The Existence of God Almighty

[Skylar]

You're running headlong into the scarriest part of religion, in my opinion: the certainty of it. You have folks that are absolutely certain that whatever they've chosen to believe must be objective truth. No matter how baseless, subjective, or unverifable.

They are certain. Certain that they are right. And certain that their perspective defines what is right and good.

Which means that anything that doesn't conform to their beliefs must be, by definition, evil and wrong. And there's very little that goodness and rightness isn't justified in doing to defeat evil.

There aren't a lot of ambivalent suicide bombers.

To me the world we live in seems complex enough to understand without muddying the process with nonsense.

It will be a sad day for those that want to believe in something more than what we have right in front of us when they discover that we have wasted any chance to survive by using up all of our energy resources.

I know, it's a long way into the future but, our sun will eventually run out of fuel and when it does we will perish if we haven't planned for that certainty. We are seemingly stuck on stupid with all this religious gobblety gook. Hopefully we will start acting like mature adults and abandon these childlike ways.

Religion is the epitome of narcissism. Every thing is about us. This "god" is for us. His "son" was for us.

The bible says we are all sinners. No, we are all just stupid to varying degrees. We all make bad choices from time to time. Rather than just confront our failings on our own we seem to need approval. We can correct our own behavior and usually the consequences of our mistakes. Sometimes we can't. Either way we do not need an outside source or organization to be involved.

I won't be around to see if we evolve into a truly intelligent species but it would be satisfying to see us make an effort to head in that direction.

I'm not arguing against religion in particular. I'm arguing against certainty. Believe in God all you like. Just maintain a manageable kernel of doubt. It doesn't have to be particularly big. Its shocking how little skepticism and doubt it takes to keep someone from doing the most idiotic shit in the name of their religion.

Certainty is the end of intellectual curiosity, the end of discovery, the end of questions. Its a terminal destination. And one from which you can do some truly awful things.

Which is worse? Certainty there is a supreme being or certainty that one does not exist?

Either are pretty limiting. Though I'd say you'd have an easier time convincing someone who is certain there is a god to do awful, awful shit if you can convince that person that you speak for god. Its a much more difficult task with someone convince God doesn't exist.

Faith, by its very nature, mandates that we set cold reason aside. That we lessen our reliance on what we can see and instead rely more fully on what we cannot. That we abdicate our own capacity for moral reasoning and accept that of God instead. So even if something seems wrong, God's commandment makes it righteous.

I could get many 'certain' Christians to agree that slaughtering babies in their cribs was righteous, given a commandment from God. I'd have a harder time convincing someone convinced God doesn't exist.

If I believe there is no god for what reason would I cling to your "kernel" that I am wrong.

Because maybe you are wrong.

Is that the argument where even if it doesnt make sense to someone you tell them to let god in because its better to be safe than sorry? I think a lot of theists fall into this category.

That's the argument to keep a small seed of doubt when considering religion or most anything else. If religion doesn't make sense to you, don't follow it. But remain open to the idea that you could be wrong.

Mine is an argument against certainty. Not religion, atheism or any other system of belief. I advocating remaining at least a little uncertain. As even that tiny amount will keep most folks from the folly of extremism.

 

[sealybobo]

To me the world we live in seems complex enough to understand without muddying the process with nonsense.

It will be a sad day for those that want to believe in something more than what we have right in front of us when they discover that we have wasted any chance to survive by using up all of our energy resources.

I know, it's a long way into the future but, our sun will eventually run out of fuel and when it does we will perish if we haven't planned for that certainty. We are seemingly stuck on stupid with all this religious gobblety gook. Hopefully we will start acting like mature adults and abandon these childlike ways.

Religion is the epitome of narcissism. Every thing is about us. This "god" is for us. His "son" was for us.

The bible says we are all sinners. No, we are all just stupid to varying degrees. We all make bad choices from time to time. Rather than just confront our failings on our own we seem to need approval. We can correct our own behavior and usually the consequences of our mistakes. Sometimes we can't. Either way we do not need an outside source or organization to be involved.

I won't be around to see if we evolve into a truly intelligent species but it would be satisfying to see us make an effort to head in that direction.

I'm not arguing against religion in particular. I'm arguing against certainty. Believe in God all you like. Just maintain a manageable kernel of doubt. It doesn't have to be particularly big. Its shocking how little skepticism and doubt it takes to keep someone from doing the most idiotic shit in the name of their religion.

Certainty is the end of intellectual curiosity, the end of discovery, the end of questions. Its a terminal destination. And one from which you can do some truly awful things.

Which is worse? Certainty there is a supreme being or certainty that one does not exist?

Either are pretty limiting. Though I'd say you'd have an easier time convincing someone who is certain there is a god to do awful, awful shit if you can convince that person that you speak for god. Its a much more difficult task with someone convince God doesn't exist.

Faith, by its very nature, mandates that we set cold reason aside. That we lessen our reliance on what we can see and instead rely more fully on what we cannot. That we abdicate our own capacity for moral reasoning and accept that of God instead. So even if something seems wrong, God's commandment makes it righteous.

I could get many 'certain' Christians to agree that slaughtering babies in their cribs was righteous, given a commandment from God. I'd have a harder time convincing someone convinced God doesn't exist.

If I believe there is no god for what reason would I cling to your "kernel" that I am wrong.

Because maybe you are wrong.

Is that the argument where even if it doesnt make sense to someone you tell them to let god in because its better to be safe than sorry? I think a lot of theists fall into this category.

That's the argument to keep a small seed of doubt when considering religion or most anything else. If religion doesn't make sense to you, don't follow it. But remain open to the idea that you could be wrong.

Mine is an argument against certainty. Not religion, atheism or any other system of belief. I advocating remaining at least a little uncertain. As even that tiny amount will keep most folks from the folly of extremism.

Most athiests will admit theres no way to be 100% certain a creator doesnt exist. Agnostic atheism is where I fall.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I'm not arguing against religion in particular. I'm arguing against certainty. Believe in God all you like. Just maintain a manageable kernel of doubt. It doesn't have to be particularly big. Its shocking how little skepticism and doubt it takes to keep someone from doing the most idiotic shit in the name of their religion.

Certainty is the end of intellectual curiosity, the end of discovery, the end of questions. Its a terminal destination. And one from which you can do some truly awful things.

Which is worse? Certainty there is a supreme being or certainty that one does not exist?

Either are pretty limiting. Though I'd say you'd have an easier time convincing someone who is certain there is a god to do awful, awful shit if you can convince that person that you speak for god. Its a much more difficult task with someone convince God doesn't exist.

Faith, by its very nature, mandates that we set cold reason aside. That we lessen our reliance on what we can see and instead rely more fully on what we cannot. That we abdicate our own capacity for moral reasoning and accept that of God instead. So even if something seems wrong, God's commandment makes it righteous.

I could get many 'certain' Christians to agree that slaughtering babies in their cribs was righteous, given a commandment from God. I'd have a harder time convincing someone convinced God doesn't exist.

If I believe there is no god for what reason would I cling to your "kernel" that I am wrong.

Because maybe you are wrong.

Is that the argument where even if it doesnt make sense to someone you tell them to let god in because its better to be safe than sorry? I think a lot of theists fall into this category.

That's the argument to keep a small seed of doubt when considering religion or most anything else. If religion doesn't make sense to you, don't follow it. But remain open to the idea that you could be wrong.

Mine is an argument against certainty. Not religion, atheism or any other system of belief. I advocating remaining at least a little uncertain. As even that tiny amount will keep most folks from the folly of extremism.

Most athiests will admit theres no way to be 100% certain a creator doesnt exist. Agnostic atheism is where I fall.

As an atheist I am of the opinion that the universe is probably populated with sentient beings who possess "godlike powers" but that doesn't nullify the omnipotent creator paradox.

 

[sealybobo]

Which is worse? Certainty there is a supreme being or certainty that one does not exist?

Either are pretty limiting. Though I'd say you'd have an easier time convincing someone who is certain there is a god to do awful, awful shit if you can convince that person that you speak for god. Its a much more difficult task with someone convince God doesn't exist.

Faith, by its very nature, mandates that we set cold reason aside. That we lessen our reliance on what we can see and instead rely more fully on what we cannot. That we abdicate our own capacity for moral reasoning and accept that of God instead. So even if something seems wrong, God's commandment makes it righteous.

I could get many 'certain' Christians to agree that slaughtering babies in their cribs was righteous, given a commandment from God. I'd have a harder time convincing someone convinced God doesn't exist.

If I believe there is no god for what reason would I cling to your "kernel" that I am wrong.

Because maybe you are wrong.

Is that the argument where even if it doesnt make sense to someone you tell them to let god in because its better to be safe than sorry? I think a lot of theists fall into this category.

That's the argument to keep a small seed of doubt when considering religion or most anything else. If religion doesn't make sense to you, don't follow it. But remain open to the idea that you could be wrong.

Mine is an argument against certainty. Not religion, atheism or any other system of belief. I advocating remaining at least a little uncertain. As even that tiny amount will keep most folks from the folly of extremism.

Most athiests will admit theres no way to be 100% certain a creator doesnt exist. Agnostic atheism is where I fall.

As an atheist I am of the opinion that the universe is probably populated with sentient beings who possess "godlike powers" but that doesn't nullify the omnipotent creator paradox.

Like Thor who lives in a different universe? I think there is plenty of life out there but what god like powers do you think they have? I think if they can fly its because their gravity is weak. If they can be invisible or read each others minds that doesnt make them gods. In fact they believe god made them in his image. Whales believe they are gods chosen ones too. We are evil to a whale.

 

[Skylar]

If there's evil in your heart, it doesn't really matter if you're religious, atheist or something in between. You're going to use what you believe to justify some evil shit. Mother Teresa and Grand Inquisitor Torquemada used the same bible. So either can be perverted. A hateful atheist and a hateful religious person will both produce hateful results.

My concern with religion is that it can take GOOD men and convince them of some truly awful shit. People that don't have hate in their heart. As religion requires in many cases that an individual abdicate their own capacity for moral reasoning in favor of their religion. Even if something feels wrong to them personally, they tend to accept it as righteous and good because they are told to.

Athiests are discouraged from abdicating their own moral reasoning. So when something feels wrong to them, they have a much easier time stopping than a religious person who feels the same way but is taught by religion that what feels wrong is actually right.

Athiests generally need to be convinced one at a time. And up close and personal. The faithful are taught to follow. So can often be convinced in mass. Making the difference in the harm that each can inflict analoguous to a knife and a gun. Both can kill. But not with the same efficiency or at the same distance.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Either are pretty limiting. Though I'd say you'd have an easier time convincing someone who is certain there is a god to do awful, awful shit if you can convince that person that you speak for god. Its a much more difficult task with someone convince God doesn't exist.

Faith, by its very nature, mandates that we set cold reason aside. That we lessen our reliance on what we can see and instead rely more fully on what we cannot. That we abdicate our own capacity for moral reasoning and accept that of God instead. So even if something seems wrong, God's commandment makes it righteous.

I could get many 'certain' Christians to agree that slaughtering babies in their cribs was righteous, given a commandment from God. I'd have a harder time convincing someone convinced God doesn't exist.

Because maybe you are wrong.

Is that the argument where even if it doesnt make sense to someone you tell them to let god in because its better to be safe than sorry? I think a lot of theists fall into this category.

That's the argument to keep a small seed of doubt when considering religion or most anything else. If religion doesn't make sense to you, don't follow it. But remain open to the idea that you could be wrong.

Mine is an argument against certainty. Not religion, atheism or any other system of belief. I advocating remaining at least a little uncertain. As even that tiny amount will keep most folks from the folly of extremism.

Most athiests will admit theres no way to be 100% certain a creator doesnt exist. Agnostic atheism is where I fall.

As an atheist I am of the opinion that the universe is probably populated with sentient beings who possess "godlike powers" but that doesn't nullify the omnipotent creator paradox.

Like Thor who lives in a different universe? I think there is plenty of life out there but what god like powers do you think they have? I think if they can fly its because their gravity is weak. If they can be invisible or read each others minds that doesnt make them gods. In fact they believe god made them in his image. Whales believe they are gods chosen ones too. We are evil to a whale.

Once upon a time it was only the gods who could what you were doing all the time and strike you down with a bolt from the sky. Nowadays we have those godlike powers ourselves via the use of armed drones.

The ability to travel through space and time would be a godlike power. The ability to change the orbits of planets would be another.

If we encountered a being with those powers would they not appear to be godlike to us?

 

[Peter-S]

I am speaking from the Islamic perspective.

The proof that God exists is His act. Like footprints indicate a walker, His act indicates His existence. The rain that comes from the sky, the constellations of the Zodiac and the vast pathways above you in the sky point to the existence of a unique Almighty God.

Actually the constellations show that god doesn't exist. The earth was supposedly created as a platform where man could be tested and deemed worthy of heaven or hell. All that is needed for that is the earth and the sun--everything else is just useless decorations in the sky. If the sky were blank and only the sun stared back at us then we could sit here and say with certainty that god exists. It's because there is so much pointless decoration though that proves we are here from natural and not supernatural design...

 

[Dajjal]

I am speaking from the Islamic perspective.

The proof that God exists is His act. Like footprints indicate a walker, His act indicates His existence. The rain that comes from the sky, the constellations of the Zodiac and the vast pathways above you in the sky point to the existence of a unique Almighty God.

Actually the constellations show that god doesn't exist. The earth was supposedly created as a platform where man could be tested and deemed worthy of heaven or hell. All that is needed for that is the earth and the sun--everything else is just useless decorations in the sky. If the sky were blank and only the sun stared back at us then we could sit here and say with certainty that god exists. It's because there is so much pointless decoration though that proves we are here from natural and not supernatural design...

The spirit guides I have listened to in trance lectures by spirituals mediums say that there are many inhabited planets. We incarnate on the planet most suited to our stage of spiritual evolution. It makes more sense that we can incarnate on many different worlds, as this allows for a much larger number of souls, and they can be at different levels of civilisation. Also there would be problems finding enough souls to incarnate on a planet with a population explosion like this one.

Besides it would be careless of God to keep all his eggs in one basket, as the earth might be destroyed thereby ending the cycle of incarnations prematurely.

 

[Skylar]

I am speaking from the Islamic perspective.

The proof that God exists is His act. Like footprints indicate a walker, His act indicates His existence. The rain that comes from the sky, the constellations of the Zodiac and the vast pathways above you in the sky point to the existence of a unique Almighty God.

Actually the constellations show that god doesn't exist. The earth was supposedly created as a platform where man could be tested and deemed worthy of heaven or hell. All that is needed for that is the earth and the sun--everything else is just useless decorations in the sky. If the sky were blank and only the sun stared back at us then we could sit here and say with certainty that god exists. It's because there is so much pointless decoration though that proves we are here from natural and not supernatural design...

The spirit guides I have listened to in trance lectures by spirituals mediums say that there are many inhabited planets. We incarnate on the planet most suited to our stage of spiritual evolution. It makes more sense that we can incarnate on many different worlds, as this allows for a much larger number of souls, and they can be at different levels of civilisation. Also there would be problems finding enough souls to incarnate on a planet with a population explosion like this one.

Besides it would be careless of God to keep all his eggs in one basket, as the earth might be destroyed thereby ending the cycle of incarnations prematurely.

As part of a thought experiment I started fiddling with non-linear time. If only time in flesh were linear and time after death were not, then it would be possible to be reinacarnated before or even during one's own lifetime. Taken a step further, if this were true, how many souls would it take to populate the entire world....or in the case of your spirit guides, all worlds.

Just one.

I imagined a conversation between the first incarnation and the last over lunch discussing what they had learned. I thought it would make a decent story.

 

[sealybobo]

Is that the argument where even if it doesnt make sense to someone you tell them to let god in because its better to be safe than sorry? I think a lot of theists fall into this category.

That's the argument to keep a small seed of doubt when considering religion or most anything else. If religion doesn't make sense to you, don't follow it. But remain open to the idea that you could be wrong.

Mine is an argument against certainty. Not religion, atheism or any other system of belief. I advocating remaining at least a little uncertain. As even that tiny amount will keep most folks from the folly of extremism.

Most athiests will admit theres no way to be 100% certain a creator doesnt exist. Agnostic atheism is where I fall.

As an atheist I am of the opinion that the universe is probably populated with sentient beings who possess "godlike powers" but that doesn't nullify the omnipotent creator paradox.

Like Thor who lives in a different universe? I think there is plenty of life out there but what god like powers do you think they have? I think if they can fly its because their gravity is weak. If they can be invisible or read each others minds that doesnt make them gods. In fact they believe god made them in his image. Whales believe they are gods chosen ones too. We are evil to a whale.

Once upon a time it was only the gods who could what you were doing all the time and strike you down with a bolt from the sky. Nowadays we have those godlike powers ourselves via the use of armed drones.

The ability to travel through space and time would be a godlike power. The ability to change the orbits of planets would be another.

If we encountered a being with those powers would they not appear to be godlike to us?

They would appear to be to us but we'd be wrong. They arent gods. Once you got use to them you'd realize it.

Maybe dogs think we are gods. Nope because a pit bull will rip your face off. And tigers dont think we are gods nor do polar bears. Even the ones in zoos are just waiting for their chance to rip your face off. Even though you you have powers and abilities beyond theirs.