The Economy is in Trouble - What do we do to fix this? Ideas Welcome -

...What if the government changed the tax code for corporations, making non-executive payroll the only legal deduction? Would that create a job or two?...
Excellent example, thanks!

The president announces he will fight for jobs for the 'little guy' by raising taxes on pay for rich fat cat managers. What happens is companies no longer can afford the best managers and end up hiring less capable ones. Companies are then not run as well, production falls, and companies are forced to downsize or fold or move overseas. This is what happens with a government led by those who feel they're not elected to represent rich fat cats.

...Would government get the 'creation' credit? Would they deserve it?...
The government has been blaming the increased unemployment on the previous administration that presided over low unemployment.
...step one is to give a shit about the American worker.
--and that's exactly what the American worker's getting.
 
What can Americans do? Not all that much, really. They could start out by not hating their neighbors. They could stop blaming the various victim classes (their neighbors)...
Now that is a refreshing start; thanks!

How about instead of deciding we can't do much else and blaming those we voted for, a better course might be to first decide what we want, and second make it happen. I like unemployed people working and hungry people eating. What we can do together to make it happen is remove barriers we've collectively put in the way of wealth creation. As individuals we can work with what we have and be happy.

There was a time when a guy who lost his job could open up a bar in his barn...

Anyone out there live in a state that would allow that to happen without the blessing of 3 well paid attorneys and 7 city/county officials in the market place of today?

Not exactly your daddy's 'land of the free' anymore, eh?
 
What everyone seems to forget is that business runs in a cycle, it expands, peaks, contracts, and recovers. This has been going on since day one. With every major contraction, people proclaim that is the end of the economic cycle, there will be no recovery. The debts is too high. Moral decay has doomed us. High taxes has destroyed the entrepreneurial spirit. The high cost labor has made us noncompetitive. And so it goes, insurmountable problems that we will never recover from. But we always do, time and time again. As business become more and more efficient by cutting cost, pent up demand in the economy and low interest rates, finally convinces business to expand and we're off to the races.

We act as if government was in charge of the economy. Press a button and it expands. Press another and it slows down. But it doesn't work that way. All government can do is offer incentives, tax cuts, increases in the money supply, and interest rate cuts. Serious problems in the economy such as the housing crisis just have to work themselves out over time.
 
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I wanted to say one more little thing - I know I should "lighten up" but there is still a little tinge I feel when someone talks ugly about America - this is something that I don't know if i can be cured of. With every generation that has passed since the revolution it is true that our patriotism has become diluted. It soars when we as a people feel our freedoms and liberties are being threatened. Maybe if Americans realize their way of life is being threatened a surge of "doing the right thing" will occur. I am treating this battle against middle class America like a war from here on out. Americans will pull themselves out of this and it will not be because big business or politician had mercy on them. The American spirit is alive and well in my heart and it is a powerful thing when it spreads.
God Bless America!
( okay - I am ready to take a ribbing for the soap box speech )

America IS ugly.

So's Earth. So's Life. So's Evolution.

Ain't the whole thing BEAUTIFUL?!?

Just look at America. As bitchy and broke as we are, we have 90% of our Muslims, Christians, Jews, Wiccans, Warlocks and Weirdos living, laughing, loving, hurting, healing, fucking and fraternizing productively, side by side, disguised in every shade of pink yellow and brown there is, and doing it in relative peace. Once We, The People learn how to drive this puppy, life on earth is going to ROCK.

:beer: To The Founding Fathers!

I'm still young enough to be long in the stock market and I'm jazzed. One thing not going unnoticed by THIS average Joe is that in spite of the destruction of the last 20 years and despite the growth of the last 60, during THIS political and wealth reorganization, 'civilized' humanity has yet to perform its usual massive tear-down of their infrastructure.

:eusa_think: I do believe Mommas* Little Bastards are going to make it, and I do believe America still has a significant role to play.

To the Stars, Kids!





* Mother Earth
 
This thread is being set up for a PRODUCTIVE discussion on what we can do as American citizens to help our own economy. If we expect Washington to stop the reckless spending then maybe we should also practice what we preach and stop the reckless spending in our own lives. After speaking to a few industry leaders - I am on a quest to find solutions to help recirculate American cash in local communities without changing the average American's lifestyle. I do not pretend to have all the answers and welcome productive banter. I am at the point right now believing that the most effective solution is shopping local and buying more American products until the international trade balances itself out. And yes - I do know that this task of figuring it out and spreading awareness is huge - but isn't that what we are all here for? :razz:
So Shop Local, Buy American = More $$$ and More USA Jobs = More Evenly Spread Taxes because more People with jobs to pay taxes & more businesses to pay taxes = lower deficit - Right?

Reckless spending of our own - well, I guess we can cut up our credit cards. Buy NOTHING on credit and avoid things made in China. But our money is borrowed from a private bank at interest. So we can never have a balanced budget as long as we have the fed. If you want to save America, here are the four steps to do so:

How to save America:
1. End the federal reserve.
2. End the fractional reserve system.
3. Have Congress once again print money interest free and pay off our national debt with the new United States notes and retract Federal Reserve notes.
4. Withdraw the US from all world banks and the United Nations as well as end NAFTA.
 
...We act as if government was in charge of the economy. Press a button and it expands. Press another and it slows down. But it doesn't work that way. All government can do is offer incentives, tax cuts, increases in the money supply, and interest rate cuts...
LOL, people have always blamed/credited the economy with the government. They even did it way back in ancient Egypt when economics was totally controlled by flood levels of the Nile, and that literally made the Pharaoh a kind of god. The word 'pharaoh' meant 'Big House' just like today we call upon the 'White House' to fix unemployment and global warming.

My take is we have a government only for maintaining an environment that lets us make our own economic life. We need government to coin money, military security, courts for public safety and enforcing contracts. I prefer us making our own 'incentives'.
 
...a better course might be to first decide what we want, and second make it happen...
There was a time when a guy who lost his job could open up a bar in his barn... Anyone out there live in a state that would allow that to happen without the blessing of 3 well paid attorneys and 7 city/county officials...
That's not what we want and it's not how things are, but we can't agree on the facts if we're not looking at the same world:
America IS ugly. So's Earth. So's Life. So's Evolution...
People who let themselves fall into that toxic hole and become a burden to others. The rest of us are making a good life better and you're more than welcome to join us when you're interested.
 
...a better course might be to first decide what we want, and second make it happen...
There was a time when a guy who lost his job could open up a bar in his barn... Anyone out there live in a state that would allow that to happen without the blessing of 3 well paid attorneys and 7 city/county officials...
That's not what we want and it's not how things are, but we can't agree on the facts if we're not looking at the same world:
America IS ugly. So's Earth. So's Life. So's Evolution...
People who let themselves fall into that toxic hole and become a burden to others. The rest of us are making a good life better and you're more than welcome to join us when you're interested.

I was trying to be positive but the theme keeps returning to the real fly in the ointment and that is what Americans are REALLY interested in.

Most Americans are not only stupid, short sighted, easily distracted, superficial and naive but the vast majority are not interested in any kind of truth that doesn't give them something for nothing and pat them on the ass and tell them how special they are. We are domed because most of us believe what we WANT to believe. We are doomed because most of us think some invisible guy will accept our apology for our mistakes and everything will be better after we have wasted our miserable lives and the miserable lives of those we deem less fortunate.

We are stupid, and I include myself, thinking that the internet is a portal to an enlightened future when in fact it is a siphon of misguided energy and conviction that amounts to nothing. It is a drop of piss in the ocean...a grain of sand in Death Valley. It is not the bastion of freedom..it is in fact a self imposed prison of freedom. It is the easy way out. Democracy isn't standing on a street corner blathering your own stupid point of view..it is showing up at a political meeting in your town and doing the work of selecting representatives with wisdom and energy to forward the fight. Only those with a psychotic obsession or a desperate need to be noticed do that any more.

We are doomed as individuals because we do not act collectively with intelligent purpose.

We are doomed because the internet user that hates gays has just as much influence as someone with an idea that can save us.
 
...Americans are not only stupid, short sighted, easily distracted, superficial and naive but the vast majority are not interested in any kind of truth that doesn't give them something for nothing and pat them on the ass and tell them how special they are. We are domed because most of us believe what we WANT to believe. We are doomed...
--and yet for hundreds of years these same Americans have lead the world in overcoming tyranny and bringing about the greatest economic, artistic, social, and scientific prosperity that humanity has ever enjoyed. Hey, this thread's for 'What do we do to fix this' so let's stay on topic. Anyone here is free to run off to a different one for 'We're doomed so how can we best wallow in self-pity'.
 
...We act as if government was in charge of the economy. Press a button and it expands. Press another and it slows down. But it doesn't work that way. All government can do is offer incentives, tax cuts, increases in the money supply, and interest rate cuts...
LOL, people have always blamed/credited the economy with the government. They even did it way back in ancient Egypt when economics was totally controlled by flood levels of the Nile, and that literally made the Pharaoh a kind of god. The word 'pharaoh' meant 'Big House' just like today we call upon the 'White House' to fix unemployment and global warming.

My take is we have a government only for maintaining an environment that lets us make our own economic life. We need government to coin money, military security, courts for public safety and enforcing contracts. I prefer us making our own 'incentives'.
I believe our government must intervene in the economy, not because the interventions work that well, but because the public as well as business demands that government do something. If you look at the history of feds manipulations of the money supply and interest rate changes, they have probably been wrong about as often as they have been right. Since there are so many factors affecting the economy and the time required for changes to take effect are at best a guess, there is no good way to measure the effect in terms of jobs and production. Increasing government spending to put more money in the hands of consumers is every bit as unreliable as fed policies.

No doubt fed actions and the increased government spending of the Obama administration has had some positive effects on the economy but was it worth the resulting deficit that the country will have to resolve. I guess economists will be arguing about this forever.
 
America IS ugly. So's Earth. So's Life. So's Evolution...
People who let themselves fall into that toxic hole and become a burden to others. The rest of us are making a good life better and you're more than welcome to join us when you're interested.

Did you read the entire post dude? It's not a toxic hole I describe... I LOVE America and the tolerance it represents. Don't quote the hook and cut the meat... it ain't cool.

I wanted to say one more little thing - I know I should "lighten up" but there is still a little tinge I feel when someone talks ugly about America - this is something that I don't know if i can be cured of. With every generation that has passed since the revolution it is true that our patriotism has become diluted. It soars when we as a people feel our freedoms and liberties are being threatened. Maybe if Americans realize their way of life is being threatened a surge of "doing the right thing" will occur. I am treating this battle against middle class America like a war from here on out. Americans will pull themselves out of this and it will not be because big business or politician had mercy on them. The American spirit is alive and well in my heart and it is a powerful thing when it spreads.
God Bless America!
( okay - I am ready to take a ribbing for the soap box speech )

America IS ugly.

So's Earth. So's Life. So's Evolution.

Ain't the whole thing BEAUTIFUL?!?

Just look at America. As bitchy and broke as we are, we have 90% of our Muslims, Christians, Jews, Wiccans, Warlocks and Weirdos living, laughing, loving, hurting, healing, fucking and fraternizing productively, side by side, disguised in every shade of pink yellow and brown there is, and doing it in relative peace. Once We, The People learn how to drive this puppy, life on earth is going to ROCK.

:beer: To The Founding Fathers!

I'm still young enough to be long in the stock market and I'm jazzed. One thing not going unnoticed by THIS average Joe is that in spite of the destruction of the last 20 years and despite the growth of the last 60, during THIS political and wealth reorganization, 'civilized' humanity has yet to perform its usual massive tear-down of their infrastructure.

:eusa_think: I do believe Mommas* Little Bastards are going to make it, and I do believe America still has a significant role to play.

To the Stars, Kids!





* Mother Earth
 
...We act as if government was in charge of the economy. Press a button and it expands. Press another and it slows down. But it doesn't work that way. All government can do is offer incentives, tax cuts, increases in the money supply, and interest rate cuts...
LOL, people have always blamed/credited the economy with the government. They even did it way back in ancient Egypt when economics was totally controlled by flood levels of the Nile, and that literally made the Pharaoh a kind of god. The word 'pharaoh' meant 'Big House' just like today we call upon the 'White House' to fix unemployment and global warming.

My take is we have a government only for maintaining an environment that lets us make our own economic life. We need government to coin money, military security, courts for public safety and enforcing contracts. I prefer us making our own 'incentives'.
I believe our government must intervene in the economy, not because the interventions work that well, but because the public as well as business demands that government do something. If you look at the history of feds manipulations of the money supply and interest rate changes, they have probably been wrong about as often as they have been right. Since there are so many factors affecting the economy and the time required for changes to take effect are at best a guess, there is no good way to measure the effect in terms of jobs and production. Increasing government spending to put more money in the hands of consumers is every bit as unreliable as fed policies.

No doubt fed actions and the increased government spending of the Obama administration has had some positive effects on the economy but was it worth the resulting deficit that the country will have to resolve. I guess economists will be arguing about this forever.

The government needs to intervene because enough people, when given the choice between considering themselves and considering the public, choose themselves.

Somebody has to say "No, you can't strip mine that valley even if you do have title to the land - it'll fuck things up for the folks down stream."

Once we finish the civil war and get back to being an organization of independent states with a political relationship based on the original vision of the founders, America is going to lead humanity to the stars.

First stop is the moon, according to Huggy.
 
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In the last 48 hours I ran into someone who is storing food and preparing for a "great depression" - they had little faith in the government or their fellow Americans - or the value of an American dollar. I was warned not to waste time on looking for a solution but to start preparing for what is coming sooner than I think. Glen Beck put on a show about it - I missed it but will be checking it out. Is this the action we should be putting our energies into?
I value each and every comment that has been posted - Seeing the issue from differing sides is a wonderful way to weigh the pros and cons.
The economy will not get better if our money continues to leave the country - there has to be even trade - this is something that my mind has not been changed about.
I agree that the internet is not going to be the way to get change for our country - and to find "gems" of information worth reading you do have to get through a lot of spam and crazy people talk. I have not given up yet - tomorrow I will spend the day writing letters and making phone calls to our elected "leaders" and see what kind of response I get. Maybe I can get someone with a louder voice in the public arena to kick start a movement ;-)
Action not words - right?
 
...I believe our government must intervene in the economy, not because the interventions work that well, but because the public as well as business demands that government do something...
--or perhaps change what they're doing. Let's agree that governments and businesses can't exist without each other, and neither should run the other because they've got different and sometimes conflicting priorities.
...If you look at the history of feds manipulations of the money supply and interest rate changes, they have probably been wrong about as often as they have been right...
The Fed is congress' chosen method of fulfilling its constitutional requirement to "coin money and regulate the value thereof". In recent decades the mandate expanded to include full employment. Whether they're "Right" or "Wrong" is a religious question and while I like religion as much as the next guy we need to focus and realize that the Fed's doing a far better job at stable prices and full employment than their predecessor.
 
Doom and Gloom... Conceding doom should mean gloom. If we do not believe the economic disaster will continue till we are too weak to do anything about it and are truly beat down to a whimpering mass of third world morons then we will not have the will to act to mitigate the trend and rise up and above it.

We will not avert the inevitable fall from world grace and mass poverty by nickle and dime-ing our way out of the chasm.

What we DO need is a game changer. What we need is to look at what would work for us as the median income in declining. What will do that is a substantially lower cost of just being an average American.

We need a serious game changer like the discovery of oil as an energy source and the invention of the automobile to make use of it by the common man.

What we need is a new cheap energy source. If we can develop the means to contain the temperatures to fuse HELIUM 3 we are home free. We already know that there is plenty of it on and just below the surface of the moon. One Space Shuttle bay compartment full of that material would power all of the United States energy requirements for a year. The stuff is easy to mine. It is just laying in the sand and dust on the moon's surface.

If all of our energy needs could be lowered to just the cost of maintaining our infrastructure we could still live at our present levels.

Think of it like going to your Walmart for electricity.
 
Doom and Gloom... Conceding doom should mean gloom. If we do not believe the economic disaster will continue till we are too weak to do anything about it and are truly beat down to a whimpering mass of third world morons then we will not have the will to act to mitigate the trend and rise up and above it.

We will not avert the inevitable fall from world grace and mass poverty by nickle and dime-ing our way out of the chasm.

What we DO need is a game changer. What we need is to look at what would work for us as the median income in declining. What will do that is a substantially lower cost of just being an average American.

We need a serious game changer like the discovery of oil as an energy source and the invention of the automobile to make use of it by the common man.

What we need is a new cheap energy source. If we can develop the means to contain the temperatures to fuse HELIUM 3 we are home free. We already know that there is plenty of it on and just below the surface of the moon. One Space Shuttle bay compartment full of that material would power all of the United States energy requirements for a year. The stuff is easy to mine. It is just laying in the sand and dust on the moon's surface.

If all of our energy needs could be lowered to just the cost of maintaining our infrastructure we could still live at our present levels.

Think of it like going to your Walmart for electricity.


I respectfully disagree. Some kind of technological game changer would be great, and I suspect it's going to happen sooner or later. But we have to change our mindset for social and fiscal responsibility. We have to be smarter and more efficient with our money, both personal and public, we waste way too much. We have to change our education and training systems, throwing money at 'em hasn't worked. We've got to do better at resolving issues to everyone's benefit rather than a select few. Until that happens we're just kind of wallowing around in our own shit.
 
This thread is being set up for a PRODUCTIVE discussion on what we can do as American citizens to help our own economy. If we expect Washington to stop the reckless spending then maybe we should also practice what we preach and stop the reckless spending in our own lives. After speaking to a few industry leaders - I am on a quest to find solutions to help recirculate American cash in local communities without changing the average American's lifestyle. I do not pretend to have all the answers and welcome productive banter. I am at the point right now believing that the most effective solution is shopping local and buying more American products until the international trade balances itself out. And yes - I do know that this task of figuring it out and spreading awareness is huge - but isn't that what we are all here for? :razz:
So Shop Local, Buy American = More $$$ and More USA Jobs = More Evenly Spread Taxes because more People with jobs to pay taxes & more businesses to pay taxes = lower deficit - Right?

The first obstacle is ideology. There are those who are capitalists and are all about making a buck for themselves. There is nothing wrong with this thinking. The problem is the results of such thinking, outsourcing of jobs and industry and onesided free trade.

The next obstacle would be government. Our government is run by global companies started here in the US. They want all of the benefits of opperating in the US combined with all of the benefits of lower costs by operating out of the US. It's time they start paying for their benefits.
 
This thread is being set up for a PRODUCTIVE discussion on what we can do as American citizens to help our own economy. If we expect Washington to stop the reckless spending then maybe we should also practice what we preach and stop the reckless spending in our own lives. After speaking to a few industry leaders - I am on a quest to find solutions to help recirculate American cash in local communities without changing the average American's lifestyle. I do not pretend to have all the answers and welcome productive banter. I am at the point right now believing that the most effective solution is shopping local and buying more American products until the international trade balances itself out. And yes - I do know that this task of figuring it out and spreading awareness is huge - but isn't that what we are all here for? :razz:
So Shop Local, Buy American = More $$$ and More USA Jobs = More Evenly Spread Taxes because more People with jobs to pay taxes & more businesses to pay taxes = lower deficit - Right?

you start out on the right track- blaming govt. for spending too much money - then you turn to companies and citizens spending too much = stick to big government ! = citizens and companies spend their own money - not others like govt. duz - i submit to you - that it was no accident that we r 61 trillion dollars in debt ! - it would not b an accident to be just 1 trillion dollars in debt = this communist demokrat party has a vested interest to destroy our economy - they want to re-build amerika into a societ country so they have control - look at komrade obamas friends - he knows every communist in the world = start with ayeres who blew up the pentagon during the nam war - union leaders who were members of the communist SDS during the nam war - today i heard that komrade obama is now going to shut down coal power plants- by way of the (epa) - he has destroyed big oil ! - remember obama told goe the plumber - " i want to spread the wealth around"

that means the money u make duz not belong to you - you some how cheated when u made money and it all belong to the govt. who will pass it out to others==== but do not depend on republicans - they r just useless - only the tea people r capitalists - but i think it is too little too late - i suggest to you that you - BUY FOOD - STORE IT - YOUY ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME !
 
In spite of the doom and gloom that many have fallen swoon to, my business is growing, my income is larger, and my life is better than ever. I am doing my part.

because of this useless republican party - i had to vote for a communist demokrat (obama) for the first time since i came home from nam = we had to keep communist mc cain out of that oval office - that is the only reason we got the tea party - look at the damage we had to do to amerika to get the tea party ! communist mc cain should have been thrown out of the party long ago !

im glad to hear that you r doing well - but no country will survive with a 61 trillion dollar debt =
 

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