The End of Liberalism....

[The T]

My fear about Obama is that he, like other narcissistic socialists (Hitler, Mao, Stalin) would rather pull the world down around his ears than admit defeat.

Oh boy. Here comes the psycho-babble.

Every politician has traits of narcissism to them, or they wouldn't be politicians. That's how "personality" works.

It's not "personality disorder" until it impairs their daily lives.

Then it's time to stop electing Politicians and replace them with Statesmen, isn't it?

 

[geauxtohell]

My fear about Obama is that he, like other narcissistic socialists (Hitler, Mao, Stalin) would rather pull the world down around his ears than admit defeat.

Oh boy. Here comes the psycho-babble.

Every politician has traits of narcissism to them, or they wouldn't be politicians. That's how "personality" works.

It's not "personality disorder" until it impairs their daily lives.

Then it's time to stop electing Politicians and replace them with Statesmen, isn't it?

You think there is a difference?

Again. How cute.

 

[The T]

However? Liberalism as known today bears NO resemblence of it's creator here in America...Jefferson, but Modern Day Liberalism reflects that of Marx, Alinsky, and other Leftist Boobs.

Jefferson was no boob, but would be a Conservative in today's parlence.

Wingnuts who think that TJ was a liberal agree with Terrell when he says TJ was a conservative

No doubt.​

Jefferson was too-much the Renaissance Man (risk-taker/inventor/thinker; like the REST-of-us ARIES

), to be considered a "conservative". ​

Totally went over your head as usual. Is your mommy demanding her computer back yet?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Today's Liberals are not Socialists/Progressives and today's Socialists/Progressives are not Liberals. Most people still think they're the same thing but they're not. Socialists/Progressives do not care about individual Freedom & Liberty. It's all about the State for them. A true Liberal would not subscribe to that philosophy. Liberalism is alive,and that's not a bad thing. Libertarians and real Conservatives are who will save the Republican Party in the end. There is no hope for the Democratic Party though. Their Socialists/Progressives have plunged them into Goose Stepping madness.

Gee.....where would you be....without your Absolutes.

​

 

[The T]

Oh boy. Here comes the psycho-babble.

Every politician has traits of narcissism to them, or they wouldn't be politicians. That's how "personality" works.

It's not "personality disorder" until it impairs their daily lives.

Then it's time to stop electing Politicians and replace them with Statesmen, isn't it?

You think there is a difference?

Again. How cute.

Yes I do. And thank you.

It's a matter of honor...

*Idiot*

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Besides yourself, who has suggested "cutting social security"?

Are you taking the position that preserving Social Security is now a mainstream conservative point of view?

See? That's the point I just made.

Social Security was a promise made to millions of senior citizens who planned their lives around it. That needs to be preserved.

But it's insolvent.

Bullshit

S.S. is solvent for the next-37-years....no matter how-many times you lie; otherwise.

​

 

[boedicca]

If you actually bothered to read the SS Annual Report, you'd see (well, maybe not you, but an intelligent person would) that SS is expected to decline into insolvency in 2014.

Paying benefits will require redeeming funds from the Fake Trust Fund, which is stuffed with IOUs that current and future taxpayers will have to pay off with higher taxes.

The Ponzi Scheme is tumbing down.


Social Security expenditures are expected to exceed tax receipts this year
for the first time since 1983. The projected deficit of $41 billion this year
(excluding interest income) is attributable to the recession and to an
expected $25 billion downward adjustment to 2010 income that corrects
for excess payroll tax revenue credited to the trust funds in earlier years.
This deficit is expected to shrink substantially for 2011 and to return to
small surpluses for years 2012-2014 due to the improving economy. After
2014 deficits are expected to grow rapidly as the baby boom generation’s
retirement causes the number of beneficiaries to grow substantially more
rapidly than the number of covered workers. The annual deficits will be
made up by redeeming trust fund assets in amounts less than interest
earnings through 2024, and then by redeeming trust fund assets until
reserves are exhausted in 2037, at which point tax income would be sufficient
to pay about 75 percent of scheduled benefits through 2084.

Actuarial Publications

 

[JakeStarkey]

Conservatism was the hallmark of many of the anti-rats of the Constitutional era, and the political philosophy is nothing new to American history and political philosophy.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Are you taking the position that preserving Social Security is now a mainstream conservative point of view?

See? That's the point I just made.

Social Security was a promise made to millions of senior citizens who planned their lives around it. That needs to be preserved.

But it's insolvent.

In wingnut world "having a surplus of hundreds of billions a year" means "insolvent"

How odd "conservatives" always manage to forget posting any supporting-proof/facts, with their bullshit-Absolutes. ​

 

[geauxtohell]

Yes I do. And thank you.

It's a matter of honor...

*Idiot*

Also cute: how easy it is to agitate you.

Were you a mal-adjusted youth or something?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Most of today's conservatives would be seen as liberals a hundred years ago, owing to the simple fact of all the battles liberals have won over the history of this country.

Liberal victories became the basis of beliefs, principles, and practices of the mainstream.

You don't see mainstream conservatives today fighting to resegregate the South do you?

Why, because desegregation was a battle that conservatives LOST, and now, that once-liberal position is embraced by almost all of the right, barring a few extremists.

Bottomline, over time, conservatives have become more and more liberal, because liberalism wins again and again and again and again. A decade or two or a few from now, gays in the military won't be opposed by mainstream conservatism. What you think is a liberal position now will be in the mainstream conservatism belief system and will be dead as an issue.

​

 

[Toro]

I saw Newt Gingrich on Meet the Press a few weeks back saying that there is no way we should be cutting social security, which stunned me.

So, when a standard bearer of the Right is defending SS as sacrosanct, "the death of liberalism" is greatly exaggerated.

(Though I'm sure some conservatard would call Newt a "RINO.")

Besides yourself, who has suggested "cutting social security"?

The Deficit Reduction Committee did.

Which is why it surprised me. The Committee gives cover to Republicans (and Democrats) to do unpopular things, as well as to cutting SS that many Republicans want to do anyways.

 

[Revere]

I saw Newt Gingrich on Meet the Press a few weeks back saying that there is no way we should be cutting social security, which stunned me.

So, when a standard bearer of the Right is defending SS as sacrosanct, "the death of liberalism" is greatly exaggerated.

(Though I'm sure some conservatard would call Newt a "RINO.")

Besides yourself, who has suggested "cutting social security"?

The Deficit Reduction Committee did.

Which is why it surprised me. The Committee gives cover to Republicans (and Democrats) to do unpopular things, as well as to cutting SS that many Republicans want to do anyways.

They could not agree on what to do.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Social Security was a promise made to millions of senior citizens who planned their lives around it. That needs to be preserved.

But it's insolvent.

In wingnut world "having a surplus of hundreds of billions a year" means "insolvent"

The country is $14T in debt. There is no surplus.

As usual.....you're full-o'-shit.......


​

 

[Toro]

Most of today's conservatives would be seen as liberals a hundred years ago, owing to the simple fact of all the battles liberals have won over the history of this country.

Liberal victories became the basis of beliefs, principles, and practices of the mainstream.

You don't see mainstream conservatives today fighting to resegregate the South do you?

Why, because desegregation was a battle that conservatives LOST, and now, that once-liberal position is embraced by almost all of the right, barring a few extremists.

Bottomline, over time, conservatives have become more and more liberal, because liberalism wins again and again and again and again. A decade or two or a few from now, gays in the military won't be opposed by mainstream conservatism. What you think is a liberal position now will be in the mainstream conservatism belief system and will be dead as an issue.

I'm going to reference Newt Gingrich for the second time in this thread -

I saw Gingrich speak many years ago about the mistakes both conservatives and liberals have made over the years. Newt said that one of the mistakes conservatives made was defending segregation, and conservatives should acknowledge that they were wrong.

It's interesting because some conservatives argue that conservatives didn't support segregation, "Democrats" did.

 

[sangha]

If you actually bothered to read the SS Annual Report, you'd see (well, maybe not you, but an intelligent person would) that SS is expected to decline into insolvency in 2014.

Paying benefits will require redeeming funds from the Fake Trust Fund, which is stuffed with IOUs that current and future taxpayers will have to pay off with higher taxes.

The Ponzi Scheme is tumbing down.


Social Security expenditures are expected to exceed tax receipts this year
for the first time since 1983. The projected deficit of $41 billion this year
(excluding interest income) is attributable to the recession and to an
expected $25 billion downward adjustment to 2010 income that corrects
for excess payroll tax revenue credited to the trust funds in earlier years.
This deficit is expected to shrink substantially for 2011 and to return to
small surpluses for years 2012-2014 due to the improving economy. After
2014 deficits are expected to grow rapidly as the baby boom generation’s
retirement causes the number of beneficiaries to grow substantially more
rapidly than the number of covered workers. The annual deficits will be
made up by redeeming trust fund assets in amounts less than interest
earnings through 2024, and then by redeeming trust fund assets until
reserves are exhausted in 2037, at which point tax income would be sufficient
to pay about 75 percent of scheduled benefits through 2084.

Actuarial Publications

Umm, those "fake" trust fund assets are worth real money.

 

[Toro]

Besides yourself, who has suggested "cutting social security"?

The Deficit Reduction Committee did.

Which is why it surprised me. The Committee gives cover to Republicans (and Democrats) to do unpopular things, as well as to cutting SS that many Republicans want to do anyways.

They could not agree on what to do.

This was in response to the preliminary report before the final report was released and voted on.

 

[sangha]

Besides yourself, who has suggested "cutting social security"?

The Deficit Reduction Committee did.

Which is why it surprised me. The Committee gives cover to Republicans (and Democrats) to do unpopular things, as well as to cutting SS that many Republicans want to do anyways.

They could not agree on what to do.

A super majority of them agreed

 

[Rinata]

Emmett Tyrell, Jr?? Oh, brother.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

1. "…there has been a slow but steady decline of which liberals have been steadfastly oblivious. The heirs of the New Deal are down to around 20% of the electorate, according to recent Gallup polls. Conservatives account for 42% of the vote, and in the recent election the independents, the second most numerous group at 29% of the electorate, broke the conservatives' way. They were alarmed by the deficit.

2. Liberalism's decline might appear, at first glance, to have begun with the 1961 inauguration of President John F. Kennedy—when historians noted the first glimmerings of what was to become liberalism's distinctive trait, overreach. On the domestic side, the oratory set in motion President Lyndon Johnson's catastrophic War on Poverty.

a. JFK's stirring language represented a break with the Burkean understanding of President Dwight Eisenhower. Ike, whether he articulated it or not, wanted to put the Great Depression and the dangerous confrontations of the early Cold War period behind us. He wanted to return to normalcy.

3. Still, in tracing liberalism's decline, one cannot ignore an earlier event: the civil war that broke out in the aftermath of World War II. The conflict pitted what we might call the radicals led by Henry Wallace against the advocates of what Arthur M. Schlesinger Jr. would call in his book, "The Vital Center," more practical liberals like Hubert Humphrey, Joseph L. Rauh and Walter Reuther. They were hard-headed and patriotic, and their desiderata were reasonable by comparison with the radicals' utopian ideas about the Soviet Union.

4. The practical liberals won in the late 1940s, but in 1972 civil war broke out anew. This time the radicals won. In the meantime, LBJ's Great Society caused even some liberals to warn against the "unintended consequences" of government programs. These were to be the first new recruits to modern conservatism. Jeane Kirkpatrick, Irving Kristol and, for a time, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, were in Kristol's words liberals "who were mugged by reality."

5. Conservatives have had Edmund Burke and the Founding Fathers as their cynosures. Sometimes they have provided discipline; sometimes conservatives have followed their own star. The problem for liberals is they have been denied a cynosure. Some had looked to the British Fabian Socialists and some to Karl Marx, but since the late 1940s liberals became coy about their intellectual mentors.

6. Conservatism has steadily spread through the country since its larval days in the 1950s, and the reason is that the vast majority of Americans favor free enterprise and personal liberty. Note the tea party movement. The Republicans just took the House of Representatives by over 60 seats and gained six seats in the Senate. The social democrat in the White House has been routed.

7. Over the past two years the Democrats showed their true colors. Faced with an entitlement crisis, they rang up trillion dollar deficits. We now face an entitlement crisis and a budget crisis—and liberals have no answer for it beyond tax and spend. They still have support in the media, but even here they are faced with opposition from Fox News, talk radio and the Internet.

a. As a political movement liberalism is dead. They do not have the numbers. They do not have the policies. They have 23 seats in the Senate to defend in 2012 (against the Republicans' 10) and Republican control of state houses and legislatures will give them even more seats in the future. Liberalism R.I.P. "

R. Emmett Tyrell Jr.: Liberalism—An Autopsy - WSJ.com
(emphasis mine)

gays are out and about everywhere!

they even have their own shows on tv

they are in the military, in business, in politics

they have spousal benefits all over the country and in some places they are allowed to marry....

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women and blacks are on a more equal footing with white men in just about every arena in America; business, politics, religion, the military...


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blacks and whites marry and nobody cares anymore

everyone has sex outside of marriage

lots of successful women have children sans husbands BY CHOICE

divorce is EASY to get

millions of couples live together without bothering to marry

most people are waiting LONGER before getting married

people are re-thinking outrageous and draconian pot laws

-------------------


these are ALL issues that riled conservatives 10-20 years ago...

yet
today
cons have become SO LIBERAL that they don't care about most of those issues


the measure of how liberal or conservative a nation is is best judged by how people actually live...

and MOST people are a lot more LIBERAL in their social beliefs today than they were 20-30 years ago

Sex...Sex....Sex....the basis for most liberal "great" social beliefs.....isn't it time for liberals to finally grow up.....?

So what is the great "measure" of our "socially liberal" nation.......? You think we as a nation have "progressed"....? Many think it has steadily become a pornographic, socially dysfunctional, sick and dying nation....due to liberal beliefs...

Gays....destroying the true meaning of marriage....disintegrating the military.....flaunting perversion and spreading disease....

Womens' equality.....superficially improved but now women in addition to raising a family have to work a full time job alongside their husbands in order for them to support the family....buy a house....the family unit and the children suffer in a multitude of ways....

Racial equality.....superficially improved but even today our own President exhibits racial undertones.......black poverty....black crime....blacks today are still far behind....liberalism hasn't really done them jackshit....

Divorce is easy.....this is an "accomplishment"...?

Millions living together without bothering to get married....this is an "accomplishment"...?

Women having children sans husbands....this is an "accomplishment"...?

People pushing for easy pot laws....this is an "accomplishment".....?

I see most liberal social "accomplishments" a total flop....since for the most part they just undermine family and responsibility...