The Erosion of Individual Responsibility

[uscitizen]

imho too big to fail is too big to let exist since it poses a threat to the USA.

 

[The T]

Boosh is not president anymore. Or so I keep hearing from those who took personal responsibility for electing him twice.

That was the best thing that happened to this country considering the situation we were in at the time of 9/11. Better to have him in office instead of some pantywaist pussy like Gore who would have turned over half the world to Al Qaeda with his yellow belly coward approach to foreign policy.

and in 2004? When Iraq was in quagmire status and all the reasons for invadinng had been debunked and spending was out of control?
Supplemental spending funding the war?

Democrats have been at the helm since '07. WHY are we still there?

Explain.

 

[Gadawg73]

Americans do not want to have to get their own health insurance. They DEMAND their employer provide it in a group policy as a "benefit", the absolute worst way to run a health care program as the insurance company is a third party.
American investors, mostly of the right wing variety, blamed government rules and regulations as causing the bank and financial failures. That one is the biggest laugher of all time as I work for banks as a consultant. They did themselves in.
Personal responsibility, or lack of it, knows no party affiliation.

Employers no longer want to be in the health insurance business. It used to be a nice, low cost benefit they could provide. Now, it is becoming prohibitively expensive. More costs are now dumped on the employee. More employers are finding creative ways to avoid offering health insurance to new employees. Without government sponsored insurance pools, many more Americans will be locked out of the insurance market.

People scream that they don't want the government to make health insurance decisions for them.........Then why do you want your employer to make health insurance decisions for you?

More dishonesty...as expected.

You call employers letting their employees turn down coverage as employers making that decision? They allow an employee to OPT OUT of employer based health insurance and that's why 16 million Americans did just that!!!!!! A full 70% of them under 30 years of age!!!! They did NOT want health insurance and Obama just took that freedom from them. The Administration thinks this will lower premiums....nothing could be further from the truth....and now many of the groups that originally said that this law was a good thing are now sayiong it's not such a great thing after all. Funny. The more they read the law and see what it affects the worse off the country seems to be. Why is that?

I run three corporations so how I am being dishonest when I pay clse to 40K in health insurance premiums a year?
How many do you employ and howmany different scenarios do you have with health insurance companies?
The reason 16 million Americans opted out of employer health insurance is that they are young and dumb. They would rather have a new car. Name someone that is NOT forced to buy car insurance. Are you attempting to tell us with a straight face that the uninsured incur NO medical costs and it is the taxpayer that IS NOT paying for their entire costs NOW? The facts are, as you either choose to ignore them or just have have no clue about this subject, that unmanaged care and the costs associated with it for those tens ofmillions is the fastest growing area of run away costs other than senior dope plan and chronic disease care.
You are right in that the inefficiencies of having a third party, a for profit entity such as ain insurance company, having to fully insure the entire population, will cause short term premiums to rise just as it did in the car insurance industry. However, the fact that the uninsured will now be forced to join the managed care and costs system, just as they arein the vehicle insurance industry, underwriting will be universal as in the vehicle industry.
The current system of disease care is fucked my man. We pay 55% for 4% of the population to receive chronic disease care. We are one of the unhealthiest nations on earth. My businesses can not sustain the spiraling costs of the current blank check system where a large % of the care given is unmanaged for the uninsured. They have $ for their cars but not their own health. Priorities.

 

[uscitizen]

That was the best thing that happened to this country considering the situation we were in at the time of 9/11. Better to have him in office instead of some pantywaist pussy like Gore who would have turned over half the world to Al Qaeda with his yellow belly coward approach to foreign policy.

and in 2004? When Iraq was in quagmire status and all the reasons for invadinng had been debunked and spending was out of control?
Supplemental spending funding the war?

Democrats have been at the helm since '07. WHY are we still there?

Explain.

Well gutless Dems is one reason. Bush was still commander in Chief.
Obama is also gutless in pulling out of Iraq.


There are economic reasons for not pulling out of Iraq as well.
Do you think any of the arms manufacturer lobbyists are saying to pull out?
Also the unemployment rate would go up.

In any case I still say pull out.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Name someone that is NOT forced to buy car insurance.

If I had a list of people who CHOSE PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION I could give you a list of SEVERAL MILLION.

and driving a car is a PRIVILEGE!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT A GODDAM RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[The T]

and in 2004? When Iraq was in quagmire status and all the reasons for invadinng had been debunked and spending was out of control?
Supplemental spending funding the war?

Democrats have been at the helm since '07. WHY are we still there?

Explain.

Well gutless Dems is one reason. Bush was still commander in Chief.
Obama is also gutless in pulling out of Iraq.


There are economic reasons for not pulling out of Iraq as well.
Do you think any of the arms manufacturer lobbyists are saying to pull out?
Also the unemployment rate would go up.

In any case I still say pull out.

But yet it is still funded BY the Congress. Haven't we been told that once Obama was elected his FIRST act was to get us OUT of Iraq?

The Congress may pull funding anytime they like. (I know what you're saying). If this effort is such a 'drain' on our resources as I've so oft read here? WHY are we still there? Why did Obama send more troops to A-Stan?

Why will we have troops still in Iraq after the formal 'pullout'?

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Employers no longer want to be in the health insurance business. It used to be a nice, low cost benefit they could provide. Now, it is becoming prohibitively expensive. More costs are now dumped on the employee. More employers are finding creative ways to avoid offering health insurance to new employees. Without government sponsored insurance pools, many more Americans will be locked out of the insurance market.

People scream that they don't want the government to make health insurance decisions for them.........Then why do you want your employer to make health insurance decisions for you?

More dishonesty...as expected.

You call employers letting their employees turn down coverage as employers making that decision? They allow an employee to OPT OUT of employer based health insurance and that's why 16 million Americans did just that!!!!!! A full 70% of them under 30 years of age!!!! They did NOT want health insurance and Obama just took that freedom from them. The Administration thinks this will lower premiums....nothing could be further from the truth....and now many of the groups that originally said that this law was a good thing are now sayiong it's not such a great thing after all. Funny. The more they read the law and see what it affects the worse off the country seems to be. Why is that?

I run three corporations so how I am being dishonest when I pay clse to 40K in health insurance premiums a year?
How many do you employ and howmany different scenarios do you have with health insurance companies?
The reason 16 million Americans opted out of employer health insurance is that they are young and dumb. They would rather have a new car. Name someone that is NOT forced to buy car insurance. Are you attempting to tell us with a straight face that the uninsured incur NO medical costs and it is the taxpayer that IS NOT paying for their entire costs NOW? The facts are, as you either choose to ignore them or just have have no clue about this subject, that unmanaged care and the costs associated with it for those tens ofmillions is the fastest growing area of run away costs other than senior dope plan and chronic disease care.
You are right in that the inefficiencies of having a third party, a for profit entity such as ain insurance company, having to fully insure the entire population, will cause short term premiums to rise just as it did in the car insurance industry. However, the fact that the uninsured will now be forced to join the managed care and costs system, just as they arein the vehicle insurance industry, underwriting will be universal as in the vehicle industry.
The current system of disease care is fucked my man. We pay 55% for 4% of the population to receive chronic disease care. We are one of the unhealthiest nations on earth. My businesses can not sustain the spiraling costs of the current blank check system where a large % of the care given is unmanaged for the uninsured. They have $ for their cars but not their own health. Priorities.

Now to the rest of this babbling bullshit.....

So it's your 3 corporation running opinion that people who opt out of health insurance because they are "young and dumb" and incur healthcare expenses that the burden of caring for their "young and dumb" attitude should be placed on me?

Sorry...but FUCK YOU!

 

[The T]

Name someone that is NOT forced to buy car insurance.

If I had a list of people who CHOSE PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION I could give you a list of SEVERAL MILLION.

and driving a car is a PRIVILEGE!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT A GODDAM RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Exactly. The government by virtue of building/funding the roads (post roads, and all that Constitutional nonsense)...have the right to ensure Public Safety from those that make use of them.

Healthcare on the other hand is not a right but a responsibility of the individual.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

You know...I got a family to take care of Gadawg...why the hell should I pay for someone else's lack of individual responsibility...EXPLAIN THAT TO ME!!!!!

 

[The T]

You know...I got a family to take care of Gadawg...why the hell should I pay for someone else's lack of individual responsibility...EXPLAIN THAT TO ME!!!!!

The Hidebeast explained that one in "It Takes A Villiage"...

These people don't like individual responsibility. For it would require the welfare punks, brood mares, Poverty pimps to get off their collective asses.

Jefferson warned of the danger when the electorate could vote themselves into the largesse of the treasury. We are seeing it. From apathy to dependence.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

I noticed they all ran away when confronted with reality.

 

[The T]

I noticed they all ran away when confronted with reality.

As a matter of course. it's what they do. I could hear several doors closing upon their exit.

Reality is like that.

 

[Gatekeeper]

You know...I got a family to take care of Gadawg...why the hell should I pay for someone else's lack of individual responsibility...EXPLAIN THAT TO ME!!!!!

I concur, why the hell should I or anyone else who are trying like hell to make ends meet have to endure paying for someone elses G'damn health care. Now with this out of control president that is so obsessed with his new found power he has condemned the nation to lifetimes of debt, and forcing us to take on other families as healthcare dependents

If your biz is being strained by excess healthcare BS and other issues, sell the damn things and retire like I did, who needs the BS of owning a small or medium size biz when all your there for any longer is for a Union to control you and take your money, for state and federal to control you and take your money, and now 'healthcare freeloaders' to take your money via the Feds.

Healthcare freeloaders imho, Those who are ready and able to work but who are to damn lazy to get off their collective butts and get a job,but let the rest of us support them in a manner to which they are accustomed to, kickin back!
Those unable to work for health reasons, the disabled, single parents trying to make ends meet etc, I have no problem with helping them at all from my tax dollars.

 

[Christopher]

The difference is that rather than just gifting the money as a bailout, as was done under Bush, The Obama administration demanded collateral in return for the money provided. This prevented the company from continuing the policies that got them in debt and protected the taxpayer.
The result has been banks paying back the money they were loaned and some even resulting in Government profit. GM is now stable and is prepared to pay back the government money.

Bailouts are not the norm. They are reserved for critical industries at severe economic times. The economy was on the verge of depression and these government bailouts prevented it

We let government apply the label of "too big to fail". That was our downfall. To try and say the Obama administration is not taking on more (or planning to) of our individual responsibilities than the Bush administration did is just spin.

Yes, GM was "too big to fail". A collapse of GM would have had repercussions in supplier industries throughout the nation.
What specific "individual responsibilities" are you afraid you will lose?

Just to add to what has already been said in response to you here, no, they are not “too big to fail”. What you have agreed to in saying they are is that the government has the responsibility to bail this company out. You have agreed that we will lose more of our freedom from taxes because we have to collectively bail out GM.

All this label does is create a moral hazard in the market. Large companies can now take much greater risks knowing they are “too big to fail”. How does that help us avert economic issues with these companies in the future?

There have already been negative consequences from GM in the economy even with the bail outs. We should have let the market recover on its own (which it would have just like the steel industry did), and avoid creating more moral hazards in the market.

One responsibility in particular we will lose under Obama is buying health insurance or not, as has already been said. There are many others. I can see you have set up your question presuming to think I “fear” losing our individual responsibility. As I said in the original post, I am saddened by our loss of individual responsibility.

Herbert Spencer once said: “The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.” How true that is.

 

[Christopher]

The difference is that rather than just gifting the money as a bailout, as was done under Bush, The Obama administration demanded collateral in return for the money provided. This prevented the company from continuing the policies that got them in debt and protected the taxpayer.
The result has been banks paying back the money they were loaned and some even resulting in Government profit. GM is now stable and is prepared to pay back the government money.

Bailouts are not the norm. They are reserved for critical industries at severe economic times. The economy was on the verge of depression and these government bailouts prevented it

We let government apply the label of "too big to fail". That was our downfall. To try and say the Obama administration is not taking on more (or planning to) of our individual responsibilities than the Bush administration did is just spin.

Boosh is not president anymore. Or so I keep hearing from those who took personal responsibility for electing him twice.

Exactly, just tell that to rightwinger.

 

[The T]

You know...I got a family to take care of Gadawg...why the hell should I pay for someone else's lack of individual responsibility...EXPLAIN THAT TO ME!!!!!

I concur, why the hell should I or anyone else who are trying like hell to make ends meet have to endure paying for someone elses G'damn health care. Now with this out of control president that is so obsessed with his new found power he has condemned the nation to lifetimes of debt, and forcing us to take on other families as healthcare dependents

If your biz is being strained by excess healthcare BS and other issues, sell the damn things and retire like I did, who needs the BS of owning a small or medium size biz when all your there for any longer is for a Union to control you and take your money, for state and federal to control you and take your money, and now 'healthcare freeloaders' to take your money via the Feds.

Healthcare freeloaders imho, Those who are ready and able to work but who are to damn lazy to get off their collective butts and get a job,but let the rest of us support them in a manner to which they are accustomed to, kickin back!
Those unable to work for health reasons, the disabled, single parents trying to make ends meet etc, I have no problem with helping them at all from my tax dollars.

he's in effect making us, and future generations Slaves to Government incurred Debt. Bottom line.

 

[Gadawg73]

Name someone that is NOT forced to buy car insurance.

If I had a list of people who CHOSE PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION I could give you a list of SEVERAL MILLION.

and driving a car is a PRIVILEGE!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT A GODDAM RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do not believe health care is a right and never said so.
Hate to tell you my man but public transportation vehicles ARE ALSO FORCED TO CARRY INSURANCE.

 

[The T]

Name someone that is NOT forced to buy car insurance.

If I had a list of people who CHOSE PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION I could give you a list of SEVERAL MILLION.

and driving a car is a PRIVILEGE!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT A GODDAM RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do not believe health care is a right and never said so.
Hate to tell you my man but public transportation vehicles ARE ALSO FORCED TO CARRY INSURANCE.

*As they Should. Government controlled vehicles also carry the burden. So? What was your point again?

 

[uscitizen]

Democrats have been at the helm since '07. WHY are we still there?

Explain.

Well gutless Dems is one reason. Bush was still commander in Chief.
Obama is also gutless in pulling out of Iraq.


There are economic reasons for not pulling out of Iraq as well.
Do you think any of the arms manufacturer lobbyists are saying to pull out?
Also the unemployment rate would go up.

In any case I still say pull out.

But yet it is still funded BY the Congress. Haven't we been told that once Obama was elected his FIRST act was to get us OUT of Iraq?

The Congress may pull funding anytime they like. (I know what you're saying). If this effort is such a 'drain' on our resources as I've so oft read here? WHY are we still there? Why did Obama send more troops to A-Stan?

Why will we have troops still in Iraq after the formal 'pullout'?

I have not voted for nor will I vote for anyone who voted for Bush's Iraq resoloution.

Can you say the same?

 

[The T]

Well gutless Dems is one reason. Bush was still commander in Chief.
Obama is also gutless in pulling out of Iraq.


There are economic reasons for not pulling out of Iraq as well.
Do you think any of the arms manufacturer lobbyists are saying to pull out?
Also the unemployment rate would go up.

In any case I still say pull out.

But yet it is still funded BY the Congress. Haven't we been told that once Obama was elected his FIRST act was to get us OUT of Iraq?

The Congress may pull funding anytime they like. (I know what you're saying). If this effort is such a 'drain' on our resources as I've so oft read here? WHY are we still there? Why did Obama send more troops to A-Stan?

Why will we have troops still in Iraq after the formal 'pullout'?

I have not voted for nor will I vote for anyone who voted for Bush's Iraq resoloution.

Can you say the same?

*Obama* Seems to support it.

Why? Why did you vote for Obama? Did he LIE to you and millions of others?