The Epic Fail of Bush and Cheney that led to the recession

[Oddball]

I know you guys just want to point at the other guys. But anyone with a scrap of honesty knows that both parties are responsible to some degree because of their actions and inactions.

However, the American people are even more responsible. We are free people. We are free to educate ourselves. We have a responsibility not to let greed blind us to the truth.

The Housing market collapse started this because people

1) Dishonestly took out loans they knew they couldn't pay back
2) Dishonestly lent out loans they knew wouldn't be paid back and then sold them to someone else
3) Lied to themselves by convincing themselves that prices would always go up. That there could be no risk or limited risk.
4) Elected politicians that are known to be corrupt as hell
5) Want to blame everyone else for their mistakes and pretend they are victims

We have had an economic recession because of our unchecked greed, dishonesty, and pride.

Some people seem to think that changing the laws are going to fix that. It won't It will just restrict the honest people. We can't change the laws to fix this problem. We need to change the people. That can't happen as long as you continue playing the blame game.

We start with ourselves. Change ourselves and we change the world

aint the "free market" great?

You can look at that post and conclude that's the free market at work?

Seriously?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Tea Party Samurai, you have been pwned every time you creep out from under the rock, so come on, girl, and get reamed again.

Both parties were at fault; that is the point. And Cheney is trying to absolve his part. He won't be able to do that.

 

[Common Sense]

I know you guys just want to point at the other guys. But anyone with a scrap of honesty knows that both parties are responsible to some degree because of their actions and inactions.

However, the American people are even more responsible. We are free people. We are free to educate ourselves. We have a responsibility not to let greed blind us to the truth.

The Housing market collapse started this because people

1) Dishonestly took out loans they knew they couldn't pay back
2) Dishonestly lent out loans they knew wouldn't be paid back and then sold them to someone else
3) Lied to themselves by convincing themselves that prices would always go up. That there could be no risk or limited risk.
4) Elected politicians that are known to be corrupt as hell
5) Want to blame everyone else for their mistakes and pretend they are victims

We have had an economic recession because of our unchecked greed, dishonesty, and pride.

Some people seem to think that changing the laws are going to fix that. It won't It will just restrict the honest people. We can't change the laws to fix this problem. We need to change the people. That can't happen as long as you continue playing the blame game.

We start with ourselves. Change ourselves and we change the world

aint the "free market" great?

You can look at that post and conclude that's the free market at work?

Seriously?

the free market principle is that you let business and people do as they wish without any government regulation or interference.

well lending companies who went unregulated were able to develop products such as ARM's and Interest only loans that had the false premise of initial low mortgage payments. This would then reset to higher levels at a later date, thus people could get into homes on the cheap. hence free market. they allowed for lax lending laws and people with credit scores as low as 400 and 500 were approved on huge home loans. this was also coupled with the idea of doing "stated income" to help qualify. Since there was no verification of income, because there were no laws requiring so, people could simply lie and get approved. this was all ok though, because people and companies were making so much money, no one stopped to check or care. these were later deemed to be predatory lending schemes.

the free market ran rampant during this time. tell me how this is not free market?

 

[Oddball]

They didn't "allow" people with crappy credit to get mortgages they couldn't repay...The lenders were basically coerced into doing so, by politicians and other assorted do-gooders, who screeched about "affordable housing" and "red lining".

Coercion is the farthest thing from a free market that as you can get.

 

[Common Sense]

They didn't "allow" people with crappy credit to get mortgages they couldn't repay...The lenders were basically coerced into doing so, by politicians and other assorted do-gooders, who screeched about "affordable housing" and "red lining".

Coercion is the farthest thing from a free market that as you can get.

so it was the republican controlled congress who pushed lenders to give thier money away to people who knew they couldnt repay it? right.........

 

[CrusaderFrank]

"These two entities....

 

[BlindBoo]

Oh yeah from 3.18 on the deficit to THREE TIMES THAT in 2009. Sure shows Bush is at fault!

Want to try that again???????

Exactly, 2009 was a Bush budget. Thank you for confirming this.

Oh gee I guess you libs forgot what Obama added in 2009.

No I think most normal people see that as proof both Bush and Obama contributed to that huge increase in the debt and that it is not solely one or the other's fault.

Can any of you idiots say Simulus???

Um sure, but the question I have is can you have a conversation with someone whom you disagree with without resorting to that?

Recovery Act: How Obama's Stimulus Is Changing America - TIME

You idiots trying to tell us Bush was behind the Obama stimulus?

You guys are dumber than a bag hammers!

 

[Wry Catcher]

They didn't "allow" people with crappy credit to get mortgages they couldn't repay...The lenders were basically coerced into doing so, by politicians and other assorted do-gooders, who screeched about "affordable housing" and "red lining".

Coercion is the farthest thing from a free market that as you can get.

Oh, really wise one? I heard of something called dirivatives, where lenders bundled a whole bunch of mortagege loans and sold them at profit to investors who sold them to investors. Sort like a ponzi scheme or a chain letter.
Placing sole blame on the government is what I expect from an anarchists - a chicken hawk anarchist at that.

 

[Common Sense]

They didn't "allow" people with crappy credit to get mortgages they couldn't repay...The lenders were basically coerced into doing so, by politicians and other assorted do-gooders, who screeched about "affordable housing" and "red lining".

Coercion is the farthest thing from a free market that as you can get.

Oh, really wise one? I heard of something called dirivatives, where lenders bundled a whole bunch of mortagege loans and sold them at profit to investors who sold them to investors. Sort like a ponzi scheme or a chain letter.
Placing sole blame on the government is what I expect from an anarchists - a chicken hawk anarchist at that.

and were derivatives regulated? ummmmmm nope, just like hedge funds arent regulated either.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

They didn't "allow" people with crappy credit to get mortgages they couldn't repay...The lenders were basically coerced into doing so, by politicians and other assorted do-gooders, who screeched about "affordable housing" and "red lining".

Coercion is the farthest thing from a free market that as you can get.

so it was the republican controlled congress who pushed lenders to give thier money away to people who knew they couldnt repay it? right.........

Yeah, there ya go. Spot on as usual.

Good grief.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

You should all do a little reading on the following folks involvement before you continue:

Angelo Mozilo, Phil Gramm, Alan Greenspan, Chris Cox, Hank Paulson, Joe Cassano, Ian McCarthy, Frank Raines, Kathleen Corbet, Dick Fuld, Marion and Herb Sandler, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, Stan O'Neal, Wen Jiabao, David Lereah, John Devaney, Bernie Madoff, Lew Ranieri, Burton Jablin, Fred Goodwin, Sandy Weill, David Oddsson, Jimmy Cayne

 

[Oddball]

They didn't "allow" people with crappy credit to get mortgages they couldn't repay...The lenders were basically coerced into doing so, by politicians and other assorted do-gooders, who screeched about "affordable housing" and "red lining".

Coercion is the farthest thing from a free market that as you can get.

Oh, really wise one? I heard of something called dirivatives, where lenders bundled a whole bunch of mortagege loans and sold them at profit to investors who sold them to investors. Sort like a ponzi scheme or a chain letter.
Placing sole blame on the government is what I expect from an anarchists - a chicken hawk anarchist at that.

and were derivatives regulated? ummmmmm nope, just like hedge funds arent regulated either.

The worthless derivatives wouldn't have existed if people who had no business getting mortgages weren't getting mortgages.

And the people who had no business getting the mortgages wouldn't have been getting them, were it not for pressure on the lenders from the political class.

Sheesh.

 

[Common Sense]

They didn't "allow" people with crappy credit to get mortgages they couldn't repay...The lenders were basically coerced into doing so, by politicians and other assorted do-gooders, who screeched about "affordable housing" and "red lining".

Coercion is the farthest thing from a free market that as you can get.

so it was the republican controlled congress who pushed lenders to give thier money away to people who knew they couldnt repay it? right.........

Yeah, there ya go. Spot on as usual.

Good grief.

im simply trying to show that the argument of always blaming on party for everything is stupid. its both parties fault for everything.

it just all compounded into the current disaster that we are in.

(if you didnt know, this is direct response to the thread title "Fail to the Chief". and it actually turned into the exact same thread)

i got all the answers i was looking for. republicans blame a democratic congress when bush was in the white house, but dont take any responsibility for when they controlled both congress and the WH. Now that both the WH and congress belong to the dems, they are now all of sudden chanting this mantra that republicans will magically come to the rescue. its 2006 and 2008 all over again just the parties have switched.

in not way shape or form do i think only Bush is blame for everything. (although there is a lot of things he did that i disagree with, and a few that he did that i agree with). just as i dont think Obama is to blame for everything as well (there are both things i agree and disagree with that he has done). no president has been perfect. but if you call yourself conservative, or liberal or whatever, take some ownership when your party royally f*cks up.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Oh, really wise one? I heard of something called dirivatives, where lenders bundled a whole bunch of mortagege loans and sold them at profit to investors who sold them to investors. Sort like a ponzi scheme or a chain letter.
Placing sole blame on the government is what I expect from an anarchists - a chicken hawk anarchist at that.

and were derivatives regulated? ummmmmm nope, just like hedge funds arent regulated either.

The worthless derivatives wouldn't have existed if people who had no business getting mortgages weren't getting mortgages.

And the people who had no business getting the mortgages wouldn't have been getting them, were it not for pressure on the lenders from the political class.

Sheesh.

bull shit. Lenders knew the paper was, shall we say problematic, so they bundled them all together and sold them to investors, who sold them to investors. Of course they weren't regulated which is why the big fuck up occured.
Now an effort to regulate Wall Street and the big banks is being oppossed by the Republican Party and morons like you.
Bank and bankers are not the friend of the American people, only fools believe human beings will self-regulate. You can take that to the bank, but if you have an ounce of sense, take it to a credit union. Oh, yea, a booooooooooooooosh brother fucked that up in the '80's. Make damn sure no bush kin is on any board of directors.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Oddude? Meister? I expected at least a personal attack before you ran away (never did I expect a reasoned response, not from two members of the echo chamber).

they ran away?.....it took you approx. 35 min to respond to what Meister said.....10 mins after you replied,because they did not jump on your reply,your accusing them of running away....geezus.....i guess your an important guy and no one should keep you waiting.....

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Trashing the economy is something the right wing are pretty good at. Along with increasing the debt and deficit.

Democrats are still better at the destruction.

They spent every dime of americas retirement.

 

[Truthseeker420]

lol

 

[Truthseeker420]

I like bashing Bush as mush as anyone but you have to give a lot of credit to Congress 1996-2006 and Clinton.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I like bashing Bush as mush as anyone but you have to give a lot of credit to Congress 1996-2006 and Clinton.

I'd imagine Daddy Bush is a HUGE fan.....

....o' BILL CLINTON!!!!!

"...'N, these are the things they do, to you, at the Graystone Hotel, if Bill Clinton doesn't bail-your-ass, OUT!!"​

 

[Truthseeker420]

I like bashing Bush as mush as anyone but you have to give a lot of credit to Congress 1996-2006 and Clinton.

I'd imagine Daddy Bush is a HUGE fan.....

....o' BILL CLINTON!!!!!

"...'N, these are the things they do, to you, at the Graystone Hotel, if Bill Clinton doesn't bail-your-ass, OUT!!"​

Yes he looked out for the Bush Family and passed NAFTA.