The EU Suppressed a 300-Page Study That Found Piracy Doesn’t Harm Sales

[Confounding]

Thoughts?

https://gizmodo.com/the-eu-suppressed-a-300-page-study-that-found-piracy-do-1818629537

The European Commission paid €360,000 (about $428,000) for a study on how piracy impacts the sales of copyrighted music, books, video games, and movies. But the EU never shared the report—possibly because it determined that there is no evidence that piracy is a major problem.

The Dutch firm Ecory was commissioned to research the impact of piracy for several months, eventually submitting a 304-page report to the EU in May 2015. The report concluded that: “In general, the results do not show robust statistical evidence of displacement of sales by online copyright infringements. That does not necessarily mean that piracy has no effect but only that the statistical analysis does not prove with sufficient reliability that there is an effect.” The report found that illegal downloads and streams can actually boost legal sales of games, according to the report.

 

[whitehall]

Piracy on the high seas? What? You have to define piracy before you excuse it.

 

[Confounding]

Piracy on the high seas? What? You have to define piracy before you excuse it.

Yes, piracy on the high seas was found to not impact the sales of movies, music and video games.

 

[iceberg]

Thoughts?

https://gizmodo.com/the-eu-suppressed-a-300-page-study-that-found-piracy-do-1818629537

The European Commission paid €360,000 (about $428,000) for a study on how piracy impacts the sales of copyrighted music, books, video games, and movies. But the EU never shared the report—possibly because it determined that there is no evidence that piracy is a major problem.

The Dutch firm Ecory was commissioned to research the impact of piracy for several months, eventually submitting a 304-page report to the EU in May 2015. The report concluded that: “In general, the results do not show robust statistical evidence of displacement of sales by online copyright infringements. That does not necessarily mean that piracy has no effect but only that the statistical analysis does not prove with sufficient reliability that there is an effect.” The report found that illegal downloads and streams can actually boost legal sales of games, according to the report.

yea, people still buy music, huh?

i've seen many bands go down because people simply stole music. now there is simply no money in it so people have to find other occupations.

 

[Confounding]

yea, people still buy music, huh?

i've seen many bands go down because people simply stole music. now there is simply no money in it so people have to find other occupations.

What band do you know of that was destroyed by piracy?

 

[iceberg]

yea, people still buy music, huh?

i've seen many bands go down because people simply stole music. now there is simply no money in it so people have to find other occupations.

What band do you know of that was destroyed by piracy?

not even going to get into this. i've run a local internet radio station in dallas since 2000. worked with no names and national acts. had a lot on the brink and sales didn't support the tour yet "fans" would come up and say they just downloaded their songs and LOVE the band...

believe what you want. this isn't debatable to me.

 

[Confounding]

not even going to get into this. i've run a local internet radio station in dallas since 2000. worked with no names and national acts. had a lot on the brink and sales didn't support the tour yet "fans" would come up and say they just downloaded their songs and LOVE the band...

believe what you want. this isn't debatable to me.

I don't think you knew any bands that actually fell apart because of piracy. Maybe you knew bands that didn't make it, but you're probably inaccurately attributing their failure to piracy. Piracy actually tends to help small bands, because name recognition is more important than anything at that stage, and free online downloads make more people more willing to try out some new music.

 

[Ringel05]

not even going to get into this. i've run a local internet radio station in dallas since 2000. worked with no names and national acts. had a lot on the brink and sales didn't support the tour yet "fans" would come up and say they just downloaded their songs and LOVE the band...

believe what you want. this isn't debatable to me.

I don't think you knew any bands that actually fell apart because of piracy. Maybe you knew bands that didn't make it, but you're probably inaccurately attributing their failure to piracy. Piracy actually tends to help small bands, because name recognition is more important than anything at that stage, and free online downloads make more people more willing to try out some new music.

Let's see here, iceberg works in the industry, you're some selfjustifying internet activist......... Who should I believe, the person who works in the field under discussion and has seen first hand the damage done or some excuse making idealistic internet hippy? Uuummmmm.........

 

[iceberg]

not even going to get into this. i've run a local internet radio station in dallas since 2000. worked with no names and national acts. had a lot on the brink and sales didn't support the tour yet "fans" would come up and say they just downloaded their songs and LOVE the band...

believe what you want. this isn't debatable to me.

I don't think you knew any bands that actually fell apart because of piracy. Maybe you knew bands that didn't make it, but you're probably inaccurately attributing their failure to piracy. Piracy actually tends to help small bands, because name recognition is more important than anything at that stage, and free online downloads make more people more willing to try out some new music.

you never had to produce a cd, have you?

any idea how much it costs to produce a single song?
any idea what it takes to succeed in "todays" industry?

i have a great idea. i interview artists about it often. local, and national.

but you must be right so i'll carry on.

 

[Confounding]

Let's see here, iceberg works in the industry, you're some selfjustifying internet activist......... Who should I believe, the person who works in the field under discussion and has seen first hand the damage done or some excuse making idealistic internet hippy? Uuummmmm.........

As always, what you choose to believe is your prerogative.

 

[Ringel05]

Let's see here, iceberg works in the industry, you're some selfjustifying internet activist......... Who should I believe, the person who works in the field under discussion and has seen first hand the damage done or some excuse making idealistic internet hippy? Uuummmmm.........

As always, what you choose to believe is your prerogative.

Just pointing out the obvious.

 

[Confounding]

any idea how much it costs to produce a single song?
any idea what it takes to succeed in "todays" industry?

That cost would not have been subsidized by people that wouldn't have listened to the music in the first place without piracy. A lot of the time people are willing to listen to or watch something that was pirated, but never would have paid money for it. If I was never going to pay for that song my illegal download of it has done nothing but give that artist a little bit more name recognition. I'm sure it's hard to be a success in the music industry, but that's not because of piracy. It's because there's so much competition and talent out there. Those bands you knew that fell just short, was that really because of piracy, or was it because they failed to find that special something that separated them from the herd? I wonder...

 

[Confounding]

Just pointing out the obvious.

You've added nothing of substance to the conversation. You've simply let me know that you're assuming Iceberg is right.

Cool.

 

[iceberg]

Let's see here, iceberg works in the industry, you're some selfjustifying internet activist......... Who should I believe, the person who works in the field under discussion and has seen first hand the damage done or some excuse making idealistic internet hippy? Uuummmmm.........

As always, what you choose to believe is your prerogative.

the same for you. i can tell you first hand of the damages and hell, name the bands so you can go ask them.

but you will still think what you want and minimize what i say so i simply see no point in going there.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

yea, people still buy music, huh?

i've seen many bands go down because people simply stole music. now there is simply no money in it so people have to find other occupations.

What band do you know of that was destroyed by piracy?

not even going to get into this. i've run a local internet radio station in dallas since 2000. worked with no names and national acts. had a lot on the brink and sales didn't support the tour yet "fans" would come up and say they just downloaded their songs and LOVE the band...

believe what you want. this isn't debatable to me.

I would agree it flies in the face of common sense. Something stolen is something not sold for a profit.

Having said that it is also a form of free advertising as weird as that sounds. It's hard to explain but if I pirate a movie and enjoy it, I then tell everyone I know how good it was which leads to legit sales or rentals.

There have been video game developers that said they welcome the piracy because it increases their exposure.

I'm not condoning it, just admitting that it's a convoluted topic with many factors to consider.

 

[Ringel05]

Just pointing out the obvious.

You've added nothing of substance to the conversation. You've simply let me know that you're assuming Iceberg is right.

Cool.

Not even a good deflection on your part....... And here I thought you had deflection down to an art form. Oh well.

 

[iceberg]

yea, people still buy music, huh?

i've seen many bands go down because people simply stole music. now there is simply no money in it so people have to find other occupations.

What band do you know of that was destroyed by piracy?

not even going to get into this. i've run a local internet radio station in dallas since 2000. worked with no names and national acts. had a lot on the brink and sales didn't support the tour yet "fans" would come up and say they just downloaded their songs and LOVE the band...

believe what you want. this isn't debatable to me.

I would agree it flies in the face of common sense. Something stolen is something not sold for a profit.

Having said that it is also a form of free advertising as weird as that sounds. It's hard to explain but if I pirate a movie and enjoy it, I then tell everyone I know how good it was which leads to legit sales or rentals.

There have been video game developers that said they welcome the piracy because it increases their exposure.

I'm not condoning it, just admitting that it's a convoluted topic with many factors to consider.

ok.
advertising for what? also, people can pick and choose *how* they advertise. they can't pick or choose whether or not someone steals their music.

bands can and have given away their music and today, they pretty much accept it going in. to "succeed" today you need to be an illiterate 14 year old or put yourself in a position to where you simply don't need to be signed, you're do it yourself.

no labels will sign a band they need to invest in. period. those days are gone. why?

cause no one is buying music.

for a band who's good but doesn't have much funding now needs to go spend thousands of dollars in studios or for the equipment to do it at home and spend more. as for "well it's advertising".

when you advertise you hope to sell something. that would be *you* in this instance because you can't sell the music anymore. you can try but people just steal it anyway or load up a playlist and don't bother to buy it. the overall need is gone but that's not the same as piracy. piracy itself is dying simply because i can pay slacker or amazon or pick one to load up all the songs i want from anyone i want and play them whenever i want.

the concept of "ownership" isn't the same today so the "pirate" argument isn't either. the bands i speak of are long ago and honestly this is a dead argument. i told a friend over a decade ago buying songs would become pointless because you're always connected to a source that will play whatever you want for a small $3.99 a month fee. why spend $10 on a CD or mp3's? the money has shifted and this argument for the most part is dead. this friend told me i was crazy and nothing would replace physical ownership.

oops.

but again - advertising? piracy? these are really legacy concepts and a band today just knows there will be no money or help in the short term. it makes it very difficult for bands to succeed as again, they must do it all on their own.

but they can. they do every day. all those saying rock is dead are only seeing the massive sales of the 80s-90s. today has shifted dramatically and even a band who does get a ton of streams doesn't get much $$$ to go with it. it's a bitch of a business to be sure but here's an example of a small band i'll bet no one has heard of that hit 27 on the charts recently and just got off their first US tour.



dude can friggin sing it.


it's a huge investment and piracy isn't the issue. it's where *will* the money come from?

BMI? ASCAP? SoundExchange? hardly. i pay them so they can pay the artists but the funny part is, they never ask me who i'm playing.

slight disconnect.

i'm for sure not an expert on the industry, but i do have 15+ years of internet radio experience and working with bands to pull from. if someone has more i'd love to hear their input but debating piracy is like debating bell bottom jeans.

those times are gone and the argument has shifted. but there is no denial piracy cost tons of bands in the crossfire of technical evolution.

 

[iceberg]

Just pointing out the obvious.

You've added nothing of substance to the conversation. You've simply let me know that you're assuming Iceberg is right.

Cool.

and you're assuming i'm wrong.

i think my above post just smoked the entire concept. if you don't get it or understand what i'm saying then you have no chance to be "right" in this argument anywhere but in your own mind.

have a great friday and buy some blacktop mojo. tell 'em iceberg sent ya.

 

[whitehall]

The EU commissioned a Dutch firm to study the impact of the theft of music and videos? What do the Dutch know about it? The post belongs in the media forum anyway. It's not politics.