The € EURO thread

[Trajan]

there has been a lot going on already, and, lets be serious, a great deal more is to come soooooo instead of starting a thread every time the € has a bad day, eats its own, or some such junior calamity on the way to the cataclysmic calamity occurs, we can just post it here and take it all in like we are at the Imax

so, I'll go first-



interesting blurb from the BI- I was wondering why they just didn't cut Greece loose now......right now, now I know, Eurobonds!!!!Hey don't shove..get back in line, theres debt enough to go round.

they plan on doing to the whole EU what our own did to us ( comparatively) , make us eat the banks failures ala our 401ks, etc. the whole EU not just the krauts () will now get to pay to eat Greece like a buffett and the banks get to eat and walk away and leave the checks for the saps....

snip-

The reason leaders want to get Greece to the ESM stage is that it entails some sort of orderly restructuring of the country's debt, where private creditors will take part in the deal. There is the potential that the ESM could swap its debt to creditors in exchange for the sovereign debt they are holding. Essentially, that's a eurobond in exchange for a Greek bond, in everything but name. This has not yet been agreed to, and will likely garner significant political opposition.




Read more: The Real Endgame In Greece That European Leaders Are Privately Praying For

 

[boedicca]

All the big money is going to be in a scramble to keep retail investors on board until they can cash out.

Greece shouldn't be bailed out right now. They broke the convenants on their last bail out. All this is doing is punting the problem down the road a couple of months.

 

[Toro]

The euro as we know it is finished. It is untenable.

Either the political structure has to change such that funds are constantly flowing from the north to the south or the weak countries will leave. There are no other options, unless the PIIGS are to become German copycats.

Its amusing when the market rallies "On a Greek bailout." How many times has that happened over the past year? Seven?

 

[JBeukema]

The symbol of the Euro is a crescent moon!

 

[Zander]

The impending Euro collapse is driving US Long bonds rates even lower. The yield for the 30 yr T-bond is down to 4.22 as of today.


PS- I was laughed at by Toro when I bought in Feb at 4.75. The fund has a duration of 20...do the math baby!!

 

[Toro]

The impending Euro collapse is driving US Long bonds rates even lower. The yield for the 30 yr T-bond is down to 4.22 as of today.


PS- I was laughed at by Toro when I bought in Feb at 4.75. The fund has a duration of 20...do the math baby!!

I didn't laugh. I may disagree but I don't laugh. I've been in the business too long to know that anything can happen. Last survey I checked had 97% of money managers bearish on Treasuries. And though I'm one of them, when that many are on one side of the boat, it gives me pause.

Anyways, the Europeans are doing their best to keep this game of three-card monty going.

Greece’s next aid package may include incentives for bondholders to roll over maturing debt without triggering a credit-rating downgrade that would roil Europe’s banking system, two people with knowledge of the talks said.

Investors may be offered preferred status, higher coupon payments or collateral as inducements to buy bonds replacing Greek debt maturing between 2012 and 2014, said the people, who declined to be identified because the talks are in progress.

The sweeteners would be part of a revised aid package, to be decided by the end of June, amounting to a voluntary extension of Greece’s debt maturities that aims to skirt the technical definition of default, the people said.

EU Said to Consider Sweeteners to Encourage Greek Debt Extension - Bloomberg.com

 

[Trajan]

The impending Euro collapse is driving US Long bonds rates even lower. The yield for the 30 yr T-bond is down to 4.22 as of today.


PS- I was laughed at by Toro when I bought in Feb at 4.75. The fund has a duration of 20...do the math baby!!

I lauged......I laugh at you now, I scoff at you, I fart in your general direction...
....

( how was the Allen bros btw.?)


and don't be getting froggy....$998.00 baby...

 

[Zander]

The impending Euro collapse is driving US Long bonds rates even lower. The yield for the 30 yr T-bond is down to 4.22 as of today.


PS- I was laughed at by Toro when I bought in Feb at 4.75. The fund has a duration of 20...do the math baby!!

I lauged......I laugh at you now, I scoff at you, I fart in your general direction...
....

( how was the Allen bros btw.?)


and don't be getting froggy....$998.00 baby...

Down to 4.15 as of today.
The steaks were stellar. I went with the "dry aged" - the porterhouses are 2" thick and OMFG good. Thanks for the heads up on them.

PS- they threw in 8 burgers with the order- and they were great too!

 

[Trajan]

The impending Euro collapse is driving US Long bonds rates even lower. The yield for the 30 yr T-bond is down to 4.22 as of today.


PS- I was laughed at by Toro when I bought in Feb at 4.75. The fund has a duration of 20...do the math baby!!

I lauged......I laugh at you now, I scoff at you, I fart in your general direction...
....

( how was the Allen bros btw.?)


and don't be getting froggy....$998.00 baby...

Down to 4.15 as of today.
The steaks were stellar. I went with the "dry aged" - the porterhouses are 2" thick and OMFG good. Thanks for the heads up on them.

PS- they threw in 8 burgers with the order- and they were great too!

I didn't get my invite zander


did you get any black truffle butter? duuude its like, well, its almost sexual.....

 

[Zander]

The impending Euro collapse is driving US Long bonds rates even lower. The yield for the 30 yr T-bond is down to 4.22 as of today.


PS- I was laughed at by Toro when I bought in Feb at 4.75. The fund has a duration of 20...do the math baby!!

I didn't laugh. I may disagree but I don't laugh. I've been in the business too long to know that anything can happen. Last survey I checked had 97% of money managers bearish on Treasuries. And though I'm one of them, when that many are on one side of the boat, it gives me pause.

Anyways, the Europeans are doing their best to keep this game of three-card monty going.

Greece’s next aid package may include incentives for bondholders to roll over maturing debt without triggering a credit-rating downgrade that would roil Europe’s banking system, two people with knowledge of the talks said.

Investors may be offered preferred status, higher coupon payments or collateral as inducements to buy bonds replacing Greek debt maturing between 2012 and 2014, said the people, who declined to be identified because the talks are in progress.

The sweeteners would be part of a revised aid package, to be decided by the end of June, amounting to a voluntary extension of Greece’s debt maturities that aims to skirt the technical definition of default, the people said.

EU Said to Consider Sweeteners to Encourage Greek Debt Extension - Bloomberg.com

Just razzing ya Toro- you're the consummate professional and I respect your opinion.

 

[Political Junky]

The Euro is worth $1.447 right now.

 

[Trajan]

this is so , so,surreal....it defys logic, 100 Billion.....100 Billion euros.......Greece....

Spiegel Reports Greek Bailout #2 To Surpass €100 Billion

It's the weekend, which means another Spiegel hit piece over the solvency and stability of the Eurozone is overdue. Sure enough, the publication comes through admirably with "New Greek aid to cost more than one hundred billion euros." As a reminder, until as recently as 24 hours ago it was expected that the bailout would be at most €80 billion, with half coming from Greek privatization efforts. Naturally, this means that even more money will be transferred from taxpayer pockets to bank capital deficiency accounts. Next up: Greek bailouts 3, 4, 5, by which point Goldman will have hopefully achieved its life long ambition of opening a Goldman Sachs-branded ATM at the main entrance to the Acropolis, which GS will have LBOed using discount window capital.

As for the photo from a May 30 protest which accompanies the Spiegel piece, it is sadly amusing that the Greek lady next to the EU Swastika flag is wearing designer glasses and a gold watch.

more at-
Spiegel Reports Greek Bailout #2 To Surpass ?100 Billion | zero hedge

 

[Trajan]

and....

Merkel Changes Stance on Aid to Greece

BERLIN — Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany retreated Friday from demands that private financial institutions be pressured to participate in efforts to rescue the Greek economy, a compromise that seemed to offer some breathing space in Europe’s efforts to confront its potentially ruinous debt crisis.

Her critics in the European Central Bank and in many European capitals had argued that any requirement that private investors absorb some losses risked plunging Greece into a disorderly default on its enormous debt.

But after a two-hour meeting with President Nicolas Sarkozy of France, whose banks are among the most heavily exposed in the Greek debt crisis, Mrs. Merkel relented, saying, “We would like to have a participation of private creditors on a voluntary basis.” She acknowledged, too, that there was no legal way of forcing banks to participate.

“This should be worked out jointly with the E.C.B,” she added, referring to the European Central Bank. “There shouldn’t be any dispute with the E.C.B. on this.” It was her second major political reversal in a month and could compound her political woes at home.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/18/business/global/18euro.html?_r=2&hp

wave bye bye Angie....

 

[Zander]

The question is, how long will the German people continue to pay Greeks to sit around all day, doing nothing but passing olive scented gas? When the state pays people to do nothing, guess what they'll do?

The Euro is over. It will not survive. It was doomed from the beginning.

 

[Political Junky]

The question is, how long will the German people continue to pay Greeks to sit around all day, doing nothing but passing olive scented gas? When the state pays people to do nothing, guess what they'll do?

The Euro is over. It will not survive. It was doomed from the beginning.

In the meantime, the Euro is worth a lot more than the Dollar, which makes travel there expensive for us.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness.”
-*Mark Twain

 

[Zander]

The question is, how long will the German people continue to pay Greeks to sit around all day, doing nothing but passing olive scented gas? When the state pays people to do nothing, guess what they'll do?

The Euro is over. It will not survive. It was doomed from the beginning.

In the meantime, the Euro is worth a lot more than the Dollar, which makes travel there expensive for us.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness.”
-*Mark Twain

IF you are planning to visit Europe, now is probably a good time.

 

[Political Junky]

Why? The Euro is worth $1.43.

 

[Zander]

Why? The Euro is worth $1.43.

Because it is summer and the weather is nice. I am going to Italy in August to visit some family. If you want to wait for a better exchange rate, I expect parity with the dollar over the next few years.

 

[Zander]

Personally. I would tell the Greeks to figure out their own problems. They got themselves into it. If they want to stay with the euro, fine. But we are not going to bail you out. We are not throwing good money after bad. Europe should take the money they are giving to Greece (which is just going to default later anyway) and bail out their financial system directly. Let bondholders lose and realize they actually have to pay attention to what they invest in. Are these guys creditworthy?

It is like loaning your rotten brother-in-law money. You do it to keep peace in the family, but there comes a point when it helps neither him nor you.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

So, you put our entire retirement account into Greek bonds because they were paying such a high rate of interest? What other brilliant things have you done recently that you want to tell me about?