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Sure, lets just go ahead and gamble guys.
The fact is that if the debt ceiling isn't raised then all the obligations the federal government is supposed to pay won't be able to be paid for. Lots of people will lose jobs and the economy will suffer. Nobody knows how much it will suffer but it's certainly not a chance I'm willing to take nor should you. It's better to cut programs now and continue to cut more later on.
I'm tired of people saying that oh..."if I can't raise my debt ceiling then why should the government." Well they are the government and they don't always run surpluses. I'll agree they should reign in the spending a little bit but don't be a fool.
Not much of a gamble there Urk.
You seem to forget that Barry wants to be re-elected.
If he defaults on paying the bondholders, paying the military, SS or Medicare he most certainly won't get that 2nd term he's looking for.
He's well aware of what he's doing.
Sure, lets just go ahead and gamble guys.
The fact is that if the debt ceiling isn't raised then all the obligations the federal government is supposed to pay won't be able to be paid for. Lots of people will lose jobs and the economy will suffer. Nobody knows how much it will suffer but it's certainly not a chance I'm willing to take nor should you. It's better to cut programs now and continue to cut more later on.
I'm tired of people saying that oh..."if I can't raise my debt ceiling then why should the government." Well they are the government and they don't always run surpluses. I'll agree they should reign in the spending a little bit but don't be a fool.
Those poor fuckers on the Space Station will just have to fend for themselves. And Homeland Security will finally get a day off! Plus, it'll be a nice break for all those people getting nasty calls from the IRS.
But hey, some Republicans just aren't interested in paying the bills that their own House of Representatives approved. Color me surprised.
Nice try, but we don't all accept the notion that we must borrow into oblivion to provide free housing, free cell phones, studies of shrimp on treadmills, studies on gay men's penis size, massive layers of bureaucracy to regulate everything from what I eat to what light bulb I use, Obamacare, mortgage subsidies, food subsidies, farm subsidies, etc.
Note to self: Evry Goddamn thing in the federal budget is NOT a necessity.
The person to whom I responded told us what offices could be funded based on current revenues. I pointed to a few that would thus be unfunded....
and you responded with a completely unrelated rant. OK then.
Sure let's use scare tactics so government has yet another excuse NOT to get its financial shit together.
The Facts About the Debt Ceiling
Separating economic myths from economic truths
Myth 1: If a deal is not reached by August 2, the U.S. will default on its debt.
Fact 1: The Treasury Department can prioritize payments in order to avoid a default.
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Great, thanks for sharing. Oh, and if your wrong?
Not much of a gamble there Urk.
You seem to forget that Barry wants to be re-elected.
If he defaults on paying the bondholders, paying the military, SS or Medicare he most certainly won't get that 2nd term he's looking for.
He's well aware of what he's doing.
If the government doesn't meet all of its obligations then there will be consequences for us as a country. You're living in la la land if you believe it's a good thing if that happens and nobody has said they don't want to cut spending.
Obama wants to reign in spending. Somewhere in the area of 4 trillion over 10 years and more cuts will be made in the future I'm sure.
Why is it always the people who understand nothing about a subject are the ones who profess to give you the "facts"?
*shrug*
Shrug away Jilly... you're wrong on most every pointless point you attempt.
The U.S will NOT default unless the U.S. decides to default. There is enough money without raising the debt ceiling to make the needed debt payments. Go educate yourself.
You got that right.
Obama and his Treasury Secretary will decide what gets payed and what doesn't and 200 Billion will cover a load of bills.
And Aug 2nd isn't a date set in stone.
Most people do not know this and are buying into Barry's scare tactics.
If anybody thinks Barry and his T-Sec are gonna let the US default or not pay the military, SS or Medicare then they are the dumbest folks on the plantet. Or the most uninformed.
Urk. You actually believe Barry will cut spending?? He hasn't worried about spending since he's been in office. Now all of a sudden he's worried?? Oh wait. I forgot. Elections in 2012. My bad.
Hell. His own Dems kicked his budget to the curb. He has yet to put in a plan about all the cuts he will make. So far its all been speechs and talking points on TV. The Dems in the Senate have no plan either. The gang of 6 has one but how much support can they get for it in the Senate and House?? The House has one. How much support can it get in the Senate??
I would like to see exactly what OL'BO will cut. When he will cut it and how much he will cut. I would like to see this on paper. An honest to god plan letting the taxpayers of America know exactly what he's going to do.
Talk is real cheap. Its what you do that counts.
Sure let's use scare tactics so government has yet another excuse NOT to get its financial shit together.
You should be scared right now because I sure as hell am. Mainly because of the uncertainty. What I do know is that there will be consequences and they could be pretty serious.
And again, nobody wants to not cut spending.
The Facts About the Debt Ceiling
Separating economic myths from economic truths
Myth 1: If a deal is not reached by August 2, the U.S. will default on its debt.
Fact 1: The Treasury Department can prioritize payments in order to avoid a default.
.
Then I would say the dems have you right where they want you. Because that's what caving to this raising the debt ceiling amounts to. This is what happens when governments try to do ever more things under the guise of altruism and why, despite the best itentions politicians may have, that government was meant to be limited.
Something has to give. We can not continue to operate this way. Either we agree that everything government is doing is what it should be doing in which case at the very least we have an obligation to properly fund those things, which means taxes will have to go up and rather significantly. In a basic sense it's a choice between freedom and security and whichever one we deem it to be more important for government to defend is going to come at the expense of the other.
Not much of a gamble there Urk.
You seem to forget that Barry wants to be re-elected.
If he defaults on paying the bondholders, paying the military, SS or Medicare he most certainly won't get that 2nd term he's looking for.
He's well aware of what he's doing.
If the government doesn't meet all of its obligations then there will be consequences for us as a country. You're living in la la land if you believe it's a good thing if that happens and nobody has said they don't want to cut spending.
Obama wants to reign in spending. Somewhere in the area of 4 trillion over 10 years and more cuts will be made in the future I'm sure.
Urk. You actually believe Barry will cut spending?? He hasn't worried about spending since he's been in office. Now all of a sudden he's worried?? Oh wait. I forgot. Elections in 2012. My bad.
Hell. His own Dems kicked his budget to the curb. He has yet to put in a plan about all the cuts he will make. So far its all been speechs and talking points on TV. The Dems in the Senate have no plan either. The gang of 6 has one but how much support can they get for it in the Senate and House?? The House has one. How much support can it get in the Senate??
I would like to see exactly what OL'BO will cut. When he will cut it and how much he will cut. I would like to see this on paper. An honest to god plan letting the taxpayers of America know exactly what he's going to do.
Talk is real cheap. Its what you do that counts.
Well, then I would say we agree more then you know. It's just that I think we should cut spending over a period of time. Doing it all at once would create too much short term pain that could be avoided. Plus it would allow some people to have time to make the necessary changes to their lives.
I wouldn't have a problem with that........if I thought it would actually happen. I just don't think it will. The size of the hole we are in can not be understated.....U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time. Just the interest on the debt goes up by a thousand dollars almost per second. I believe we are too the point where even if we do cut over a period of years the amount cut per year is still going to have to be pretty big to make a real difference. We just had a battle like this in our state of MN and the bullshit compromise that was reached where the Repubs tried to show people they got their way ammounted to nothing more than some fancy accounting. That's what these budget compromises usually involve. Shift some money here, put this off till then, and try and make the American public believe they're serious about it.
I also think the idea of a balanced budget amendment is a huge waste of time. The government isn't supposed to run a surplus every year. Even the founders understood that.
No they shouldn't run a surplus. They should be breaking even in the ideal world. And any surplus left should go back to the tax payers. A balanced budget ammendment would finally be a line in the sand that says, this is what you can spend, now you have to make the tough decisions we elected you to make. I thought a good plan was a bill sponsored out of, i can remember where, that the federal budget may not exceed 20% of GDP. the rational behind that number is that historically, despite various tax rates, that is a little more than what government has collected in tax revenue each and every year. It also show how stupid the tax war is. It doesn't change the amount of money government has to work with. When you change someone's expenses, they modify their behavior.
Urk. You actually believe Barry will cut spending?? He hasn't worried about spending since he's been in office. Now all of a sudden he's worried?? Oh wait. I forgot. Elections in 2012. My bad.
Hell. His own Dems kicked his budget to the curb. He has yet to put in a plan about all the cuts he will make. So far its all been speechs and talking points on TV. The Dems in the Senate have no plan either. The gang of 6 has one but how much support can they get for it in the Senate and House?? The House has one. How much support can it get in the Senate??
I would like to see exactly what OL'BO will cut. When he will cut it and how much he will cut. I would like to see this on paper. An honest to god plan letting the taxpayers of America know exactly what he's going to do.
Talk is real cheap. Its what you do that counts.
Obama will cut spending because he knows that he has to.
And why is it Obama that needs to come up with the entire plan himself? That's why there's a legislative branch of government.
Sure, lets just go ahead and gamble guys.
The fact is that if the debt ceiling isn't raised then all the obligations the federal government is supposed to pay won't be able to be paid for. Lots of people will lose jobs and the economy will suffer. Nobody knows how much it will suffer but it's certainly not a chance I'm willing to take nor should you. It's better to cut programs now and continue to cut more later on.
I'm tired of people saying that oh..."if I can't raise my debt ceiling then why should the government." Well they are the government and they don't always run surpluses. I'll agree they should reign in the spending a little bit but don't be a fool.[/QUOTE]
Urkie:
Have you checked to find out how much is Constitutionally authorized?...........yes, I am serious about that.
.
Have you checked to find out how much is Constitutionally authorized?...........yes, I am serious about that.
Well his Dems haven't exactly fallen all over themselves to propose anything either.
Obamas budget is his plan. His Dems kicked the first one to the curb. Haven't seen another. Have you??
Seven Myths About the Looming Debt-Ceiling 'Disaster' - FoxNews.com
(1) Not increasing the debt ceiling means the U.S. government will default on its debt.
This is probably the biggest lie that almost all other claims arise from. Default occurs if the government stops paying interest on the money that it owes. Not increasing the debt ceiling only means that the government can't borrow more money and that spending is limited to the revenue the government brings in. And, with interest payments on the debt making up less than a ninth of revenue, there is no reason for any risk of insolvency.
Time after time, congress and the president have failed to agree on a debt ceiling increase and still there has been no default. Examples include: December 1973, March 1979, November 1983, December 1985, August 1987, November 1995, December 1995 to January 1996, and September 2007.
Indeed, this really shouldn't even be a point of debate. The 14th Amendment to the Constitution requires that the debt payments come first before any other spending.
(2) Until the debt ceiling is raised, uncertainty over the payment of U.S. debts will create chaos in financial markets.
Given that the Constitution mandates U.S. debts be paid before any other spending and that sufficient money will be available to cover our interest payments, the only uncertainty arises from Obama's actions. Will he try not to pay the interest? Even a delay of a day in paying this interest will create a default. Court action could eventually force Obama to follow the Constitution but a default would have already occurred. But there is a simple way to end this uncertainty: have the president declare now that he will indeed follow the Constitution and make those payments.
Failure to increase the debt ceiling clearly doesn't mean default. During one three week period at the end of 1996 and the beginning of 1996, some of the government shutdown when a similar battle over the debt ceiling occurred, but there was no default. President Clinton used the revenues that were coming in to pay the interest on the debt.
(3) Obama doesn't know if there is money to send off Social Security checks on August 3.
The president knows very well how much revenue will be available to send out checks on August 3. Indeed, enough money will be available to not only pay the interest, but to also cover all Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and children's health insurance, defense, federal law enforcement and immigration, all veterans benefits, Response to natural disasters. Terrifying elderly people who are dependent on their Social Security checks may make good politics, but it is unconscionable. Yet, these scare tactics aren't really very surprising. The Democrats behaved no differently when they ran television ads bizarrely depicting Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) as pushing an old lady in a wheel chair off a cliff.
(4) Mortgage interest rates will rise dramatically if the debt ceiling isn't increased.
Not true. Indeed, the opposite is more likely, for not raising the debt ceiling stops the government borrowing more money. Less borrowing by the government could lower mortgage rates as there would be more lending available for potential homeowners. The interest rate paid by the government might go down for a second reason. Just as banks charge individuals a lower interest rate for those who have less debt compared to their incomes, the same is true for governments.
(5) Time is Running Out on Debt Deal, and it must be done immediately. Despite Obamas insistence that a deal be completed by July 15 and Geithners claim that a deal had to be reached by July 22, as already noted, there have been many times over the last few decades where negotiations have extended past when the debt limit has been reached. The longest delay lasted three weeks. Besides claiming that there will be a default, no explanation has been offered for why the debate is any different this time.
Possibly all these claims of urgency are part of some grand strategy to scare people, but that strategy depends on voters not knowing what is necessary for a default to occur.
(6) If government spending is cut, there will be a depression.
Obama promised that a "temporary" increase in government spending would "stimulate" the economy, but he is now telling us that we can't cut that "temporary" increase -- that we are stuck with it.
If Obama's program -- including a 28 percent spending hike since 2008 and more than $4 trillion in deficits -- worked so well, why has our unemployment rate risen more than elsewhere? The European Union, Canada, South America, Japan, and Australia have all had smaller increases in unemployment compared to the U.S. after Obama's "stimulus." We have also had these shutdowns before and the numbers dont show any negative impact on unemployment or GDP. Figures for the longest shutdowns during the fourth quarter of 1995 and the first quarter of 1996 are available here.
(7) The value of the dollar will plummet.
Again, the supposed collapse occurs when we default. But there won't be any default. In addition, less government borrowing means lower future taxes, thus making the U.S. a more attractive place to invest. More foreign investment will actually cause the dollar to rise.
It is time for President Obama and his administration to stop scaring people. Cutting government spending back to its 2007 level won't be the end of the world. After all, during the 2008 presidential campaign, Obama himself repeatedly promised a net spending cut."
