The Divided States of America

[Procrustes Stretched]

I'd have to agree. Do you see any possible terms whereby the President might allow a state to peacefully secede? If not, doesn't that beg the question of who is really taking up arms against who?

No on terms that a President would accept. The President swears to uphold the USC.

The question is not begged. A state can try to peacefully ignore federal government, but that would force the hand of force. It is the federal government's duty to protect the Union from all threats foreign and domestic.

So whether or not they literally take up arms, you're saying the act of secession itself is an act of aggression? Doesn't that make the term "Union" a misnomer? I think "union" implies some sort of voluntary agreement between two parties, whereas if no state is allowed to leave this "union" it would seem there is no union at all but rather a single entity.

When the Union was formed the states agreed ahead of time that all were in if a certain number voted in. Everyone was in whether they voted that way or not. They used argument and debate and conversation to reach an agreed upon consensus. All in.

If all the states wanted a break up, or if an amendment was passed that laid out All Out if a certain number agree...But we cannot have anarchy where any state decides to leave affecting the Union as a whole.

The federal government, the USA is a single entity. The individual states have powers under that entity, but the powers of individual or groups of states cannot overrule the federal powers, except by an amendment process laid out. Madison and others had plenty to say on this after the Union was formed.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

No on terms that a President would accept. The President swears to uphold the USC.

The question is not begged. A state can try to peacefully ignore federal government, but that would force the hand of force. It is the federal government's duty to protect the Union from all threats foreign and domestic.

So whether or not they literally take up arms, you're saying the act of secession itself is an act of aggression? Doesn't that make the term "Union" a misnomer? I think "union" implies some sort of voluntary agreement between two parties, whereas if no state is allowed to leave this "union" it would seem there is no union at all but rather a single entity.

When the Union was formed the states agreed ahead of time that all were in if a certain number voted in. Everyone was in whether they voted that way or not. They used argument and debate and conversation to reach an agreed upon consensus. All in.

If all the states wanted a break up, or if an amendment was passed that laid out All Out if a certain number agree...But we cannot have anarchy where any state decides to leave affecting the Union as a whole.

The federal government, the USA is a single entity. The individual states have powers under that entity, but the powers of individual or groups of states cannot overrule the federal powers, except by an amendment process laid out. Madison and others had plenty to say on this after the Union was formed.

How can it affect the so-called Union as a whole? As I said before, if Texas decides to leave tomorrow I can't imagine how it would affect me. It would cause me no more trouble than Quebec not being an American state does now.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

So whether or not they literally take up arms, you're saying the act of secession itself is an act of aggression? Doesn't that make the term "Union" a misnomer? I think "union" implies some sort of voluntary agreement between two parties, whereas if no state is allowed to leave this "union" it would seem there is no union at all but rather a single entity.

When the Union was formed the states agreed ahead of time that all were in if a certain number voted in. Everyone was in whether they voted that way or not. They used argument and debate and conversation to reach an agreed upon consensus. All in.

If all the states wanted a break up, or if an amendment was passed that laid out All Out if a certain number agree...But we cannot have anarchy where any state decides to leave affecting the Union as a whole.

The federal government, the USA is a single entity. The individual states have powers under that entity, but the powers of individual or groups of states cannot overrule the federal powers, except by an amendment process laid out. Madison and others had plenty to say on this after the Union was formed.

How can it affect the so-called Union as a whole? As I said before, if Texas decides to leave tomorrow I can't imagine how it would affect me. It would cause me no more trouble than Quebec not being an American state does now.

If a state is allowed to leave any other state can follow. That is as big a threat as can be. How the Union was formed answers it all. All In. Timeline of drafting and ratification of the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_Convention_(United_States)#Historical_context

 

[Grandma]

The seccession argument is moot for three reasons, one, no "state" is allowed to leave the union, two, there aren't enough seccessionists to populate a state other than perhaps Rhode Island, and three, I'm pretty sure it would have to go to a national vote, not just a vote among a small group where everyone agrees.

They best they could hope for would be to pool their resources and buy a territory from some country, ours or someone else's, and move there, renouncing their US citizenship and creating a new little country.

 

[jtpr312]

I read a lot of threats of succession from the states by right wingers, survivalists etc...

I was just wondering in your opinion what States would you be fine with giving to the angry lot?

They can have Wyoming wouldn't miss it a bit

I would give my life in war to stop any states from seceding.

And I would happily accept your life if it meant living in a group of states that honored the Constitution, protected the rights of the individual and the states and kept the oppressive federal boot off the necks of those citizens and states. See son, that's the whole thing about a civli war, people on both sides are willing and able to give and take lives for the things they hold dear.

 

[Sallow]

I read a lot of threats of succession from the states by right wingers, survivalists etc...

I was just wondering in your opinion what States would you be fine with giving to the angry lot?

They can have Wyoming wouldn't miss it a bit

Basically these folks are few and far between.

They just yell alot.

If they think they can do a better job..they should leave and form a new country.

Islands for Sale Worldwide - Private Islands Online

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

The seccession argument is moot for three reasons, one, no "state" is allowed to leave the union, two, there aren't enough seccessionists to populate a state other than perhaps Rhode Island, and three, I'm pretty sure it would have to go to a national vote, not just a vote among a small group where everyone agrees.

They best they could hope for would be to pool their resources and buy a territory from some country, ours or someone else's, and move there, renouncing their US citizenship and creating a new little country.

This brings up a question I was thinking about the other day: Why can individual citizens renounce their citizenship, but not citizens comprising a state? Is it simply because the federal government essentially owns that territory?

Also, why did you put the word state in quotation marks?

 

[Katzndogz]

The nation is divided whether or not there is secession of individual states. Peaceful secession would avoid a chaotic and violent fracturing.

 

[editec]

I read a lot of threats of succession from the states by right wingers, survivalists etc...

I was just wondering in your opinion what States would you be fine with giving to the angry lot?

They can have Wyoming wouldn't miss it a bit

I will take anyone in
in Freedmen's Town! We can set up our own Federal Reserve system for restitution

to taxpayers to fix problems per issue, party or state, depending how to organize
teams and resources nationwide.

My joke about secession is to separate from Obama in the opposite way:
just accept the petition from Hawaii to nullify its annexation as unlawful,
and retroactively disqualify Obama's presidency. But first, as a condition
for recognizing Hawaii's independence as a Kingdom, require Hawaii
to accept ALL illegal immigrants as citizens of their island, before seceding from the US.

So Hawaii can take Obama back, along with all the illegal immigrant population.

And any secessionists or Constitutionalist who want to set up a tax-free church or
nonprofit campus at Freedmen's Town can come collect there, buy out the land,
and create a business system for investing in govt reforms on
a sustainable basis by cooperative economics and political partnerships.

I think it's funny how survivalists think they can drop out and somehow take on the government.

How do they imagine that when our military is so strong?

They are magical thinkers.

Most of them are chickenhawks who truly have no idea how much organization plays in making a military function effectively.

They think their guns are all it would take to take down this nation.

Now most of the gun queers I know are more interested in killing their neighbors (when they get the chance) than stopping this nation from becoming the police state it has ALREADY become.

LOOK at them, folks.

What are they?

They're usually losers who are angry about how shitty their lives are seeking to find some scapegoat for their unhappiness.

I wish to HELL they were the people they claim to be...patriot minutemen ready to defend the American way of life.

Almost none of them really are.

 

[Grandma]

The seccession argument is moot for three reasons, one, no "state" is allowed to leave the union, two, there aren't enough seccessionists to populate a state other than perhaps Rhode Island, and three, I'm pretty sure it would have to go to a national vote, not just a vote among a small group where everyone agrees.

They best they could hope for would be to pool their resources and buy a territory from some country, ours or someone else's, and move there, renouncing their US citizenship and creating a new little country.

This brings up a question I was thinking about the other day: Why can individual citizens renounce their citizenship, but not citizens comprising a state? Is it simply because the federal government essentially owns that territory?

Also, why did you put the word state in quotation marks?

As you said, a "state" belongs to the entire country, in the care of the federal government, not to a small group of butthurt whiners that refuse to understand and accept majority rule.

I put state in quotation marks because I was referring to the land mass, not the citizens thereof.

I sincerely hope those that want to leave look into the islands for sale listed in Sallow's link.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

The seccession argument is moot for three reasons, one, no "state" is allowed to leave the union, two, there aren't enough seccessionists to populate a state other than perhaps Rhode Island, and three, I'm pretty sure it would have to go to a national vote, not just a vote among a small group where everyone agrees.

They best they could hope for would be to pool their resources and buy a territory from some country, ours or someone else's, and move there, renouncing their US citizenship and creating a new little country.

This brings up a question I was thinking about the other day: Why can individual citizens renounce their citizenship, but not citizens comprising a state? Is it simply because the federal government essentially owns that territory?

Also, why did you put the word state in quotation marks?

As you said, a "state" belongs to the entire country, in the care of the federal government, not to a small group of butthurt whiners that refuse to understand and accept majority rule.

I put state in quotation marks because I was referring to the land mass, not the citizens thereof.

I sincerely hope those that want to leave look into the islands for sale listed in Sallow's link.

I don't feel as though Texas in any way shape or form belongs to me, and I don't understand how it possibly could. I've never even been there. Much more rational for the people actually living there to decide who they want to have political connections with in my opinion.

 

[Michelle420]

I read a lot of threats of succession from the states by right wingers, survivalists etc...

I was just wondering in your opinion what States would you be fine with giving to the angry lot?

They can have Wyoming wouldn't miss it a bit

I would give my life in war to stop any states from seceding.

And I would happily accept your life if it meant living in a group of states that honored the Constitution, protected the rights of the individual and the states and kept the oppressive federal boot off the necks of those citizens and states. See son, that's the whole thing about a civli war, people on both sides are willing and able to give and take lives for the things they hold dear.

My Money is on Dante

 

[jtpr312]

I would give my life in war to stop any states from seceding.

And I would happily accept your life if it meant living in a group of states that honored the Constitution, protected the rights of the individual and the states and kept the oppressive federal boot off the necks of those citizens and states. See son, that's the whole thing about a civli war, people on both sides are willing and able to give and take lives for the things they hold dear.

My Money is on Dante

I'll gladly accept your money also.

 

[Michelle420]

And I would happily accept your life if it meant living in a group of states that honored the Constitution, protected the rights of the individual and the states and kept the oppressive federal boot off the necks of those citizens and states. See son, that's the whole thing about a civli war, people on both sides are willing and able to give and take lives for the things they hold dear.

My Money is on Dante

I'll gladly accept your money also.

Not worried one bit.

Survivialists versus the Federal Government

 

[Nika2013]

The Divided States of America

"I read a lot of threats of succession from the states by right wingers, survivalists etc...

I was just wondering in your opinion what States would you be fine with giving to the angry lot?" (he stated)
What about North Dakota? or is it South Dakota? Which ever state the Lakota are not in...Who even hears anything about these states? Are they still there? Actually, Dakota is a branch of the tribe so maybe they live in both...

 

[S.J.]

On the one hand, the leftists on this site say things like "good riddance", then on the other hand talk about going to war with the ones who wish to peacefully secede. Seems they want us gone but refuse to let us go without a war. One could logically conclude that what they REALLY want is to kill anyone who doesn't accept this president's (dictator's) communist takeover of our country.

 

[Nika2013]

I vote for Texas to leave the union if it wants and I am Left...
but you guys get no federal funds...You have to live on oil royalties...and the sale of burritos...

 

[jtpr312]

My Money is on Dante

I'll gladly accept your money also.

Not worried one bit.

Survivialists versus the Federal Government

Survivalists? Not to well informed are you son? Most who oppose the oppressiveness and dictatorial actions of the Federal Govt are not survivalists. They are like me. Family men, business owners, former and active military, more of them now that the govt is singling them out by specifically denying them their 2nd amendment right, truck drivers, doctors, etc, etc, etc. Only a tiny, tiny, tiny percentage are what you wouild call "survivalists". I'm sure there where plenty of great thinkers like you in King George's Court who told that King not to worry, it's just a bunch of dumbass farmers and "survivalists" running this Revolution. Sure there where plenty of nay sayers in the Czar's Court who told Czar Nicholas, don't worry, it's just a bunch of peasants running this Revolution. I ccould go on and on with examples like this going back to aniquity and up untill last spring, but I won't. It's a silly little man that ignores history.

 

[jtpr312]

I vote for Texas to leave the union if it wants and I am Left...
but you guys get no federal funds...You have to live on oil royalties...and the sale of burritos...

Why not? America gives more money to help foreign nations than it does to help it's own, so I say we should ALL secede from Washington and then ALL apply to the federal govt for foreign aid.

 

[S.J.]

I vote for Texas to leave the union if it wants and I am Left...
but you guys get no federal funds...You have to live on oil royalties...and the sale of burritos...

Yeah, like you get to call the shots or something.