The Evolution of Modes Of Competition

[rtwngAvngr]

could someone else do the body of this post? I did the title. I'm tired.

 

[Annie]

could someone else do the body of this post? I did the title. I'm tired.

LOL

 

[5stringJeff]

If this is going to turn into another thread on socialism, then post it in the Politics forum.

 

[William Joyce]

OK.

First, humans competed physically for territory and resources. Roving bands of pre-historic people joined forces in small numbers, and the bands with the strongest guys got the most hunting territory.

Then, humans competed mentally for territory and resources. As agriculture and culture developed, those humans who best developed things to prolong human life prospered.

Then, humans competed in the realm of ideas. The humans who could convince others of the superiority of their ways did best, because everyone went along with them.

 

[ajwps]

OK.

First, humans competed physically for territory and resources. Roving bands of pre-historic people joined forces in small numbers, and the bands with the strongest guys got the most hunting territory.

Then, humans competed mentally for territory and resources. As agriculture and culture developed, those humans who best developed things to prolong human life prospered.

Then, humans competed in the realm of ideas. The humans who could convince others of the superiority of their ways did best, because everyone went along with them.

Is that why the Muslim Prime Minister Datuk Seri Dr Mahathir Mohamad of Malaysia said "the Jews run the world by proxy?"

Are you saying that less than .01% of the world population is best in the realm of ideas and that they have convinced all others of the superiority of their ways? Or is that why you HATE the Jewish people?

 

[Hobbit]

Ok, here goes.

The most basic, carnal form of competition is mortal combat, a one on one fight to the death. It has been around as long as there have been humans beings, since Cain killed Abel, if you believe the Bible. Humans have competed for millenia over seemingly insignificant parcels of land for their resources or for women. Before long, humans joined into groups to increase their strength, and communities formed. Competition became more complex, with tribe versus tribe combat instead of individuals. After the development of agriculture, tribes fought for the best land or the secrets to getting food out of seemingly fallow ground. Individuals compteted over who could own the most land or the best land, as better land led to more wealth, allowing more luxuries and better women. As society evolved, it became the smart that accumulated the wealth, while the strong could no longer fight in a civilized society. Not legally, anyway. Thus, people began competing to see who was the smartest, while the strong continue to do battle in civilized sports. Competition has always been over the accumulation of wealth and the choicest "mates." The evolution of competition follows which qualities allow one to obtain these things.

 

[ajwps]

Ok, here goes. The most basic, carnal form of competition is mortal combat, a one on one fight to the death. It has been around as long as there have been humans beings, since Cain killed Abel, if you believe the Bible. Humans have competed for millenia over seemingly insignificant parcels of land for their resources or for women. Before long, humans joined into groups to increase their strength, and communities formed. Competition became more complex, with tribe versus tribe combat instead of individuals. After the development of agriculture, tribes fought for the best land or the secrets to getting food out of seemingly fallow ground. Individuals compteted over who could own the most land or the best land, as better land led to more wealth, allowing more luxuries and better women. As society evolved, it became the smart that accumulated the wealth, while the strong could no longer fight in a civilized society. Not legally, anyway. Thus, people began competing to see who was the smartest, while the strong continue to do battle in civilized sports. Competition has always been over the accumulation of wealth and the choicest "mates." The evolution of competition follows which qualities allow one to obtain these things.

Hobbit I must respectfully disagree with your assessment of competition (wars) being waged for wealth or choice mates.

Actually history tells us that most wars are waged not for wealth or mates but singly for POWER.

Take for example Adolph Hitler, Emperor Hirohito or Sadaam Heusein and the wars waged against their neighbors.

All of them already had more wealth than they possibily could want for their every whim was satisfied instantly. They had no need for wealth. They had all the choicest women or in Hitler's case all the boys he and they wanted or desired instantly.

Why would despots wage war against other nations when they already had both immense wealth and all the choicest women? There is some mental defect in mankind to seek power over others once money, women and territory are no longer a problem.

Why did J. Pierpont Morgan, the world's richest man want more, more, more, more to the detrement of the 'ordinary people?'

It is the desire to have power and control over others. This can be seen in our own elected representative government. Why does the government tax the populace when all a government needs is the income from import, export and tarrif duties.

It is power over the life and actions of men which prevents the US Contitutional framers intention for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

IT IS POWER OVER OTHERS.....

 

[Merlin1047]

OK.

First, humans competed physically for territory and resources. Roving bands of pre-historic people joined forces in small numbers, and the bands with the strongest guys got the most hunting territory.

Then, humans competed mentally for territory and resources. As agriculture and culture developed, those humans who best developed things to prolong human life prospered.

Then, humans competed in the realm of ideas. The humans who could convince others of the superiority of their ways did best, because everyone went along with them.

You forgot to complete that last statement. "Those who failed to go along got their asses kicked". :bat:

:teeth:

 

[dilloduck]

Hobbit I must respectfully disagree with your assessment of competition (wars) being waged for wealth or choice mates.

Actually history tells us that most wars are waged not for wealth or mates but singly for POWER.

Take for example Adolph Hitler, Emperor Hirohito or Sadaam Heusein and the wars waged against their neighbors.

All of them already had more wealth than they possibily could want for their every whim was satisfied instantly. They had no need for wealth. They had all the choicest women or in Hitler's case all the boys he and they wanted or desired instantly.

Why would despots wage war against other nations when they already had both immense wealth and all the choicest women? There is some mental defect in mankind to seek power over others once money, women and territory are no longer a problem.

Why did J. Pierpont Morgan, the world's richest man want more, more, more, more to the detrement of the 'ordinary people?'

It is the desire to have power and control over others. This can be seen in our own elected representative government. Why does the government tax the populace when all a government needs is the income from import, export and tarrif duties.

It is power over the life and actions of men which prevents the US Contitutional framers intention for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

IT IS POWER OVER OTHERS.....

The winner of the competition has more power by default. Power is seen by people as the way achieve pleasure and avoid pain. People compete by using the method that proves to be most effective against others. When the cultures in which these people live "advances" so do the methods of competition. Some have decided that to have power while they are living is not as important as having power to exist in an after-life. These people tend to compete with others seeking power in the after-life. (My god is better than yours) IMHO competition is the result of one persons' or a societies'
method of seeking pleasure or avoiding pain comes in direct conflict with an opposing method.
Simple as I can put my thoughts in a forum such as this---power can be debated (and has been) for eons.

 

[ajwps]

The winner of the competition has more power by default. Power is seen by people as the way achieve pleasure and avoid pain. People compete by using the method that proves to be most effective against others. When the cultures in which these people live "advances" so do the methods of competition. Some have decided that to have power while they are living is not as important as having power to exist in an after-life. These people tend to compete with others seeking power in the after-life. (My god is better than yours) IMHO competition is the result of one persons' or a societies'
method of seeking pleasure or avoiding pain comes in direct conflict with an opposing method.
Simple as I can put my thoughts in a forum such as this---power can be debated (and has been) for eons.

I don't think people want power in any after-life but just the desire to exist in some ethereal hereafter. Most people who believe in such a thing want to be under the control of the Power that made them and not to have power over others.

Avoiding pain and pleasure does not seem to define POWER. Power is much more like dominance over the recessive fellow beings.

Authority and power are two different things: power is the force by means of which you can oblige others to obey you. Authority is the right to direct and command, to be listened to or obeyed by others. Authority requests power. Power without authority is tyranny.

ATTRIBUTION: Jacques Maritain (1882–1973)

 

[dilloduck]

I don't think people want power in any after-life but just the desire to exist in some ethereal hereafter. Most people who believe in such a thing want to be under the control of the Power that made them and not to have power over others.

Avoiding pain and pleasure does not seem to define POWER. Power is much more like dominance over the recessive fellow beings.

I was referring to seeking pleasure in the afterlife by using ones power over temptation in this life. I would have difficulty belivieving in a supreme being that desired to have me under its control.

Power is neither postive or negative---it is merely a method to achieve pleasure or avoid pain.
BTW--Thread topic is regarding competition.

 

[ajwps]

I was referring to seeking pleasure in the afterlife by using ones power over temptation in this life. I would have difficulty belivieving in a supreme being that desired to have me under its control.

Power is neither postive or negative---it is merely a method to achieve pleasure or avoid pain.
BTW--Thread topic is regarding competition.

Then to keep to the thread topic, then there must be some kind of competition for being in that great saved party of believers. Is that competitive enough for you?

What type of control from a Supreme Being are you talking about? Temptations in this life? More like individual choices made with that G-d like image gift of FREE WILL which is unlike any other creature possesses on this earth.

Responsibility for one's actions is unnecessary if one does not believe in some sort of universal justice. If one decides that there is no accountablity, then hell, why just not murder your neighbor and take his possessions (war)? Hey why stop at that? I like my neighbors wife and daughter so why not just go over and rape them and kill the male?

Afterall, there is no real man made justice that can catch me and put me in prison. Do you have any idea of how many people on this earth do not have a police force that exists are doesn't take bribes to look the other way? How many children are picked up off the streets in Namimbea and sold for slaves.

There is no ultimate justice. Not to worry, for everybody simply dies and becomes null and void. Nothing to worry about here, let's just go and do what makes us feel good.

What rules or commandments can be enforced as there is ultimately nothing or no Supreme Being to answer to.

Don't let me hold you back.

 

[Hobbit]

Hobbit I must respectfully disagree with your assessment of competition (wars) being waged for wealth or choice mates.

Actually history tells us that most wars are waged not for wealth or mates but singly for POWER.

Take for example Adolph Hitler, Emperor Hirohito or Sadaam Heusein and the wars waged against their neighbors.

All of them already had more wealth than they possibily could want for their every whim was satisfied instantly. They had no need for wealth. They had all the choicest women or in Hitler's case all the boys he and they wanted or desired instantly.

Why would despots wage war against other nations when they already had both immense wealth and all the choicest women? There is some mental defect in mankind to seek power over others once money, women and territory are no longer a problem.

Why did J. Pierpont Morgan, the world's richest man want more, more, more, more to the detrement of the 'ordinary people?'

It is the desire to have power and control over others. This can be seen in our own elected representative government. Why does the government tax the populace when all a government needs is the income from import, export and tarrif duties.

It is power over the life and actions of men which prevents the US Contitutional framers intention for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

IT IS POWER OVER OTHERS.....

Wealth can take many forms, and power can be considered a form of wealth. Hitler conquored Europe to bring economic power (wealth) to Germany. Dictators conquor their territories to exploit wealth from the people. Even the concept of competition for rewards in the afterlife is an accumulation of wealth, since you are "building up treasures in heaven."

 

[ajwps]

Wealth can take many forms, and power can be considered a form of wealth. Hitler conquored Europe to bring economic power (wealth) to Germany. Dictators conquor their territories to exploit wealth from the people. Even the concept of competition for rewards in the afterlife is an accumulation of wealth, since you are "building up treasures in heaven."

Okay lets take your premise at face value. You say, "Power can be considered a form of wealth." Then a Howard Hughes or a Bill Gates or a Sadaam Husein, all of whom are considered immensly wealthy must certainly have POWER with its ability to force people to bow down to them, feed living girls to dogs or change the course of nations.

Does this make any rational equivalence to you? Wealth is only one stepping stone to POWER over people. Wealth cannot automatically mean POWER over other human beings.

Where in the world do you get the idea that good ole Uncle Adolph Hitler brought economic power to Germany over the lives of so many people in so many countries. Hitler brought death and destruction to millions upon millions of innocent people just trying to live their lives and thereby bring Germans a better lifestyle?

Do you think that there is anther way to bring economic independence to a people or country instead of murdering everybody and stealing everything you can get your hands on? Do you any concept of the stupidity of this concept?

So you think that you accumulate literal wealth or a treasure in the after-life? What kind of banking institution do you think exists where you can store your lucker in this afterlife?

Do you think that Jesus mansions in the sky are not enough for your material needs like food, clothing, deodorant and that extra pocket change to buy junk foods?

How much treasuer do you need after you are dead?

What am I wasting my time for here?

 

[Hobbit]

Okay lets take your premise at face value. You say, "Power can be considered a form of wealth." Then a Howard Hughes or a Bill Gates or a Sadaam Husein, all of whom are considered immensly wealthy must certainly have POWER with its ability to force people to bow down to them, feed living girls to dogs or change the course of nations.

Does this make any rational equivalence to you? Wealth is only one stepping stone to POWER over people. Wealth cannot automatically mean POWER over other human beings.

Where in the world do you get the idea that good ole Uncle Adolph Hitler brought economic power to Germany over the lives of so many people in so many countries. Hitler brought death and destruction to millions upon millions of innocent people just trying to live their lives and thereby bring Germans a better lifestyle?

I never said any of the things you're asserting. Wealth is not necessarily power, but power is wealth, and it is a means of aquiring wealth. War and killing is one way to obtain power, and yes, Hitler launched his invasions to gain economic power, and thus, the support of the German people. Germany has a worse recession than anything we've dreamed of in the United States. The inflation rate was in the trillions of percent. Like it or not, war makes money by selling machines and capturing resources. That same war brought us out of the Great Depression.

Do you think that there is another way to bring economic independence to a people or country instead of murdering everybody and stealing everything you can get your hands on? Do you any concept of the stupidity of this concept?

Of course there's another way. I didn't say there wasn't. However, this was a short thesis about the evolution of competition, not a thesis on how to bring economic prosperity to an entire nation. That's another thread entirely.

So you think that you accumulate literal wealth or a treasure in the after-life? What kind of banking institution do you think exists where you can store your lucker in this afterlife?

I never said it was tangible, I simply said that people compete over this alleged treasure, whether it exists or not. Once again, the topic is about competition, not theology.

Do you think that Jesus mansions in the sky are not enough for your material needs like food, clothing, deodorant and that extra pocket change to buy junk foods?

I'm not even sure what you mean by this.

How much treasuer do you need after you are dead?

Depends on what kind of afterlife you believe in. Many ancient cultures buried their dead with the deceased's posessions, so he'd have them in the afterlife. However, for purposes of this discussion, the topic is moot, since people compete over these treasures, real or not.

What am I wasting my time for here?

I don't know. I'm not the one refuting points that were never made.

 

[ajwps]

I never said any of the things you're asserting. Wealth is not necessarily power, but power is wealth, and it is a means of aquiring wealth. War and killing is one way to obtain power, and yes, Hitler launched his invasions to gain economic power, and thus, the support of the German people. Germany has a worse recession than anything we've dreamed of in the United States. The inflation rate was in the trillions of percent. Like it or not, war makes money by selling machines and capturing resources. That same war brought us out of the Great Depression.

Do you not know anything about history. Not only Germany but the rest of the world was in a great depression because of the US 1921 depression. When the US hiccups the world nations have pneumonia. Germany also suffered from a loss of face from losing WW1. The ready non-violent Jewish citizen scapegoats were used as usual as the souce of their problems.

You seem to think that war is the only thing that a country can do to come out of depressions or power plays to capture the world. How about creating democracies where people can work for themselves instead of the government? Where free trade and the ability to create individual wealth creates a vibrant economy. Low taxation is also a good concept so that people can create the comsumption of goods and services instead of the government running everyone's life. Germany could have followed this model instead of following the superman Adolph.

Of course there's another way. I didn't say there wasn't. However, this was a short thesis about the evolution of competition, not a thesis on how to bring economic prosperity to an entire nation. That's another thread entirely.

I just gave you a way that Germany could have come out of their depression but you find it difficult if not impossible to discuss here and feel it should be done later on another thread in a different context and possibly not at all.

I never said it was tangible, I simply said that people compete over this alleged treasure, whether it exists or not. Once again, the topic is about competition, not theology.

Anybody notice that Hobbit just said that 'people compete over alleged treasures' and then went on to change the subject saying that the subject of the thread was competition?

You brought up accumulating treasures in the hereafter. I didn't....

You didn't say a lot of things but left the impression that those heavenly treasures were not only tangible but COMPETITION was necessary to get hold of these unreal (non-tangible) riches in your mansions in the sky with Jesus.

I'm not even sure what you mean by this.

Your not sure what I mean? You talked about competition to accumulate wealth in the sweet-bye-and-bye. I just inquired as to the type of assests that you now say are not real or tangible. I'm not sure of what you mean by intangible competition for treasures in your body form in the sky after your death. What do you mean?

Depends on what kind of afterlife you believe in. Many ancient cultures buried their dead with the deceased's posessions, so he'd have them in the afterlife. However, for purposes of this discussion, the topic is moot, since people compete over these treasures, real or not.

Nice try... But obviously you don't know how to answer the question I posed concering your statement. Buring treasures with the dead is highly suspicious of collecting treasures in the sky. If the topic is moot, then why do you say PEOPLE compete for these intangible treasures here on earth or after you go to meet your maker.

I don't know. I'm not the one refuting points that were never made.

You are a contradiction in terms.

 

[Hobbit]

Do you not know anything about history. Not only Germany but the rest of the world was in a great depression because of the US 1921 depression. When the US hiccups the world nations have pneumonia. Germany also suffered from a loss of face from losing WW1. The ready non-violent Jewish citizen scapegoats were used as usual as the souce of their problems.

You seem to think that war is the only thing that a country can do to come out of depressions or power plays to capture the world. How about creating democracie where people can work for themselves instead of the government?



I just gave you a way that Germany could have come out of their depression but you find it difficult if not impossible to discuss here and feel it should be done later on another thread in a different context and possibly not at all.



Anybody notice that Hobbit just said that 'people compete over alleged treasures' and then went on to change the subject saying that the subject of the thread was competition?

You brought up accumulating treasures in the hereafter. I didn't....

You didn't say a lot of things but left the impression that those heavenly treasures were not only tangible but COMPETITION was necessary to get hold of these unreal (non-tangible) riches in your mansions in the sky with Jesus.



Your not sure what I mean? You talked about competition to accumulate wealth the sweet-bye-and-bye. I just inquired as to the type of assests that you now say are not real or tangible. I'm not sure of what you mean by intangible competition for treasures in your body form in the sky after your death. What do you mean?



Nice try... But obviously you don't know how to answer the question I posed concering your statement. Buring treasures with the dead is highly suspicious of collecting treasures in the sky. If the topic is moot, then why do you say PEOPLE compete for these intangible treasures here on earth or after you go to meet your maker.



You are a contradiction in terms.

For the last freakin time, the topic of this thread was about the evolution of competition, not the economic impacts of the second world war or the accumulation of alleged wealth in the afterlife. The only reason war came up in the first place is because it is the most primal state of competition between nations. I KNOW Germany could have come out of its depression without a war. I AM FULLY FREAKING AWARE OF MANY WAYS TO BOLSTER ECONOMIC STRENGTH WITHOUT ARMED CONFLICT, BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT OF THIS THREAD! The point of this thread is to discuss the...now listen really closely hear...THE EVOLUTION OF COMPETITION, period, that's it. If you want to make a thread about the different methods of economic recovery, that's your choice, but that's not what this thread is about, so that's not what I'm discussing. If you would care to stop your ranting and say...in plain terms...without calling me names...exactly what you're asking me, I'm sure I can come up with a reasonable answer. All I can figure out right now is.

You're asking why I think war was the only way Germany could've recovered its economy. Well, I never said that. I simply said that was why they went to war. If this is really what you're saying, it's kind of like asking why I think McDonald's is the only place on the planet with edible food simply because I said I ate lunch there. I never said war was Germany's only solution, only that it was the solution they chose.

The second seems to be that you're asking why people compete of intangible treasures in the afterlife. Well, I can't honestly say. Why don't you ask them?

 

[ajwps]

For the last freakin time, the topic of this thread was about the evolution of competition, not the economic impacts of the second world war or the accumulation of alleged wealth in the afterlife. The only reason war came up in the first place is because it is the most primal state of competition between nations. I KNOW Germany could have come out of its depression without a war. I AM FULLY FREAKING AWARE OF MANY WAYS TO BOLSTER ECONOMIC STRENGTH WITHOUT ARMED CONFLICT, BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT OF THIS THREAD! The point of this thread is to discuss the...now listen really closely hear...THE EVOLUTION OF COMPETITION, period, that's it. If you want to make a thread about the different methods of economic recovery, that's your choice, but that's not what this thread is about, so that's not what I'm discussing. If you would care to stop your ranting and say...in plain terms...without calling me names...exactly what you're asking me, I'm sure I can come up with a reasonable answer. All I can figure out right now is. You're asking why I think war was the only way Germany could've recovered its economy. Well, I never said that. I simply said that was why they went to war. If this is really what you're saying, it's kind of like asking why I think McDonald's is the only place on the planet with edible food simply because I said I ate lunch there. I never said war was Germany's only solution, only that it was the solution they chose.
The second seems to be that you're asking why people compete of intangible treasures in the afterlife. Well, I can't honestly say. Why don't you ask them?

Your the one who fashioned the questions and responded to the answers.

Go to what you consider an appropriate thread if you wish to continue.