The downward death spiral of lassaize faire capitalism

[Red Dawn]

if carter and clinton had not signed any of these lending practices into law we would not be having this discussion.....

One of these days, the "get government out of the way" ideology Rush Limbaugh has propogandized you with is going to get you killed or unemployed. The rich that Rush cares so much aabout don't give a shit about you. They're busy saving their own asses.

Private markets caused meldown, not government

WASHINGTON — As the economy worsens and Election Day approaches, a conservative campaign that blames the global financial crisis on a government push to make housing more affordable to lower-class Americans has taken off on talk radio and e-mail.
Commentators say that's what triggered the stock market meltdown and the freeze on credit. They've specifically targeted the mortgage finance giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which the federal government seized on Sept. 6, contending that lending to poor and minority Americans caused Fannie's and Freddie's financial problems.

Federal housing data reveal that the charges aren't true, and that the private sector, not the government or government-backed companies, was behind the soaring subprime lending at the core of the crisis.

Subprime lending offered high-cost loans to the weakest borrowers during the housing boom that lasted from 2001 to 2007. Subprime lending was at its height from 2004 to 2006.
Federal Reserve Board data show that:

More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending institutions.

Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year.

Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that's being lambasted by conservative critics.

McClatchy Washington Bureau | 10/12/2008 | Private sector loans, not Fannie or Freddie, triggered crisis

I'm guessing you've been reading NewsMax, Drudge, and Fox News for years now. And you were led to believe that deregulation and "getting government out of the way" were great ideas. Guess what? It was all a ruse by corportists, rich people, and their repubilcan pawns to protect their wealth, ship our jobs overseas, and reduce the bottom line cost to themselves of doing business here. You bought it hook line and sinker.

One of these days, maybe sooner than you think, you might be begging for one of those great liberal programs, like unemployment benefits, college loans to retrain for another career, hell maybe even food stamps. Hell, maybe we all will at some point. This is way scarier than the Jimmy Carter or Ronald Reagan recessions. I'm guessing you spent many years proclaiming that government shouldn't do anything, and should just get out of the way of the markets, and leave everyone alone.

How's that working out for you, and the nation?

Listen, when you elect people who hate government, they have no interest in making government work. Because that means providing oversight and regulations on wealth and capital. And your Bushy boy was apparently told by the FBI that massive mortgage fraud was going on. And they guy you voted for twice turned a blind eye, because regulations, oversight, and enforcment of white collar criminal law is not an interest to him. You and your cons buddies have told us to get out of the way of corporations and rich people, and the free markets will self police.


Absolutley fucking laughable at this point.

 

[Zoomie1980]

The final stake in the coffin of lassaize faire, “get government out of the way” ideology. The “free” market can't be trusted with deregulation, and it can’t be assumed that markets will either “Police” themselves or that markets are “self correcting”. Yeah, “self correction” while millions of people get fucked.

The FBI had evidence of massive mortgage fraud occurring (so much for the argument of bush supporters that it was just limited to “stupid people” who borrowed more than they could afford), yet the Bush administration decided not to make it a priority or provide the FBI more resources to address the problem.

FBI saw mortgage fraud early

The FBI was aware for years of "pervasive and growing" fraud in the mortgage industry that eventually contributed to America's financial meltdown, but did not take definitive action to stop it.

"It is clear that we had good intelligence on the mortgage-fraud schemes, the corrupt attorneys, the corrupt appraisers, the insider schemes," said a recently retired, high FBI official. Another retired top FBI official confirmed that such intelligence went back to 2002.
The problem, according to the two FBI retirees and several other current and former bureau colleagues, is that the bureau was stretched so thin that no one noticed when those lenders began packaging bad mortgages into bad securities.

Both retired FBI officials asserted that the Bush administration was thoroughly briefed on the mortgage fraud crisis and its potential to cascade out of control with devastating financial consequences, but made the decision not to give back to the FBI the agents it needed to address the problem. After the terrorist attacks of 2001, about 2,400 agents were reassigned to counterterrorism duties.

But Deputy Director Steve McMillin of the Bush White House's Office of Management and Budget told the P-I last year that even partially restoring the FBI crime-fighting capabilities was not a priority.

"The assumption that how it was pre- 9/11 is how it ought to be for all time is not the correct premise," he said.

The first retired FBI official said: "We made a direct pitch (for more agents) to the OMB even though we weren't supposed to and they said no." Instead, "we were looking at reductions, not additions…

FBI saw mortgage fraud early

Well, not sure how that can be since we certainly have never had a particularly free, unregulated economy in this country. Only a tiny handful of small Pacific Rim countries, like Singapore, have one....

 

[Zoomie1980]

if carter and clinton had not signed any of these lending practices into law we would not be having this discussion.....

One of these days, the "get government out of the way" ideology Rush Limbaugh has propogandized you with is going to get you killed or unemployed. The rich that Rush cares so much aabout don't give a shit about you. They're busy saving their own asses.

Private markets caused meldown, not government

WASHINGTON — As the economy worsens and Election Day approaches, a conservative campaign that blames the global financial crisis on a government push to make housing more affordable to lower-class Americans has taken off on talk radio and e-mail.
Commentators say that's what triggered the stock market meltdown and the freeze on credit. They've specifically targeted the mortgage finance giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which the federal government seized on Sept. 6, contending that lending to poor and minority Americans caused Fannie's and Freddie's financial problems.

Federal housing data reveal that the charges aren't true, and that the private sector, not the government or government-backed companies, was behind the soaring subprime lending at the core of the crisis.

Subprime lending offered high-cost loans to the weakest borrowers during the housing boom that lasted from 2001 to 2007. Subprime lending was at its height from 2004 to 2006.
Federal Reserve Board data show that:

More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending institutions.

Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year.

Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that's being lambasted by conservative critics.

McClatchy Washington Bureau | 10/12/2008 | Private sector loans, not Fannie or Freddie, triggered crisis

I'm guessing you've been reading NewsMax, Drudge, and Fox News for years now. And you were led to believe that deregulation and "getting government out of the way" were great ideas. Guess what? It was all a ruse by corportists, rich people, and their repubilcan pawns to protect their wealth, ship our jobs overseas, and reduce the bottom line cost to themselves of doing business here. You bought it hook line and sinker.

One of these days, maybe sooner than you think, you might be begging for one of those great liberal programs, like unemployment benefits, college loans to retrain for another career, hell maybe even food stamps. Hell, maybe we all will at some point. This is way scarier than the Jimmy Carter or Ronald Reagan recessions. I'm guessing you spent many years proclaiming that government shouldn't do anything, and should just get out of the way of the markets, and leave everyone alone.

How's that working out for you, and the nation?

Listen, when you elect people who hate government, they have no interest in making government work. Because that means providing oversight and regulations on wealth and capital. And your Bushy boy was apparently told by the FBI that massive mortgage fraud was going on. And they guy you voted for twice turned a blind eye, because regulations, oversight, and enforcment of white collar criminal law is not an interest to him. You and your cons buddies have told us to get out of the way of corporations and rich people, and the free markets will self police.


Absolutley fucking laughable at this point.

It was regulation that forced lending to those who had no business getting money that was at the root, coupled with lack of regulation in limiting excesses. Regulation is needed, but only the bare amount needed, narrowly targeted to prevent speculative excess.

 

[manu1959]

if carter and clinton had not signed any of these lending practices into law we would not be having this discussion.....

One of these days, the "get government out of the way" ideology Rush Limbaugh has propogandized you with is going to get you killed or unemployed. The rich that Rush cares so much aabout don't give a shit about you. They're busy saving their own asses.

Private markets caused meldown, not government

WASHINGTON — As the economy worsens and Election Day approaches, a conservative campaign that blames the global financial crisis on a government push to make housing more affordable to lower-class Americans has taken off on talk radio and e-mail.
Commentators say that's what triggered the stock market meltdown and the freeze on credit. They've specifically targeted the mortgage finance giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which the federal government seized on Sept. 6, contending that lending to poor and minority Americans caused Fannie's and Freddie's financial problems.

Federal housing data reveal that the charges aren't true, and that the private sector, not the government or government-backed companies, was behind the soaring subprime lending at the core of the crisis.

Subprime lending offered high-cost loans to the weakest borrowers during the housing boom that lasted from 2001 to 2007. Subprime lending was at its height from 2004 to 2006.
Federal Reserve Board data show that:

More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending institutions.

Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year.

Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that's being lambasted by conservative critics.

McClatchy Washington Bureau | 10/12/2008 | Private sector loans, not Fannie or Freddie, triggered crisis

I'm guessing you've been reading NewsMax, Drudge, and Fox News for years now. And you were led to believe that deregulation and "getting government out of the way" were great ideas. Guess what? It was all a ruse by corportists, rich people, and their repubilcan pawns to protect their wealth, ship our jobs overseas, and reduce the bottom line cost to themselves of doing business here. You bought it hook line and sinker.

One of these days, maybe sooner than you think, you might be begging for one of those great liberal programs, like unemployment benefits, college loans to retrain for another career, hell maybe even food stamps. Hell, maybe we all will at some point. This is way scarier than the Jimmy Carter or Ronald Reagan recessions. I'm guessing you spent many years proclaiming that government shouldn't do anything, and should just get out of the way of the markets, and leave everyone alone.

How's that working out for you, and the nation?

Listen, when you elect people who hate government, they have no interest in making government work. Because that means providing oversight and regulations on wealth and capital. And your Bushy boy was apparently told by the FBI that massive mortgage fraud was going on. And they guy you voted for twice turned a blind eye, because regulations, oversight, and enforcment of white collar criminal law is not an interest to him. You and your cons buddies have told us to get out of the way of corporations and rich people, and the free markets will self police.


Absolutley fucking laughable at this point.

the policy that was abused was created by the government not the private sector.....

name one government run program that is as efficient and profitable as any private company.....

if the government knew what it was doing it would be proiftable.....

and i am one of those rich evil employers that employes hundreds and passes out healthcare and gives bounuses and has profit sharing......

other than bitch what do you do.....

 

[Red Dawn]

if carter and clinton had not signed any of these lending practices into law we would not be having this discussion.....

One of these days, the "get government out of the way" ideology Rush Limbaugh has propogandized you with is going to get you killed or unemployed. The rich that Rush cares so much aabout don't give a shit about you. They're busy saving their own asses.

Private markets caused meldown, not government

WASHINGTON — As the economy worsens and Election Day approaches, a conservative campaign that blames the global financial crisis on a government push to make housing more affordable to lower-class Americans has taken off on talk radio and e-mail.
Commentators say that's what triggered the stock market meltdown and the freeze on credit. They've specifically targeted the mortgage finance giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which the federal government seized on Sept. 6, contending that lending to poor and minority Americans caused Fannie's and Freddie's financial problems.

Federal housing data reveal that the charges aren't true, and that the private sector, not the government or government-backed companies, was behind the soaring subprime lending at the core of the crisis.

Subprime lending offered high-cost loans to the weakest borrowers during the housing boom that lasted from 2001 to 2007. Subprime lending was at its height from 2004 to 2006.
Federal Reserve Board data show that:

More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending institutions.

Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year.

Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that's being lambasted by conservative critics.

McClatchy Washington Bureau | 10/12/2008 | Private sector loans, not Fannie or Freddie, triggered crisis

I'm guessing you've been reading NewsMax, Drudge, and Fox News for years now. And you were led to believe that deregulation and "getting government out of the way" were great ideas. Guess what? It was all a ruse by corportists, rich people, and their repubilcan pawns to protect their wealth, ship our jobs overseas, and reduce the bottom line cost to themselves of doing business here. You bought it hook line and sinker.

One of these days, maybe sooner than you think, you might be begging for one of those great liberal programs, like unemployment benefits, college loans to retrain for another career, hell maybe even food stamps. Hell, maybe we all will at some point. This is way scarier than the Jimmy Carter or Ronald Reagan recessions. I'm guessing you spent many years proclaiming that government shouldn't do anything, and should just get out of the way of the markets, and leave everyone alone.

How's that working out for you, and the nation?

Listen, when you elect people who hate government, they have no interest in making government work. Because that means providing oversight and regulations on wealth and capital. And your Bushy boy was apparently told by the FBI that massive mortgage fraud was going on. And they guy you voted for twice turned a blind eye, because regulations, oversight, and enforcment of white collar criminal law is not an interest to him. You and your cons buddies have told us to get out of the way of corporations and rich people, and the free markets will self police.


Absolutley fucking laughable at this point.

It was regulation that forced lending to those who had no business getting money that was at the root, coupled with lack of regulation in limiting excesses. Regulation is needed, but only the bare amount needed, narrowly targeted to prevent speculative excess.

I wish you would have read what I posted, rather than just responding with some random thoughts.

The actual housing data that is published, says that only ONE of the top 25 lenders in the subprime market were even subject to those evil govenment programs that Bush supporters claim caused all the problems.

Here's a tip: Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity lied to you.

The rich and the corrupt are running for cover and throwing all kinds of bullshit in the air to cover their tracks. Their greed and corruption were the root cause of this. Not the only cause. But its the shit that pushed it over the edge. Willingly aided by Sean Hannity, George Bush, and NewsMax.

You've been ass fucked by the rightwing media, who are nothing more than propagandists for wealth and capital. Maybe someday you'll realize how badly you've been fucked. It might take a depression.

 

[Zoomie1980]

Free market ideas did not prevail prior to the Great Depression, the Federal Reserve prevailed prior to the Great Depression and Hoover's interventionist policies prevailed prior to the Great Depression.

you're mixing up issues. the "fed" may be your focus, but it isn't what caused the depression. and in fact, Bernanke, acknowledged that he was WRONG and that he should have been more hands on, not less. your beloved laissez faire capitalism has already been proven to be a massive failure.... as has trickle down economics.

why is it people like you ask that we accept your failed policies over and over?

Actually it is working extremely well. We failed to regulate excess, allowed two excessively huge asset bubbles to create themselves leading to high profits for a while, which everyone loved, but then whine when the inevitable, equally excessive correction occurs?

No, things are going EXACTLY as they SHOULD go and we are seeing the long sought after belt tightening in consumer habits happen as a result. People are actually paying off credit cards now....what a concept....

 

[Toro]

This is not a failure of laissez faire capitalism. This is a failure of laissez faire financial capitalism. It's not even laissez faire.

Financial systems are unstable and need a sufficient amount of capital to back their loans. However, when times are good, people think times will last forever, so they extend loans that should not be made. When times turn bad, those loans sour. If the bank has enough capital in reserve, it will be fine. If it does not, it will be wiped out. The global financial system was under-capitalized because banks were not required to reserve enough. They over-extended themselves. Thus, stronger regulation is needed to ensure that banks have sufficient capital.

There is no problem with the American model of capitalism outside of the financial services. 80% of the American economy is not financial services or housing, and it has not broken down.

 

[Toro]

if the government knew what it was doing it would be proiftable.....

Government is not designed to be profitable. It is designed to respond to democratic impulses. Societies internalize goods and services that are deemed too important to be left to the private sector and thus are run at a loss for a greater social good.

 

[Gunny]

The final stake in the coffin of lassaize faire, “get government out of the way” ideology. The “free” market can't be trusted with deregulation, and it can’t be assumed that markets will either “Police” themselves or that markets are “self correcting”. Yeah, “self correction” while millions of people get fucked.

The FBI had evidence of massive mortgage fraud occurring (so much for the argument of bush supporters that it was just limited to “stupid people” who borrowed more than they could afford), yet the Bush administration decided not to make it a priority or provide the FBI more resources to address the problem.

FBI saw mortgage fraud early

The FBI was aware for years of "pervasive and growing" fraud in the mortgage industry that eventually contributed to America's financial meltdown, but did not take definitive action to stop it.

"It is clear that we had good intelligence on the mortgage-fraud schemes, the corrupt attorneys, the corrupt appraisers, the insider schemes," said a recently retired, high FBI official. Another retired top FBI official confirmed that such intelligence went back to 2002.
The problem, according to the two FBI retirees and several other current and former bureau colleagues, is that the bureau was stretched so thin that no one noticed when those lenders began packaging bad mortgages into bad securities.

Both retired FBI officials asserted that the Bush administration was thoroughly briefed on the mortgage fraud crisis and its potential to cascade out of control with devastating financial consequences, but made the decision not to give back to the FBI the agents it needed to address the problem. After the terrorist attacks of 2001, about 2,400 agents were reassigned to counterterrorism duties.

But Deputy Director Steve McMillin of the Bush White House's Office of Management and Budget told the P-I last year that even partially restoring the FBI crime-fighting capabilities was not a priority.

"The assumption that how it was pre- 9/11 is how it ought to be for all time is not the correct premise," he said.

The first retired FBI official said: "We made a direct pitch (for more agents) to the OMB even though we weren't supposed to and they said no." Instead, "we were looking at reductions, not additions…

FBI saw mortgage fraud early

Right. Because we al know the government is responsible for the mortgage industry.

Sorry, but no one forced these people to sign the forms, so no sale on this BS. The problem occurred at both ends -- the lender and the customer. The government has no business in it.

 

[Xenophon]

I suppose I will point out the obvious to the OP and several others, and say that the problem was caused by government intervention.

Most of you want to blame one party or the other, they both intervened and both got it wrong.

And BTW, there has never been a full blown free market in the USA.

 

[manu1959]

The final stake in the coffin of lassaize faire, “get government out of the way” ideology. The “free” market can't be trusted with deregulation, and it can’t be assumed that markets will either “Police” themselves or that markets are “self correcting”. Yeah, “self correction” while millions of people get fucked.

The FBI had evidence of massive mortgage fraud occurring (so much for the argument of bush supporters that it was just limited to “stupid people” who borrowed more than they could afford), yet the Bush administration decided not to make it a priority or provide the FBI more resources to address the problem.

FBI saw mortgage fraud early

The FBI was aware for years of "pervasive and growing" fraud in the mortgage industry that eventually contributed to America's financial meltdown, but did not take definitive action to stop it.

"It is clear that we had good intelligence on the mortgage-fraud schemes, the corrupt attorneys, the corrupt appraisers, the insider schemes," said a recently retired, high FBI official. Another retired top FBI official confirmed that such intelligence went back to 2002.
The problem, according to the two FBI retirees and several other current and former bureau colleagues, is that the bureau was stretched so thin that no one noticed when those lenders began packaging bad mortgages into bad securities.

Both retired FBI officials asserted that the Bush administration was thoroughly briefed on the mortgage fraud crisis and its potential to cascade out of control with devastating financial consequences, but made the decision not to give back to the FBI the agents it needed to address the problem. After the terrorist attacks of 2001, about 2,400 agents were reassigned to counterterrorism duties.

But Deputy Director Steve McMillin of the Bush White House's Office of Management and Budget told the P-I last year that even partially restoring the FBI crime-fighting capabilities was not a priority.

"The assumption that how it was pre- 9/11 is how it ought to be for all time is not the correct premise," he said.

The first retired FBI official said: "We made a direct pitch (for more agents) to the OMB even though we weren't supposed to and they said no." Instead, "we were looking at reductions, not additions…

FBI saw mortgage fraud early

Right. Because we al know the government is responsible for the mortgage industry.

Sorry, but no one forced these people to sign the forms, so no sale on this BS. The problem occurred at both ends -- the lender and the customer. The government has no business in it.

yep but govt stepped in and passed the policy to create the loans.....so now they feel compelled tostep in and try to fix it......

 

[garyd]

Given that we haven't had deregulation how could it be at fault for anything. Show me this deregulation you are talking about.

Laissez faire capitalism hasn't existed in this country since at least 1916.

 

[Annie]

Why do you do this?

It was so very obviously deregulation and massive war spending accompanied by tax cuts.

I just dont get people who stand by failed policy even when it makes them look like complete buttwinks?

You're right about the massive war-spending, that certainly played it's part. Though it wasn't the main reason for our current economic situation. The Fed is the main perpetrator through inflation and artificially low interest rates. Then we made the situation worse by bailing out failed businesses, and we're working to make it even worse with the stimulus bill that passed the House last night.

You will notice none of those causes represents a free market in action.

artificially low interest rates



At least you got something right.

Hoover should be your new nick name

Actually the protectionist, Hoover mantle is already owned, by the Obama team, sorry.