The evolution of God and the rapture

[yiostheoy]

If my personal belief is true, then it does answer all your questions. If my personal belief is not true, I have yet to see refuting evidence.

Equally, I'd like to see your "evidence" that proves there is no God.

Is it not equally "imaginary" to imagine that all the matter in the Universe and all the order (and chaos) just magically appeared from nowhere?

Of course, I realize that that begs the question, "so even if there IS a "God", who created God?

That is the epiphany of faith. And testament to how little humans actually know. So please, don't pretend you do.

That is a great kitty avatar that you have there BasicHumanUnit !!!

 

[yiostheoy]

Got a couple things I would like to discuss.

1 - Why has God been evolving for thousands of years? Does he speak to the church leaders or something? Or do we just make it up? Maybe to fit in more with the times?
Whats the point of giving your life to a God when you don't even know who it really is?

2 - The rapture. Why do Christians believe in the Rapture? Do they realize the idea of a rapture is only a couple hundred years old? If the rapture was real, wouldn't Christians have been talking about it for millennia? Did John Darby fool all of the Christians? Or were ancient Christians, including the ones who wrote the religion, ignorant?

Caught up were the words written, rapture is a word used by preachers. Why did people believe for a millennia that the earth was flat? Because someone told them it was and they believed it. God is the same today as yesterday. It is the humans that catch up in the knowledge of the spirit of God and what was written is merely confirmation when that spirit moves inside of you.

So all those people before are in hell because they believed the wrong things, and only within the last few hundred years have we figured it out?

You are already there and yet you don't even know it, so why be such a bitch about it to others like you do?

Great comeback, but it didn't answer the question. If worship in the right way is is non negotiable, and worship has changed so drastically in the past few hundred years, did the ones before just waste their time?

Speaking of, Christians cant even figure out if hell is real or a metaphor.

Within Christianity Jesus taught that there is a place where hypocrites go, and murderers, and liars, and blind leading the blind.

And he said it is presided over by a diabolical Diabolos.

So you can take that for what it is worth.

If you are not Catholic or Eastern Orthodox or rational Protestant then you don't need to go with it. Just pick another Theist choice -- Buddhism, Hinduism, Confucianism, Islam, Shinto, Zen, Zoroastrianism, Taoism, or any of the many Chinese folk religions.

 

[yiostheoy]

If my personal belief is true, then it does answer all your questions. If my personal belief is not true, I have yet to see refuting evidence.

Equally, I'd like to see your "evidence" that proves there is no God.

You make a very good point.
People only want evidence when its something they don't want to believe in. That goes for religious people and non religious people.

Well Atheists don't want to believe it.

Agnostics tend to be open minded either way, more scientific about the whole matter.

Theists swear someone is watching over them.

Deists are content to live their own lives and stand on their own two feet while still giving God credit for being God.

 

[yiostheoy]

Got a couple things I would like to discuss.

1 - Why has God been evolving for thousands of years? Does he speak to the church leaders or something? Or do we just make it up? Maybe to fit in more with the times?
Whats the point of giving your life to a God when you don't even know who it really is?

2 - The rapture. Why do Christians believe in the Rapture? Do they realize the idea of a rapture is only a couple hundred years old? If the rapture was real, wouldn't Christians have been talking about it for millennia? Did John Darby fool all of the Christians? Or were ancient Christians, including the ones who wrote the religion, ignorant?

You start with false premises. When you do that, it's impossible to engage in meaningful discussion.

what is false?

That God has been "evolving for thousands of years", for one. It's not true. So why would anybody want to try to explain or discuss it with you?

"Do they realize the idea of a rapture is only a couple hundred years old?" another false premise, the tenets of the rapture are there in the bible. Maybe it has only been CALLED "the rapture" more recently, but language changes..just because there's a specific word for it in today's lingo doesn't mean they aren't talking about the events described in the bible.

"The ones that wrote the religion"...false premise. Nobody "wrote the religion".

I hate this sort of garbage. You present a bunch of asshole crap that has no basis in fact, and then demand that Christians step up and defend themselves from your *facts*. Fuck you. Enjoy a fun little round of "let's spread misinformation and pat each other on the backs for being exceptionally witty" with your like minded, anti-Christian pseudo-intellectual ignorami.

If you follow Jesus, koshergrl , then God is truly evolving.

Jesus said he was doing and saying everything he saw his father do.

This is in the Book Of John (to kata ionnan efagelion). If you start reading at John 1:1 and go from there you will run across it in a few paragraphs.

So if that is the case as Jesus said, then both God The Father and Jesus His Son are both evolving.

 

[yiostheoy]

Caught up were the words written, rapture is a word used by preachers. Why did people believe for a millennia that the earth was flat? Because someone told them it was and they believed it. God is the same today as yesterday. It is the humans that catch up in the knowledge of the spirit of God and what was written is merely confirmation when that spirit moves inside of you.

So all those people before are in hell because they believed the wrong things, and only within the last few hundred years have we figured it out?

You are already there and yet you don't even know it, so why be such a bitch about it to others like you do?

Great comeback, but it didn't answer the question. If worship in the right way is is non negotiable, and worship has changed so drastically in the past few hundred years, did the ones before just waste their time?

Speaking of, Christians cant even figure out if hell is real or a metaphor.

Another false premise.

It's real.
The people who claim it's a metaphor are preaching false doctrine, and will be sent to experience its reality eventually.

It sounds like your definition of false premises koshergrl is comprised of anything that you yourself have not yet learned or read or know yet.

 

[yiostheoy]

If my personal belief is true, then it does answer all your questions. If my personal belief is not true, I have yet to see refuting evidence.

Equally, I'd like to see your "evidence" that proves there is no God.

Is it not equally "imaginary" to imagine that all the matter in the Universe and all the order (and chaos) just magically appeared from nowhere?

I don't have a problem with the thought that there could be a God. I just haven't seen much reason to believe there is.

Take a look at Aquinas' 5 ways. Then look all around you.

Five Ways (Aquinas) - Wikipedia

 

[yiostheoy]

Science says we probably got imaginations about 20K years or so ago. It took thousands of years after that for the concept of a god/gods to appear.
Why didn't God appear before then?

How do we know that early humans did not know God? Carving into stone shows some pretty early history of something being communicated.

We would have found something by now, I would think. Especially that long ago.
Something would have been passed down. Or do you think ancient humans worshipped god, it got forgotten and the same stories got "reincarnated?"

We have bunches of stuff -- a dozen major religions all vying for dominance.

We have bagavidgada's, Bibles, Scrolls, etc.

 

[yiostheoy]

God's been evolving? I thought Christians didn't believe in evolution.

Got a couple things I would like to discuss.

1 - Why has God been evolving for thousands of years? Does he speak to the church leaders or something? Or do we just make it up? Maybe to fit in more with the times?
Whats the point of giving your life to a God when you don't even know who it really is?

2 - The rapture. Why do Christians believe in the Rapture? Do they realize the idea of a rapture is only a couple hundred years old? If the rapture was real, wouldn't Christians have been talking about it for millennia? Did John Darby fool all of the Christians? Or were ancient Christians, including the ones who wrote the religion, ignorant?

1. If someone claims they hear the voice of God, admit them to psych unit, as they can be very dangerous.
Its best to live like there is no afterlife as its never been proven, and then one cherishes each day of life and the life of others.

2. The rapture in my book was 70ad with the destruction of Jerusalem and has never ended. We live on by what we leave behind. In other words Pay it Forward.

Some people claim to speak to god by simple illusions or dreams. They cant comprehend it any other way. That's my opinion, at least.
Your book spoke of a rapture? What book is that?

My book means my mind. Its my book, its an expression. Have you read Josephus, The war of the Jews?? That to me was the rapture.

Josephus Flavius is a great epilogue to the Jewish experience relevant even to modern times.

They rebelled from the Romans.

That was the end of their "chosen" status.

Today they are a relic of the ancient past.

 

[yiostheoy]

You are already there and yet you don't even know it, so why be such a bitch about it to others like you do?

Great comeback, but it didn't answer the question. If worship in the right way is is non negotiable, and worship has changed so drastically in the past few hundred years, did the ones before just waste their time?

Speaking of, Christians cant even figure out if hell is real or a metaphor.

Another false premise.

It's real.
The people who claim it's a metaphor are preaching false doctrine, and will be sent to experience its reality eventually.

So why should anyone believe you are right, and they are wrong? Do you have any specific reasons for your beliefs, other than "That's what you were told as you grew up" ?

That's a good point. Why is "anything" considered "right" or "wrong"? Where does the entire foundation of right and wrong come from? It actually varies somewhat depending on the culture but across most of humanity, we share a common ground on right and wrong. Why?

Ancient Greek Philosophy actually resolves this very nicely.

You don't even need Modern Philosophy to get through it.

Good and bad, right and wrong, just and unjust -- these are all emotional responses to choices available to us in the form of Ethics (a branch of Philosophy).

Good feels good.

Bad feels evil.

 

[yiostheoy]

Caught up were the words written, rapture is a word used by preachers. Why did people believe for a millennia that the earth was flat? Because someone told them it was and they believed it. God is the same today as yesterday. It is the humans that catch up in the knowledge of the spirit of God and what was written is merely confirmation when that spirit moves inside of you.

So all those people before are in hell because they believed the wrong things, and only within the last few hundred years have we figured it out?

You are already there and yet you don't even know it, so why be such a bitch about it to others like you do?

Great comeback, but it didn't answer the question. If worship in the right way is is non negotiable, and worship has changed so drastically in the past few hundred years, did the ones before just waste their time?

I will not waste my time making answers to your presumptuous claims or accusations. The spirit burns in your head. I am sure you can feel it when your anger wells up within you. Either worship in spirit and truth or don't and suffer whatever that outcome may be.

I won't be answering any of more your inquiries so take your questions to someone who cares about you and your bs.

Any more of my questions? You have yet to answer even one of them. Spouting platitudes is not an answer. If there is a God, I'm pretty sure he's embarrassed by your pathetic attempts to describe him, and what he might want us to know.

I detect Atheism.

 

[koshergrl]

So all those people before are in hell because they believed the wrong things, and only within the last few hundred years have we figured it out?

You are already there and yet you don't even know it, so why be such a bitch about it to others like you do?

Great comeback, but it didn't answer the question. If worship in the right way is is non negotiable, and worship has changed so drastically in the past few hundred years, did the ones before just waste their time?

I will not waste my time making answers to your presumptuous claims or accusations. The spirit burns in your head. I am sure you can feel it when your anger wells up within you. Either worship in spirit and truth or don't and suffer whatever that outcome may be.

I won't be answering any of more your inquiries so take your questions to someone who cares about you and your bs.

Any more of my questions? You have yet to answer even one of them. Spouting platitudes is not an answer. If there is a God, I'm pretty sure he's embarrassed by your pathetic attempts to describe him, and what he might want us to know.

I detect Atheism.

and mental illness.

 

[yiostheoy]

You start with false premises. When you do that, it's impossible to engage in meaningful discussion.

what is false?

That God has been "evolving for thousands of years", for one. It's not true. So why would anybody want to try to explain or discuss it with you?

"Do they realize the idea of a rapture is only a couple hundred years old?" another false premise, the tenets of the rapture are there in the bible. Maybe it has only been CALLED "the rapture" more recently, but language changes..just because there's a specific word for it in today's lingo doesn't mean they aren't talking about the events described in the bible.

"The ones that wrote the religion"...false premise. Nobody "wrote the religion".

I hate this sort of garbage. You present a bunch of asshole crap that has no basis in fact, and then demand that Christians step up and defend themselves from your *facts*. Fuck you. Enjoy a fun little round of "let's spread misinformation and pat each other on the backs for being exceptionally witty" with your like minded, anti-Christian pseudo-intellectual ignorami.

Oh dear jesus.
NEWSFLASH : the NT is an evolution of a God. That pretty much shuts down your first paragraph.
For the second, show me where the bible talks about god grabbing his followers from earth to take them to heaven. Also, something to consider : Isnt the very idea of the church abandoning people in the roughest times, go against EVERYTHING it is built upon?
Nobody wrote down the religion? Did the books magically appear one day?
I hate Christians like you that bad mouth atheists that are intolerant over the word of god when you cant even discuss things without telling someone to go fuck yourself. Makes you sound like a pseudo-christian.
People like you are why so many people call Christians such hypocrites. I believe in the bible you are supposed to spread the word of god. Not talk shit like some fucking intolerant asshole.
This is the second time you have cussed me because we think differently. Because i triggered your sensibilities. FUCK YOU KG.

Actually that NT is an evolution of the seasons/ages of humankind. Steps in time.

The OT shows the wrath of god towards sinners. The NT shows gods forgiveness and grace towards sinners.
The ot is focused on jews. The NT is focused on his church.
Those are both 180 degree turns IMO.

TNHarley you seem to have a child's view of the Tenakh ("Old Test.).

It's just a bunch of stories that Moses started and which other Hebrews added to.

It is the best they could do at the time.

 

[yiostheoy]

Great comeback, but it didn't answer the question. If worship in the right way is is non negotiable, and worship has changed so drastically in the past few hundred years, did the ones before just waste their time?

Speaking of, Christians cant even figure out if hell is real or a metaphor.

Another false premise.

It's real.
The people who claim it's a metaphor are preaching false doctrine, and will be sent to experience its reality eventually.

So why should anyone believe you are right, and they are wrong? Do you have any specific reasons for your beliefs, other than "That's what you were told as you grew up" ?

That's a good point. Why is "anything" considered "right" or "wrong"? Where does the entire foundation of right and wrong come from? It actually varies somewhat depending on the culture but across most of humanity, we share a common ground on right and wrong. Why?

Basic morality, and the ability to recognize it is innate in each of us. Cave men realized it was easier to survive if you didn't unnecessarily make enemies, and the same has been true ever since. Compassion and fairness are just as advantageous to the person practising them as to the person on the receiving end.

Tell that to ISIS the next time they cut off someone's head.

 

[yiostheoy]

I hate lying atheists who present lies and pretend those lies are evidence that Chistians are stupid.

I hate liars. Children of Satan, spawn of the devil. Deceivers, idolators. No wonder you hate Christians. All liars do.

No. Christians saying and doing stupid stuff are evidence of Christians being stupid.

If they say so much stupid stuff, one wonders why y'all must lie about what they say and believe.

Meanwhile, the Rapture in the bible:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17King James Version (KJV)
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

So yeah, TN is lying when he says "the concept of the rapture" is only a couple of hundred years ago.

Liar.

I was always taught that was about the second coming. Not a "rapture"
Also, I will ask again, doesn't that entire concept of a rapture go against the basic principles of Christianity?

... too much Protestant emphasis on the Book Of Revelation, which Eusebius tells us was a fraud anyway.

 

[yiostheoy]

God's been evolving? I thought Christians didn't believe in evolution.

Got a couple things I would like to discuss.

1 - Why has God been evolving for thousands of years? Does he speak to the church leaders or something? Or do we just make it up? Maybe to fit in more with the times?
Whats the point of giving your life to a God when you don't even know who it really is?

2 - The rapture. Why do Christians believe in the Rapture? Do they realize the idea of a rapture is only a couple hundred years old? If the rapture was real, wouldn't Christians have been talking about it for millennia? Did John Darby fool all of the Christians? Or were ancient Christians, including the ones who wrote the religion, ignorant?

1. If someone claims they hear the voice of God, admit them to psych unit, as they can be very dangerous.
Its best to live like there is no afterlife as its never been proven, and then one cherishes each day of life and the life of others.

2. The rapture in my book was 70ad with the destruction of Jerusalem and has never ended. We live on by what we leave behind. In other words Pay it Forward.

Some people claim to speak to god by simple illusions or dreams. They cant comprehend it any other way. That's my opinion, at least.
Your book spoke of a rapture? What book is that?

If God spoke to you, well your head would explode and you would not understand the divine.

No one since the days of Moses have heard the word of God.

Not true.

Moses was just fine after God (YHVH) spoke to him.

Peter, James, and John were just fine after God (Patyr emon) spoke to them.

Paul was just find after Jesus spoke to him.

Your statement is indefensible. It is a fallacy.

 

[yiostheoy]

God's been evolving? I thought Christians didn't believe in evolution.

Got a couple things I would like to discuss.

1 - Why has God been evolving for thousands of years? Does he speak to the church leaders or something? Or do we just make it up? Maybe to fit in more with the times?
Whats the point of giving your life to a God when you don't even know who it really is?

2 - The rapture. Why do Christians believe in the Rapture? Do they realize the idea of a rapture is only a couple hundred years old? If the rapture was real, wouldn't Christians have been talking about it for millennia? Did John Darby fool all of the Christians? Or were ancient Christians, including the ones who wrote the religion, ignorant?

1. If someone claims they hear the voice of God, admit them to psych unit, as they can be very dangerous.
Its best to live like there is no afterlife as its never been proven, and then one cherishes each day of life and the life of others.

2. The rapture in my book was 70ad with the destruction of Jerusalem and has never ended. We live on by what we leave behind. In other words Pay it Forward.

Some people claim to speak to god by simple illusions or dreams. They cant comprehend it any other way. That's my opinion, at least.
Your book spoke of a rapture? What book is that?

If God spoke to you, well your head would explode and you would not understand the divine.

No one since the days of Moses have heard the word of God.

He didn't either, whoever Moses was.

Josephus Flavius tells us Moses (MOSHE in Hebrew) was a child adopted by a daughter of Pharaoh and raised as a general over Egyptian armies, then expelled by his jealous brother, then sent back by the God YHVH to free the Hebrews from the Egyptians around 1450 BCE.

 

[yiostheoy]

Got a couple things I would like to discuss.

1 - Why has God been evolving for thousands of years? Does he speak to the church leaders or something? Or do we just make it up? Maybe to fit in more with the times?
Whats the point of giving your life to a God when you don't even know who it really is?

2 - The rapture. Why do Christians believe in the Rapture? Do they realize the idea of a rapture is only a couple hundred years old? If the rapture was real, wouldn't Christians have been talking about it for millennia? Did John Darby fool all of the Christians? Or were ancient Christians, including the ones who wrote the religion, ignorant?

1) YHVH (Yah, God- the unspeakable name of God) is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. His word, (Who he is) never changes.

2) In regard to the rapture, there is one scripture that references a type of rapture if you will but nothing concrete. YHVH (Yah, God- the unspeakable name of God) tells us some of his word is meant to remain a mystery. For me personally, this isn't the most important event that I concern myself with regarding my salvation. I have enough faith to believe that YAH's grace is sufficient and that no matter what takes place, he will never leave me nor forsake me.

Well the Tenakh agrees with you on this but the Greek New Testament clearly does not.

You will need to decide if you want to be Jewish or if you want to be Christian and then stop mixing up their scriptures.

 

[yiostheoy]

Ok my summary of your thread so far TNHarley .

First, you could use some Philosophy at this point in your life.

For a taste, read Aquinas' Five Ways:

Five Ways (Aquinas) - Wikipedia

It will take you quite some time to get up to speed where you can sensibly tackle Roger Scruton the leading Modern Philosopher:

Roger Scruton - Wikipedia

Once you tackle Philosophy, then you will be ready to tackle Religion better.

Ultimately you will probably concluded that Religion although ancient (and wicked) is only a vast plethora of Theist flavors of modern brainwashing.

IT LOOKS LIKE YOU YOURSELF HAVE EXCAPED THAT BRAINWASHING ON YOUR OWN TNHarley .

But maybe you have a void that you now need to fill it with ?!

Or else you are just begging the question.

The most important thing to remember overall is not to let Science become your religion. Science was not designed for that.

When Galileo invented Science all he was trying to do was gather data on Jupiter and it's moons.

Science is just data collection followed by inductive speculation about patterns that the data follow.

Science is NOT a Religion. So don't make it your Religion.

 

[BULLDOG]

If my personal belief is true, then it does answer all your questions. If my personal belief is not true, I have yet to see refuting evidence.

Equally, I'd like to see your "evidence" that proves there is no God.

Is it not equally "imaginary" to imagine that all the matter in the Universe and all the order (and chaos) just magically appeared from nowhere?

I don't have a problem with the thought that there could be a God. I just haven't seen much reason to believe there is.

Take a look at Aquinas' 5 ways. Then look all around you.

Five Ways (Aquinas) - Wikipedia

Aquinas had trouble with logic, didn't he?