAT YOUR POINT IS AND WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO ACHIEVE WITH THIS THREAD.

So far, I cannot squeeze a point out of this thread anywhere and I fear that it will be destined to the closed heap if we do not establish a point soon.

 

[Bfgrn]

Thomas Jefferson first mentioned the separation of church and state in his letter to the Danbury Baptists when they voiced concern that the government would interfere in religious worship. That was the wall, not to keep religion out of government, but to keep government out of religion. It was always expected that those who go into government service would be religious people.

Then how do you explain Article VI, paragraph 3 of the US Constitution?

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

 

[OnePercenter]

More BLOW-V-ATING sponsored by the one percent that have something to sell. Try to keep in mind that the folks that sponsor the one percent with something to sell are economic terrorists toward the middle class.