The End of the Christian Right

[Uncensored2008]

Really. Then there should be data which shows this trend. Feel free to post it.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/History-Decline-Empire-Penguin-Classics/dp/0140437649/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1327013252&sr=1-1]Amazon.com: The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (Penguin Classics) (9780140437645): Edward Gibbon, David P. Womersley: Books[/ame]

Do try and keep up.

 

[InDoctriNation]

Yeah, kind of like when civil rights was forced upon the majority as well. Amazing that the country hasn't been torn apart yet because black people get to use the same bathrooms as white people. The insanity and delusions of the extreme right wing are on full display in this thread.....you people need help.

 

[Uncensored2008]

"Feel the hate flow through you..."

Like I said, the last angry gasp of a dying subculture.

America is a dying subculture?

How unsurprising to read that from you....

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The Founding Fathers must be rolling over in their graves when they see the left's slobbering hatred of Christianity today.

More nonsense – on one ‘hates Christians.’

While I would LIKE to see our country retain the values that we had that made is a great people, it's obvious that many, many people would much prefer what they believe is a kindly tyrant, but tyrant nonetheless.

It’s not a matter of retaining values, it’s realizing those values at last; during the last 60 years or so we’ve moved from a racist, segregated Nation of hate and discrimination to a Nation of laws, equality, and justice.

Are things ‘perfect’ now? No, not by a long shot. But we continue to make progress in the effort to bring the Nation to where the Framers intended, the only obstacle is the social right and religious fundamentalists. Fortunately the Constitution and the law is not on their side. And their departure can not occur too soon.

Whether you agree with liberalism or conservatisim the one inescapable fact is we no longer have shared values.

Incorrect. We share the values of the law, equality and justice. The problem is those who seek to find only division.

There aren't laws PREVENTING homos from getting married. There just aren't laws that RECOGNIZE homo marriages.

You exhibit your hate and ignorance in just two sentences. Well done.

It’s such hate and ignorance that’s anathema to the Framers original intent.

Everyone has the right to access a given state’s laws, including marriage laws, regardless of one’s sexual orientation. ‘A State cannot so deem a class of persons a stranger to its laws.’ Romer, Governor of Colorado, et al. v. Evans et al., 517 U.S. 620 (1996). To do so violates the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Gay marriage being legal isn't forcing you to have a gay marriage or even approve of it.

Marijuana being legal isn't forcing you to use it or approve of others who use it.

You either side with freedom on these issues, or you don't. Me I side with freedom as often as possible, whether they're freedoms I choose to exercise or not. I don't own a gun, can't hit the broadside of a barn, but having gun rights in the United States is incredibly important to me.

When you say killing is "freedom," then you lose all credibility. It isn't "liberty" to pull the arms and legs off of others.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I don't see gays as loonies. I see the lunacy in accepting same sex relationships as normal and rejecting their aberration. In THIS context. For purposes of THIS discussion. It is a distraction. There are too many fault lines for the nation to survive. It will crack along these lines and collapse whether or not any individual accepts or rejects the concept of homosexual relationships.

If someone looks at it realistically instead of wanting to impose their morality on others, it's obvious that the divisions have reached a point where compromise is impossible. If you want specifics and use same sex marriage, do it. There is no point on which there can be compromise on the issue of same sex marriage. It is a fracture that cannot be overcome.

That's the issue.

So, it's lack of tolerance, a stubborn need to oppress and a willingness to divide rather than accomodate.

Where do I sign up? Sounds like a great way to conduct a society (for some)!

The whole business of forcing illegal marriages down our throats isn't about providing "rights" to gays...they already have the same rights as everybody else.

It's about controlling the clergy. That's what it always comes down to with progressives. Control of the majority by an extremist minority.

Your civil and religious liberties are not being violated by universal marriage. To say that is an outright lie.

 

[Katzndogz]

Yeah, kind of like when civil rights was forced upon the majority as well. Amazing that the country hasn't been torn apart yet because black people get to use the same bathrooms as white people. The insanity and delusions of the extreme right wing are on full display in this thread.....you people need help.

Civil rights being the first fracture, became so toxic and draconian that we haven't yet seen the end of it. What we see today as black rage was gestated in the era of civil rights. The welfare state, black illegitmacy, affirmative action, quotas, anger on all sides, resentment on all sides got their start out of the civil rights movement. It was damage started in the civil rights movement that Mayor Nutter is fighting in Philadelphia today.

Not that all that civil rights equality helped. We have close to the same segregation, instead of no colored, it's no whites allowed, in the black student lounges, black faculty rooms, black organizations for every profession, career and organization in the entire nation. Black housing, black neighborhoods, the Congressional black caucus! The Race Card. Segregation that was undreamed of even in the days of jim crow! Jim crow laws were pretty much confined to isolated pockets in the south. Today's segregation is nationwide, in every city, town, hamlet and wide place in the road.

Civil rights was well intentioned with certainly noble ideals. It was just wrongly imposed and created a monster of major proportions. Even after it became obvious that civil rights had gone into the gutter there's no way to fix it. It has become one of those fault lines waiting for the quake.

 

[koshergrl]

How funny, and ironic!

If forcing clergy to perform gay marriages isn't violating religious liberty, I don't know what is.

Surely you remember when the progressive scum tried to subject the clergy to non-discriminatory hiring practices? It was just a few days ago....

 

[bodecea]

the world trends long term in the liberal direction.

It always has

Not being a homophobe and being pro-choice doesn't mean you're ok with big debt, big gov't, big deficits and big taxes.





I'm a straight man for gay marriage, pro-choice, and our huge fiscally liberal gov't sickens me.

There are many reasons not to support the country. What the reason IS, is far less important than the existence of many reasons. The people are divided, they do not support the values or goals of one another. This means the country is weak and will eventually have no choice but to collapse or be overtaken by another stronger ideal.

So, you don't support our country.

 

[Katzndogz]

If the founders had intended same sex marriage they would have made that abundantly clear at the outset. When in fact from their writings, what they made clear was a reliance on the Creator and an absolute morality according to their Christian philosophy.

What they did know was that the Constitution and the country would eventually end when the citizens became so amoral and lacking in belief the nation would no longer survive. Today is that day. It might take another 100 years of war, strife and deprivation but it starts now.

 

[emilynghiem]

18 to 29 year olds almost always lose their faith. Always have.
It doesn't mean that Christianity is going away.
The majority turns around when they get older.

Really. Then there should be data which shows this trend. Feel free to post it.

I don't think age matters so much as the "staqes" people go through.

If you look up any system for explaining the spiritual growth process, whether
* 12 step recovery
* 5 stages of grief
* 17 steps of forgiveness
* fowler's stages of faith development
etc.

people will move from one place to another on the spectrum of
denial/projection to acceptance/forgiveness
depending on where they are in life

no two people's paths/seasons/cycles of timing
are the same, and that's why we cannot judge
ourselves or others by "comparing" or we stir up self-induced misery!

the most we can do is try to support one another
in whatever stages we find ourselves interacting
and try to learn and share as much as possible
in a constructive manner that benefits the parties equally.

all humanity is going through this

it's ironic that we have free speech over the internet
as such a powerful tool for sharing and consolidating thoughts and ideas

yet it can make such huge messes when too many people are seemingly thrown together,
all coming from different backgrounds and different places in life,
without better instructions on how to distinguish and organize
and COMMUNICATE with each other,
so we can better respect each other's boundaries and process
(instead of imposing on or stepping all over each other
trying to make sense of what is going on.)

It is human nature to try to judge people based on our past experiences and perceptions,
but it is also human nature to learn where this works or fails to resolve conflicts,
and by trial and error, seeking more constructive means of relating in the future.

 

[Uncensored2008]

So, you don't support our country.

Whosoever shall be guilty of Rape, Polygamy, or Sodomy with man or woman shall be punished, if a man, by castration, if a woman, by cutting thro' the cartilage of her nose a hole of one half inch diameter at the least. - Thomas Jefferson

 

[JakeStarkey]

This is a cause that you have already lost, koshergirl. This is over.

 

[JakeStarkey]

How funny, and ironic!

If forcing clergy to perform gay marriages isn't violating religious liberty, I don't know what is.

Surely you remember when the progressive scum tried to subject the clergy to non-discriminatory hiring practices? It was just a few days ago....

And the court (conservatives, centrists, and liberals) all voted to protect religious freedom on non-discriminatory hiring practices: 9 to zip.

SCOTUS will protect us from you far right evangelicals by the same margin: 9 to zip.

Nobody was government telling organized religion what to do, nobody wants the religious wacks telling the rest of the county what to do.

 

[Katzndogz]

This is actually one we will all lose. The sooner the better.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

If forcing clergy to perform gay marriages isn't violating religious liberty, I don't know what is.

And yet again you exhibit your ignorance.

The Equal Protection Clause applies only to the public sector and secular laws, not private religious organizations. No member of the clergy will be forced to do anything.

Surely you remember when the progressive scum tried to subject the clergy to non-discriminatory hiring practices? It was just a few days ago....

No, and clearly neither do you.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Clergy will not be forced to perform marriages by the government, ever, without changing the 1st Amendment.

 

[Uncensored2008]

And yet again you exhibit your ignorance.

The Equal Protection Clause applies only to the public sector and secular laws, not private religious organizations. No member of the clergy will be forced to do anything.


No, and clearly neither do you.

Yeah, bullshit again.

You are an authoritarian thug, and this is used as a club to beat Christians with, just as you thugs had planned.

Vermont Inn Sued Over Refusal to Host Gay Couple's Wedding - ABC News

 

[Katzndogz]

Even though it is obviously discrimination?

Hopefully by then the US will be in it's cultural and political grave.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Sheesh, Uncensored. An inn is not a clergyman. Take the nonsense elsewhere if you can make a point.