The Economics of Immigration Are Not What You Think

When someone breaks into my home, I don't care how much of my food they eat. Whether they eat it all or just an apple, the fact of the matter is that they broke into my house.


Well shit, I shoot to kill and ask questions later of burglars ya know.
 
'The losers are generally the lower-skilled workers who have to compete for jobs with recent immigrants. But studies also show that immigration reform might well take care of most of those effects. Following the 1986 immigration reforms, for example, previously-undocumented immigrants experienced big pay boosts – as much as 15 or 20 percent – and immigrants who already had legal status saw hefty wage gains, too. But the reforms also led to higher wages for lower-skilled native-born Americans. One reason is that undocumented people who gain legal status can move more freely to places with greater demand for their skills, reducing their competition with native-born people with similar skills. More important, their new legal status confers certain protections such as minimum wage and overtime rules. Today, about one-fourth of low-skilled workers in large American cities are paid less than the minimum wage, including 16 percent of native-born workers, 26 percent of legal immigrants, and 38 percent of undocumented workers. Ending the ability of unscrupulous employers to recruit people to work for less than the minimum wage would not only raise the incomes of those currently paid less than the minimum wage. It also would ease downward pressures on the wages of other lower-skilled Americans, which comes from the below-minimum wage workers. This process is something we have refered to as "closing the 'trap-door' under the minimum wage."

This paragraph is the kicker - he talks about the 1986 amnesty. It tells me that he advocates amnesty for the 20M plus illegals in our country. One can't compare that amnesty to what would happen if there was another one. He fails to confront the problems that would arise from such a move. The Reagan fiasco caused more problems for this country than it solved. Another one would cause even greater ones. The rest of this article it seems to me he is referring to those immigrants who have come to the USA LEGALLY. Am I wrong?
 
Do you think the Republican base would ever accept jobs picking produce?

I would think you mean the liberals since they are the ones singing out they are the oppressed "have not's" in need of jobs. That is besides the point. Stop trying to make what I am a right or left thing.

There are poor rights and lefts on welfare lists across this country. And I see neither out there wiling to work for low paying jobs. They feel entitled, they feel the government owes them a living. They don't want to work for a living.


Gunny: Ive got a question for you. Since you say you are in construction in a border town in TX.

Do you ever see poor whites or blacks out there hustling for work like the mexicans? Do you ever see american citizens on welfare looking for a low paying cash job to supplement their welfare?



Your argument doesn't work. For one thing, blacks are a negligible presence in this area, much less construction. To clarify, I did not address Mexicans. I addressed illegal immigrants. I don't care if they're from Mars.

What I DO see is that both your questions are strawmen.

Do we, as a society or via legislation FORCE welfare recipients to work? Ethnicity is irrelevant.

There a plenty of whites in the construction trade here. We do the SKILLED labor. Illegals do the unskilled labor for less than minimum wage. Less than minimum wage is not a legal, low-paying job in the US, last I checked.
 
Immigration is good for a country. There are apparently 12 million illegal immigrants in the USA. Now these people cannot and will not be put out of the country. Solution...have a 12 month moratorium all all deportation, allow illegals to come forward and if they have NO criminal record they should be accepted as landed legal immigrants. It's time to take a "greenfield" approach to this problem because it isnt going away and the USA is getting a bad name all over the world because of the crazy AZ law.
 
The New Policy Institute (NPI) asked me to review all of the available data and economic studies of recent U.S. immigration. With my colleague Jiwon Vellucci, we found, to start, that more than one-third of recent immigrants come from Europe and Asia, while less than 57 percent have come from Mexico and other Latin American nations. The popular portrait of recent immigrants is off-point in other respects as well. While more immigrants than native-born Americans lack high school diplomas, equivalent shares of both groups have college or post-college degrees. That finding should make it unsurprising that 28 percent of U.S. immigrants work as managers or professionals, including 38 percent of those who have become naturalized citizens or the same share as native-born Americans.

Many Americans would probably acknowledge that their concerns about immigration lie principally with those who are undocumented. No one likes being reminded that the world’s most powerful nation hasn’t figured out how to effectively police its own borders. But the data also show that these undocumented people, who account for 30 percent of all recent immigrants, embody some traditional values much more than native-born Americans. For example, while undocumented male immigrants are generally low-skilled, they also have the country’s highest labor participation rate: Among working-age men, 94 percent of undocumented immigrants work or actively are seeking work, compared to 83 percent of the native born. One critical reason is that undocumented immigrants are more likely to support traditional families with children: 47 percent of undocumented immigrants today are part of couples with children, compared to just 21 percent of native-born Americans.

The evidence regarding the impact of immigration on wages also turns up some surprising results. First, there’s simply no evidence that the recent waves of immigration have slowed the wage progress of average, native-born American workers. Overall, in fact, the studies show that immigration has increased the average wage of Americans modestly in the short-run, and by more over the long-term as capital investment rises to take account of the larger number of workers. Behind those results, however, lie winners and losers – although in both cases, the effects are modest. Among workers, the winners are generally higher-skilled Americans: For example, when a factory or hotel hires more low-skilled workers, demand also increases for the higher-skilled people who manage those workers or carry out other professional tasks for an enterprise that’s grown larger.

The losers are generally the lower-skilled workers who have to compete for jobs with recent immigrants. But studies also show that immigration reform might well take care of most of those effects. Following the 1986 immigration reforms, for example, previously-undocumented immigrants experienced big pay boosts – as much as 15 or 20 percent – and immigrants who already had legal status saw hefty wage gains, too. But the reforms also led to higher wages for lower-skilled native-born Americans. One reason is that undocumented people who gain legal status can move more freely to places with greater demand for their skills, reducing their competition with native-born people with similar skills. More important, their new legal status confers certain protections such as minimum wage and overtime rules. Today, about one-fourth of low-skilled workers in large American cities are paid less than the minimum wage, including 16 percent of native-born workers, 26 percent of legal immigrants, and 38 percent of undocumented workers. Ending the ability of unscrupulous employers to recruit people to work for less than the minimum wage would not only raise the incomes of those currently paid less than the minimum wage. It also would ease downward pressures on the wages of other lower-skilled Americans, which comes from the below-minimum wage workers. This process is something we have refered to as "closing the 'trap-door' under the minimum wage."

Looking again at immigrants generally, recent research also shows a strong entrepreneurial streak, with immigrants being 30 percent more likely than native-born Americans to start their own businesses. Nor are immigrants the fiscal drain that’s commonly supposed, at least not in the long term. In California and a few other states, immigrants today do entail a net, fiscal burden, principally reflecting the costs of public education for their children. But studies that use dynamic models to take account of the lifetime earnings of immigrants – most of whom arrive here post-school age and without elderly parents to claim Social Security and Medicare – show substantial net fiscal gains at the federal, state, and local levels.

The Economics of Immigration Are Not What You Think | NDN

It's WAY more simpler than that wordy disclaimer. Fact is, they suck off of a social infrastructure they don't pay into. Trying to make it sound any more complicated than THAT is just smoke and mirrors.

I've worked around them for 10 years. They pack up like rats in the smallest apartment they can rent, work for cash, and send it home. Yet, if one of them is hurt, they can't be denied medical care.

Why do you think medical insurance is so high? Obama wants to fix it with some socialist solution instead of looking at the reasons. WE, the taxpaying public, foot the bill for the uninsured. While not all uninsured are illegals, all illegals ARE uninsured.

If a woman drops a baby this side of the border, we, the taxpayers, have to support that child AND his illegal mother to age 18.

This has nothing to do with politics. It's common sense, cause and effect.

Some people just don't want to look at the truth.

Did you read that wordy disclaimer? I don't remember the last time I saw anyone work that hard to pretend that what they were saying was actually something different than the words coming out of their mouth (or out of their computer, as the case may be).

"With my colleague Jiwon Vellucci, we found, to start, that more than one-third of recent immigrants come from Europe and Asia, while less than 57 percent have come from Mexico and other Latin American nations."

Which is another way of saying, "33% of legal immigrants are European and Asian, while over half of them are Mexican/Latino." And how is this actually different from what people actually believe about legal immigration? It isn't, as far as I can see, but that phrasing - "more than one-third, fewer than 57%" - is deliberately intended to make the first appear bigger and the second appear small.

And why are we even talking about LEGAL immigration, when the actual concern on everyone's mind is ILLEGAL immigration, as is mentioned in the second paragraph. And yet the writers continue conflating the two throughout.
 
I think there is going to be a big problem between Republicans and their "Corporate Masters".

Corporations want "cheap labor" and if they don't get it, they move to another country, like Mexico.

Hershey’s Chocolate Moves to Mexico

Hershey?s Chocolate Moves to Mexico - Cape May County Herald

Maytag closes plant, moving to Mexico to
cut costs - reports 48% profit rise 3 days later.

Boycott Watch - Maytag closes plant, moving 1,600 jobs to Mexico to cut costs - reports 48% profit rise 3 days later.

Computer assembly jobs moving to Mexico | Make and Buy | NashvillePost.com: Nashville Business News + Nashville Political News

Polaris (PII) To Move American Jobs To Mexico - Great For Profits And Stocks; Not So Much For American Workers | iStockAnalyst.com

GM just sent 60,000 American jobs to Mexico by 2012 - Topix

----------------And the conservative Supreme Court made Companies "Citizens" and Republicans loved it. Doesn't it bother them to get screwed in the butt by their corporate masters? Guess not.

Remember, the way you treat illegals now is how they will treat you when you sneak across the borders looking for a house to clean or a lawn to mow.
 
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From the report listed above, nearly 40% of illegals are white. Republicans don't seemed to be too concerned with them.

illegal is illegal. I don't care if they are purple or green. ALL illegals need to be given the boot.




An interesting side note to unintended consequences in terms of the cheap labor that I see all of the time.

When you see knots of men, arms outstretched looking for work at places like the home depot or paint stores, the are interestingly enough mexican. I give them credit for their moxie and willingness to work. (that does not change my opinion of illegals needing to go home)

What is VERY interesting to me is what you DON'T see out there hustings for work. What you DONT see in the fields. What you don't see as dishwashers or maids.

Where are all of these people with signs "will work or food"? Where are all of these whining welfare slugs trying to hustle for a job? I never see street bum's in those groups wanting to work.

To be blunt I don't see whites or blacks out there hustings for work.

A novel question, why aren't any of these people out there willing to work? Have we made institutional welfare such a great deal that working for a living is to far beneath their standards?

Could it be that the unintended consequences are the fault of lazy americans who would prefer not to work and get a check every month free of charge?

Could it be that the unintended consequences are the direct result of the welfare system.


If a white or a black got near those Mexicans looking for work, they would be attacked. That's why you don't see them there.
 
Immigration is good for a country. There are apparently 12 million illegal immigrants in the USA. Now these people cannot and will not be put out of the country. Solution...have a 12 month moratorium all all deportation, allow illegals to come forward and if they have NO criminal record they should be accepted as landed legal immigrants. It's time to take a "greenfield" approach to this problem because it isnt going away and the USA is getting a bad name all over the world because of the crazy AZ law.

Yeah, because what we really want to do is reward lawbreakers and insult the legal immigrants in our nation.
 
One of the main reason for our national financial problems is that a 50 state budget can't cover 53 states worth of people
 
The New Policy Institute (NPI) asked me to review all of the available data and economic studies of recent U.S. immigration. With my colleague Jiwon Vellucci, we found, to start, that more than one-third of recent immigrants come from Europe and Asia, while less than 57 percent have come from Mexico and other Latin American nations. The popular portrait of recent immigrants is off-point in other respects as well. While more immigrants than native-born Americans lack high school diplomas, equivalent shares of both groups have college or post-college degrees. That finding should make it unsurprising that 28 percent of U.S. immigrants work as managers or professionals, including 38 percent of those who have become naturalized citizens or the same share as native-born Americans.

Many Americans would probably acknowledge that their concerns about immigration lie principally with those who are undocumented. No one likes being reminded that the world’s most powerful nation hasn’t figured out how to effectively police its own borders. But the data also show that these undocumented people, who account for 30 percent of all recent immigrants, embody some traditional values much more than native-born Americans. For example, while undocumented male immigrants are generally low-skilled, they also have the country’s highest labor participation rate: Among working-age men, 94 percent of undocumented immigrants work or actively are seeking work, compared to 83 percent of the native born. One critical reason is that undocumented immigrants are more likely to support traditional families with children: 47 percent of undocumented immigrants today are part of couples with children, compared to just 21 percent of native-born Americans.

The evidence regarding the impact of immigration on wages also turns up some surprising results. First, there’s simply no evidence that the recent waves of immigration have slowed the wage progress of average, native-born American workers. Overall, in fact, the studies show that immigration has increased the average wage of Americans modestly in the short-run, and by more over the long-term as capital investment rises to take account of the larger number of workers. Behind those results, however, lie winners and losers – although in both cases, the effects are modest. Among workers, the winners are generally higher-skilled Americans: For example, when a factory or hotel hires more low-skilled workers, demand also increases for the higher-skilled people who manage those workers or carry out other professional tasks for an enterprise that’s grown larger.

The losers are generally the lower-skilled workers who have to compete for jobs with recent immigrants. But studies also show that immigration reform might well take care of most of those effects. Following the 1986 immigration reforms, for example, previously-undocumented immigrants experienced big pay boosts – as much as 15 or 20 percent – and immigrants who already had legal status saw hefty wage gains, too. But the reforms also led to higher wages for lower-skilled native-born Americans. One reason is that undocumented people who gain legal status can move more freely to places with greater demand for their skills, reducing their competition with native-born people with similar skills. More important, their new legal status confers certain protections such as minimum wage and overtime rules. Today, about one-fourth of low-skilled workers in large American cities are paid less than the minimum wage, including 16 percent of native-born workers, 26 percent of legal immigrants, and 38 percent of undocumented workers. Ending the ability of unscrupulous employers to recruit people to work for less than the minimum wage would not only raise the incomes of those currently paid less than the minimum wage. It also would ease downward pressures on the wages of other lower-skilled Americans, which comes from the below-minimum wage workers. This process is something we have refered to as "closing the 'trap-door' under the minimum wage."

Looking again at immigrants generally, recent research also shows a strong entrepreneurial streak, with immigrants being 30 percent more likely than native-born Americans to start their own businesses. Nor are immigrants the fiscal drain that’s commonly supposed, at least not in the long term. In California and a few other states, immigrants today do entail a net, fiscal burden, principally reflecting the costs of public education for their children. But studies that use dynamic models to take account of the lifetime earnings of immigrants – most of whom arrive here post-school age and without elderly parents to claim Social Security and Medicare – show substantial net fiscal gains at the federal, state, and local levels.

The Economics of Immigration Are Not What You Think | NDN

It's WAY more simpler than that wordy disclaimer. Fact is, they suck off of a social infrastructure they don't pay into. Trying to make it sound any more complicated than THAT is just smoke and mirrors.

I've worked around them for 10 years. They pack up like rats in the smallest apartment they can rent, work for cash, and send it home. Yet, if one of them is hurt, they can't be denied medical care.

Why do you think medical insurance is so high? Obama wants to fix it with some socialist solution instead of looking at the reasons. WE, the taxpaying public, foot the bill for the uninsured. While not all uninsured are illegals, all illegals ARE uninsured.

If a woman drops a baby this side of the border, we, the taxpayers, have to support that child AND his illegal mother to age 18.

This has nothing to do with politics. It's common sense, cause and effect.

Some people just don't want to look at the truth.

And it has to cease.
 
From the report listed above, nearly 40% of illegals are white. Republicans don't seemed to be too concerned with them.

illegal is illegal. I don't care if they are purple or green. ALL illegals need to be given the boot.




An interesting side note to unintended consequences in terms of the cheap labor that I see all of the time.

When you see knots of men, arms outstretched looking for work at places like the home depot or paint stores, the are interestingly enough mexican. I give them credit for their moxie and willingness to work. (that does not change my opinion of illegals needing to go home)

What is VERY interesting to me is what you DON'T see out there hustings for work. What you DONT see in the fields. What you don't see as dishwashers or maids.

Where are all of these people with signs "will work or food"? Where are all of these whining welfare slugs trying to hustle for a job? I never see street bum's in those groups wanting to work.

To be blunt I don't see whites or blacks out there hustings for work.

A novel question, why aren't any of these people out there willing to work? Have we made institutional welfare such a great deal that working for a living is to far beneath their standards?

Could it be that the unintended consequences are the fault of lazy americans who would prefer not to work and get a check every month free of charge?

Could it be that the unintended consequences are the direct result of the welfare system.


If a white or a black got near those Mexicans looking for work, they would be attacked. That's why you don't see them there.

In truth, the reason you don't see whites and blacks standing in the Home Depot parking lot as under-the-table day laborers is that they're legal residents, and can apply for REAL jobs.
 

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