The Divider vs. the Thinker

[WillowTree]

People are increasingly fearing the divisions within, even the potential coming apart of, our country. Rich/poor, black/white, young/old, red/blue: The things that divide us are not new, yet there's a sense now that the glue that held us together for more than two centuries has thinned and cracked with age. That it was allowed to thin and crack, that the modern era wore it out.

What was the glue? A love of country based on a shared knowledge of how and why it began; a broad feeling among our citizens that there was something providential in our beginnings; a gratitude that left us with a sense that we should comport ourselves in a way unlike the other nations of the world, that more was expected of us, and not unjustly—"To whom much is given much is expected"; a general understanding that we were something new in history, a nation founded on ideals and aspirations—liberty, equality—and not mere grunting tribal wants. We were from Europe but would not be European: No formal class structure here, no limits, from the time you touched ground all roads would lead forward. You would be treated not as your father was but as you deserved. That's from "The Killer Angels," a historical novel about the civil war fought to right a wrong the Founders didn't right. We did in time, and at great cost. What a country.


But there is a broad fear out there that we are coming apart, or rather living through the moment we'll look back on as the beginning of the Great Coming Apart. Economic crisis, cultural stresses: "Half the country isn't speaking to the other half," a moderate Democrat said the other day. She was referring to liberals of her acquaintance who know little of the South and who don't wish to know of it, who write it off as apart from them, maybe beneath them.


The Divider vs. the Thinker - WSJ.com

 

[WillowTree]

Where is the president in all this? He doesn't seem to be as worried about his country's continuance as his own. He's out campaigning and talking of our problems, but he seems oddly oblivious to or detached from America's deeper fears. And so he feels free to exploit divisions. It's all the rich versus the rest, and there are a lot more of the latter.








YES YES YES..

 

[editec]

Read some of the hateful musings of our fellow posters.

How does one make folks understand that we're all in this mess together?

We don't need to worry about that.

When the wolf finally comes to enough doors in America, Americans will wake up.

The Tea Party and the OWS movement are evidence that that is already happening.

The fact that these two groups disagree on the causes of the problem and the solutions, too, doesn't much matter.

The important thing to remember is that the discontent in the population is becoming mainstream.

The center will not hold, you worry?

Good, because the center is the real problem.

The center continues to believe that things are okay and that its just villians causing the problems.

The system doesn't WORK anymore, folks.

It is failing a greater and greater percentage of the population every year.

The center must collapse before we will be willing to RETHINK the social contract.

Think in terms of what the social contract looked like in 1850.

And then consider what it looked like in 1950.

That sort of gives us an idea about how much must change before this society will once again function well enough for enough of us.

 

[Truthmatters]

They dont evern remember sayoing things like REAL AMERICANS.

they spew nonstop hate and have to be shamed out of violent speach and then blame their target for devisions in this country?

 

[WillowTree]

Read some of the hateful musings of our fellow posters.

How does one make folks understand that we're all in this mess together?

We don't need to worry about that.

When the wolf finally comes to enough doors in America, Americans will wake up.

The Tea Party and the OWS movement are evidence that that is already happening.

The fact that these two groups disagree on the causes of the problem and the solutions, too, doesn't much matter.

The important thing to remember is that the discontent in the population is becoming mainstream.

The center will not hold, you worry?

Good, because the center is the real problem.

The center continues to believe that things are okay and that its just villians causing the problems.

The system doesn't WORK anymore, folks.

It is failing a greater and greater percentage of the population every year.

The center must collapse before we will be willing to RETHINK the social contract.

Think in terms of what the social contract looked like in 1850.

And then consider what it looked like in 1950.

That sort of gives us an idea about how much must change before this society will once again function well enough for enough of us.

Why would it not become mainstream with a divider like obama?

 

[AquaAthena]

Read some of the hateful musings of our fellow posters.

How does one make folks understand that we're all in this mess together?

We don't need to worry about that.

When the wolf finally comes to enough doors in America, Americans will wake up.

The Tea Party and the OWS movement are evidence that that is already happening.

The fact that these two groups disagree on the causes of the problem and the solutions, too, doesn't much matter.

The important thing to remember is that the discontent in the population is becoming mainstream.

The center will not hold, you worry?

Good, because the center is the real problem.

The center continues to believe that things are okay and that its just villians causing the problems.

The system doesn't WORK anymore, folks.

It is failing a greater and greater percentage of the population every year.

The center must collapse before we will be willing to RETHINK the social contract.

Think in terms of what the social contract looked like in 1850.

And then consider what it looked like in 1950.

That sort of gives us an idea about how much must change before this society will once again function well enough for enough of us.

And to one of your points: The system doesn't WORK anymore, folks.

Here is just one example as to why:


“On the domestic side, both Democrats and Republicans have really made it very difficult for the president to be anything like a chief executive,” Daley says. “This has led to a kind of frustration.”

The president’s solution? “Let’s figure out what we can do [without Congress] and push the envelope on some of these things,” Daley says.

Daley recognizes that there are three branches of government and the president leads only one of them, but now is the time for him to flex his muscles and show what he can do without the squabbling, ineffective — and far less popular than even he — Congress.


Read more: Exclusive: Bill Daley, unplugged - Roger Simon - POLITICO.com

 

[WillowTree]

Dysfunction is when a government agency NLRB is allowed to tell an American corporation where they can do business.. too fucking much government.

 

[WillowTree]

from the article.



Twenty twelve won't be "as sexy" as 2008, he said this week. It will be all brute force. Which will only add to the feeling of unease.




way to go demonRats.

 

[Truthmatters]

Which party is refusing ANY attempts at compromise?

which party has voted against their OWN bills when the president backs them?

 

[WillowTree]

Which party is refusing ANY attempts at compromise?

which party has voted against their OWN bills when the president backs them?

so you're good with BRUTE FORCE?

 

[WillowTree]

Now for the Thinker



Which gets us to Rep. Paul Ryan. Mr. Ryan receives much praise, but I don't think his role in the current moment has been fully recognized. He is doing something unique in national politics. He thinks. He studies. He reads. Then he comes forward to speak, calmly and at some length, about what he believes to be true. He defines a problem and offers solutions, often providing the intellectual and philosophical rationale behind them. Conservatives naturally like him—they agree with him—but liberals and journalists inclined to disagree with him take him seriously and treat him with respect.



The Divider vs. the Thinker - WSJ.com

 

[Navy1960]

"Now more than ever before, the people are responsible for the character of their Congress. If that body be ignorant, reckless and corrupt, it is because the people tolerate ignorance, recklessness and corruption. If it be intelligent, brave and pure, it is because the people demand these high qualities to represent them in the national legislature.... If the next centennial does not find us a great nation ... it will be because those who represent the enterprise, the culture, and the morality of the nation do not aid in controlling the political forces."
James Garfield, the twentieth president of the United States, 1877

Here's a thought on "division" it is we , who vote for those who represent us, be it Republican and Democrat or for that matter whatever party you vote for. If some citizens choose to vote simply on the basis of that alone, then we tend to end up with a "divided" Govt. that does not really represent the will of the vast majority of the American people. One that tends to lean towards the interests not of those they represent, but those with the loudest voice, or the deepest pocket. I wonder sometimes if the founding fathers were to come back, would they approve of these or would they say, we as Americans have forgotten we the citizens are the one's that make the choice and end up basically with what we get. If a majority of those citizens choose not to be a part of that process, or as I mentioned above, put on that team jersey and forget that they too are Americans before they are a member of the party they are in, then they too are in store for a divided government. So how do you cure this some may ask?, well at least in my very humble opinion it's simple, vote based not on party but on "will that person represent you, his state, and most of all his nation" then somewhere in there after all that maybe his party.

 

[Truthmatters]

Which party is refusing ANY attempts at compromise?

which party has voted against their OWN bills when the president backs them?

so you're good with BRUTE FORCE?

How is voting against a bill you wrote and sponsered ONLY because the president came on board being forced to do anything?

 

[WillowTree]

Which party is refusing ANY attempts at compromise?

which party has voted against their OWN bills when the president backs them?

so you're good with BRUTE FORCE?

How is voting against a bill you wrote and sponsered ONLY because the president came on board being forced to do anything?

Those were obama's words BRUTE FORCE.. you good with that?

 

[Flopper]

Read some of the hateful musings of our fellow posters.

How does one make folks understand that we're all in this mess together?

We don't need to worry about that.

When the wolf finally comes to enough doors in America, Americans will wake up.

The Tea Party and the OWS movement are evidence that that is already happening.

The fact that these two groups disagree on the causes of the problem and the solutions, too, doesn't much matter.

The important thing to remember is that the discontent in the population is becoming mainstream.

The center will not hold, you worry?

Good, because the center is the real problem.

The center continues to believe that things are okay and that its just villians causing the problems.

The system doesn't WORK anymore, folks.

It is failing a greater and greater percentage of the population every year.

The center must collapse before we will be willing to RETHINK the social contract.

Think in terms of what the social contract looked like in 1850.

And then consider what it looked like in 1950.

That sort of gives us an idea about how much must change before this society will once again function well enough for enough of us.

I agree with most of your post, however I don't see that the center is the problem. Cut out the moderate Republicans and Democrats and you will have two extremist groups that can agree on nothing. Power will continue to shift back and forth between the two sides as it has always done. As each side comes into power it would reverse the direction of the previous side through legislation and executive orders. The result would be a nation that swings far to the left then far to right and ends up going nowhere.

 

[Truthmatters]

so you're good with BRUTE FORCE?

How is voting against a bill you wrote and sponsered ONLY because the president came on board being forced to do anything?

Those were obama's words BRUTE FORCE.. you good with that?

A little context might help huh?

 

[Unkotare]

Don't panic. Our Republic will endure long after obama is an old man chain smoking in a retirement home in Hawaii mumbling "Bush's fault, Bush's fault."

 

[midcan5]

....What was the glue? A love of country based on a shared knowledge of how and why it began; a broad feeling among our citizens that there was something providential in our beginnings; a gratitude that left us with a sense that we should comport ourselves in a way unlike the other nations of the world, that more was expected of us, and not unjustly—"To whom much is given much is expected"; a general understanding that we were something new in history, a nation founded on ideals and aspirations—liberty, equality—and not mere grunting tribal wants. We were from Europe but would not be European: No formal class structure here, no limits, from the time you touched ground all roads would lead forward. You would be treated not as your father was but as you deserved. That's from "The Killer Angels," a historical novel about the civil war fought to right a wrong the Founders didn't right. We did in time, and at great cost. What a country....

The Divider vs. the Thinker - WSJ.com

I love threads that pose interesting ideas even when the idea is total BS.

While I consider the WSJ a corporate puppet paper, I'll check the complete piece later, their Opinion page pieces are the worst nonsense and contribute to the negativity media presents so well.

The reason I selected the quote above was it is so wrong one would have to live in Disney World's fantasyland to even think it. From the very start of this nation there has been an ongoing battle of the haves and the 99%, the name they go by today. Even in colonial times the fight existed. Do any of these opinion authors know any history?

Consider slavery, the industrial mess, the destruction of farming, the union battles, suffrage, the economic collapses constant and too frequent, the great depression, the destruction of the middle class starting with Reagan but supported by big money long before, the civil rights movement, voter rights - a fight that still goes on. What world do these writers of imaginary past Americas live in? Utopia passed us all by and now we only need to ???? and utopia will come again.

"I am coming to understand that as Americans, we were born into a powerfully induced mass illusion. An infantile consciousness of "I-want-I want," which drives the machinery of war, waste and profits, and which colonizes our minds and souls from birth like a progressive disease." Joe Bageant

 

[BlindBoo]

And I thought you were talking about Bush(The Divider) and Obama (The Thinker)

Silly me.

Carry on.....

 

[Unkotare]

And I thought you were talking about Bush(The Divider) and Obama (The Thinker)

Silly me.

Carry on.....

Such an assumption would indeed be VERY silly of you.