The Economy - Round Two

[Foxfyre]

You didn't post the most as an option the thing that is most likely to happen and the thing that was most likely to happen no matter who won the election. Where is "the economy will improve but it will be a slow recovery"?

I second this.


I believe that Obama's policies are going to be a disaster BUT the economy is still going to slowly improve. It is just the way things work. We are not close enough to the edge for the disaster to take effect and we are not going to see that for many years to come.

I didn't include Romney proposals in the poll options because those are now moot and we'll never know if they would have produced the promised effect or whether they would have been as disastrous as Obama's last four years. We don't know if he could have acheived the bipartisan cooperation he thought he could achieve to get some good things accomplished. We do have a lot of previous history to use in evaluation of what has worked in the past and what hasn't and discussions about that is fair game. Every president that has ever held office has enjoyed some success and every president has had some failures and/or disappointments.

We do have four years of recent history of what Obama's policies have or have not accomplished, and the poll is focused at what another four years of the presumably same policies will likely produce.

 

[Wiseacre]

You didn't post the most as an option the thing that is most likely to happen and the thing that was most likely to happen no matter who won the election. Where is "the economy will improve but it will be a slow recovery"?

I second this.


I believe that Obama's policies are going to be a disaster BUT the economy is still going to slowly improve. It is just the way things work. We are not close enough to the edge for the disaster to take effect and we are not going to see that for many years to come.

I ain't so sure, we could be looking at a recession in 2013 if the pols don't come up with an acceptable resolution to the fiscal cliff.

 

[Foxfyre]

You didn't post the most as an option the thing that is most likely to happen and the thing that was most likely to happen no matter who won the election. Where is "the economy will improve but it will be a slow recovery"?

I second this.


I believe that Obama's policies are going to be a disaster BUT the economy is still going to slowly improve. It is just the way things work. We are not close enough to the edge for the disaster to take effect and we are not going to see that for many years to come.

I ain't so sure, we could be looking at a recession in 2013 if the pols don't come up with an acceptable resolution to the fiscal cliff.

This is so true--we may get the recession anyway if the current layoffs and stock market preformance is any indication--and this time most companies are much leaner and have less cushion to withstand a recession. It will indeed help if the President and Congress can come up with at least a stopgap measure that doesn't make things worse.

And a great many Americans think we are still in recession.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Okay, half the country got its way…

Well, that’s certainly an indication you and others on the right are ready to put country first…

Perhaps absent the fear of a re-elected Obama, Congressional republicans would be willing to now address jobs and the economy, and putting people back to work.

Once unemployment decreases and more Americans are on payrolls (and paying payroll taxes), it would then become feasible and realistic to address the deficit and entitlements.

The opportunity for any of the conservative agenda to be implemented now moot for at least two more years…

More like four years, regardless who controls the Senate; however unlikely, a GOP takeover in 2014 would be marginal at best.

And what exactly is the ‘conservative agenda’?

Judging from the last 2 years, the ‘conservative agenda’ consists of one item:

Do Nothing.

 

[Foxfyre]

Okay, half the country got its way…

Well, that’s certainly an indication you and others on the right are ready to put country first…

Perhaps absent the fear of a re-elected Obama, Congressional republicans would be willing to now address jobs and the economy, and putting people back to work.

Once unemployment decreases and more Americans are on payrolls (and paying payroll taxes), it would then become feasible and realistic to address the deficit and entitlements.

The opportunity for any of the conservative agenda to be implemented now moot for at least two more years…

More like four years, regardless who controls the Senate; however unlikely, a GOP takeover in 2014 would be marginal at best.

And what exactly is the ‘conservative agenda’?

Judging from the last 2 years, the ‘conservative agenda’ consists of one item:

Do Nothing.

In this conservative's point of view, doing nothing is far superior to doing the wrong thing. When you put out a fire, what do you replace it with?

The House Democrats have now sent three budgets to the Senate that have not been allowed out of committee to even debate, much less brought to a vote. And the House has also sent 16 jobs bills to the Senate that have never been debated, much less brought to a vote. So if your idea of 'doing nothing' means doing what Obama and Senate wants and getting nothing of what conservatives want, then I'm for doing nothing.

I do not expect those in the House to do what they have pledged not to do and what those who elected them do not want them to do.

I do want the President and Congress to support and pass legislation that will put people back to work in the private sector. I do not want more and more government jobs or jobs dependent on government contracts as that will only magnify the problem that we already have. I do not want more government spending and regulation that is draining the lifeblood out of the economy.

 

[chikenwing]

Okay, half the country got its way…

Well, that’s certainly an indication you and others on the right are ready to put country first…

Perhaps absent the fear of a re-elected Obama, Congressional republicans would be willing to now address jobs and the economy, and putting people back to work.

Once unemployment decreases and more Americans are on payrolls (and paying payroll taxes), it would then become feasible and realistic to address the deficit and entitlements.

The opportunity for any of the conservative agenda to be implemented now moot for at least two more years…

More like four years, regardless who controls the Senate; however unlikely, a GOP takeover in 2014 would be marginal at best.

And what exactly is the ‘conservative agenda’?

Judging from the last 2 years, the ‘conservative agenda’ consists of one item:

Do Nothing.

Like a broken freaking recorder player skipping back over just the static and noise at the very end. The same crowd crows about how marginalized the Rebubs are ,but blame them for everything,while ignoring the dysfunctional senate. Its ether the Dems are incompetent to the point a marginalized group can ruin thier plans,or the Rebups have near the same clout. They control 2/3 of the gov and more for a long time yet here we are still bumping on tire's so thred bear any good bump and its flat city

 

[Foxfyre]

So how are you guys invested in the market handling that? We quickly dumped any bonds tied to interest rates and checked to be sure we weren't invested in any coal or other energy production. Apparently gasoline production, fast food, and health care are good bets right now though.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Okay, half the country got its way and we will have four more years of an Obama Administration and at least two more years of a Senate controlled by his party. The opportunity for any of the conservative agenda to be implemented now moot for at least two more years, and we will live with what we have for the interim.

Today I'm looking at a long list of businesses who already have or are in the process of laying off people. Many waited until after the election to do this at the request of the Administration. And I'm looking at reports of thousands of small businesses who have shelved plans to expand and hire or get back into the game and/or who are paring back enough people to get under the threshhold at which they would be subject to Obamacare penalties. The market has not been happy since the election so far. Is all of this the way it will be for the next four years, or is this a temporary glitch and will soon pass?

No doubt many who voted to keep Obama in power expect things to now get better and/or think all is well.

This thread is dedicated to a discussion of economic matters, what is happening, what needs to happen, and our best hopes and fears.

The poll is to express our expectations in the immediate post-election environment. Four years from now, it could be interesting how accurate we were in our projections.

Of course some of us will have criticisms and complaints about policy and actions, and others will have defense for the same, but if we could keep a reasonable level of civility it would be much appreciated.

Did you know like Romney in the 2012 Presidential Loser Election, when America stayed Blue, the Good Ship Wingnut has taken hold of the economic argument that is a loser for them? Yep, they ran out of ammo and have now resorted to plastic mallets and water pistols.

Oh yeah, they have talking points now...taxing the Super Wealthy will not settle the debt (not that anyone actually says it will) and other imbecilic straw man arguments




the right wingers in steerage on the Good Ship Wingnut have at last eight threads on the fiscal situation all saying the same things

just get ONE opinion to represent the Wingnut Nation folks @ USMB and save bandwidth and sanity

 

[Rozman]

Obama has more then half the country on his side, Ms. Foxfyre.

Maybe a you know what hair more then 50% of the country...
Let's be fair here if we can.Maybe to be generous very little more then half...
Not this huge part of the country you guys are putting out there.

There is no mandate for all these tax increases you guys are getting moist in the pants
about.

 

[Wiseacre]

Obama has more then half the country on his side, Ms. Foxfyre.

Maybe a you know what hair more then 50% of the country...
Let's be fair here if we can.Maybe to be generous very little more then half...
Not this huge part of the country you guys are putting out there.

There is no mandate for all these tax increases you guys are getting moist in the pants
about.

Obama got a hair more than half of the voters. Might be a tad presumptious to assume he has more than half of the entire country on his side, I might advance the notion that a whole lot of people didn't think either candidate was worth a shit. Or that Romney was a bit more undesireable than Obama, don't know as I'd assume those people are on his side either.

 

[Foxfyre]

Obama has more then half the country on his side, Ms. Foxfyre.

Maybe a you know what hair more then 50% of the country...
Let's be fair here if we can.Maybe to be generous very little more then half...
Not this huge part of the country you guys are putting out there.

There is no mandate for all these tax increases you guys are getting moist in the pants
about.

Obama got a hair more than half of the voters. Might be a tad presumptious to assume he has more than half of the entire country on his side, I might advance the notion that a whole lot of people didn't think either candidate was worth a shit. Or that Romney was a bit more undesireable than Obama, don't know as I'd assume those people are on his side either.

Yes Obama got 50.5% of the vote in 2012 which was quite a bit less than he got in 2008 and a lot fewer folks voted for him this time than last time. I am not suggesting that he did not win the election.

But poll after poll after poll still shows that a majority of Americans beleive we are still in recession, that the country is on the wrong track, that their houses are worth less, that inflation is more than the government admits, that the gtovernment spends too much, and that their prospects and those oif their children are less bright now than they were four years ago.

So how did Obama get re-elected with a track record like that? In my opinion it is because more than 50% of Americans now receive some or all of their income directly from or through contracts dependent on the federal government and/or expect or get free stuff, and even though a lot of them don't think Obama has done a great job, too many aren't willing to risk that money and free stuff.

 

[Mac1958]

.

There are many signs that the economy is finding its legs after the horrific shock the system took. Real estate has stabilized and we're actually seeing home prices increasing and inventories shrinking in some areas, consumer confidence is improving, there are some other signs.

The question is whether all the quantitative easing will function similarly to chemotherapy, where the cure for a terrible disease turns out to be worse than the disease itself. And anyone who tells you they know one way or the other is lying to either you or themselves. Or both.

The Fed thinks it can reverse the strategies that would cause hyperinflation (which would involve significant bank reserve requirement increases, a short-term spike in interest rates, among other things) before the hyperinflation is set in stone. Don't know. We'll see.

I think a bigger threat right now is the Middle East, Iran & Israel, personally. Our economy is still too brittle to absorb a huge spike in oil prices and big international conflict.

.

 

[Foxfyre]

.

There are many signs that the economy is finding its legs after the horrific shock the system took. Real estate has stabilized and we're actually seeing home prices increasing and inventories shrinking in some areas, consumer confidence is improving, there are some other signs.

The question is whether all the quantitative easing will function similarly to chemotherapy, where the cure for a terrible disease turns out to be worse than the disease itself. And anyone who tells you they know one way or the other is lying to either you or themselves. Or both.

The Fed thinks it can reverse the strategies that would cause hyperinflation (which would involve significant bank reserve requirement increases, a short-term spike in interest rates, among other things) before the hyperinflation is set in stone. Don't know. We'll see.

I think a bigger threat right now is the Middle East, Iran & Israel, personally. Our economy is still too brittle to absorb a huge spike in oil prices and big international conflict.

.

Well we gave up any chance at moving toward greater energy indpendence, at least in the near term, when we re-elected Obama for four more years, and most experts I've read or listened to lately expect high energy costs to continue and become the new normal for now. The experts are advising us to dump all our energy production stocks and invest in gasoline and fuel oil.

Housing may have stabilized in some areas, but values continue to drop in ours and the last I read, at least 1 in 4 Americans believe their home is worth less than it was worth when they bought it. That is not true in my case, but our home is worth a whole bunch less now than it was worth four years ago, and I know a lot of folks who are still underwater on their home mortgages.