The Dilemma That Is Paul Ryan

[mudwhistle]

Yes, we are...

But if you really think that the fact that 46 million people have no insurance and 25 million people have inadequate insurance isn't a large part of that puzzle, and that a lot of money spent on health care goes to line the pockets of rich douchebags, you are in serious denial.

How about this. We crib Japan's program in its entirity... socialized medicine and national excercise day.

(Incidently, I've never heard about that, and I used to work for a Japanese company.)

Insurance is not going to get you off your ass and go jogging, bicycling, or go to the gym.

One day of exorcize won't help. A national exercise day is horseshit because after three days any benefit you got from exercise is gone.

When it comes to lining pockets only 20% goes to the needy when you donate to the United Way. The rest goes to pay salaries and overhead. Why do you expect insurance companies only to get 15%? That is the current law thanks to Obamacare. He's putting them out of business.

 

[The Rabbi]

A lot of them will find jobs in the new bureaucracy that will replace private insurance.

But none of their wives would die because EVERYONE would be covered. Mrs. Soptic didn't die because her husband didn't have a job. She died because his insurance sucked.

Of course, the government could run it better. The whole selling point of Medicare Advantage was that it would save money by applying private enterprise principles. In fact, the program costs 20% more than regular medicare.

Not to mention most countries that have single payer pay less per capita than we do AND have longer life expectencies...

Bull shit. You're mixing up life-expectancies with the statistics on fetal fatalities.

Soptic's wife died because ether she couldn't give up smoking or it was just her time.

Insurance never saved anyone from their own habits.

Um,no, I'm not. We have the one of the worst life expectencies in the Industrialized world.

Life Expectancy At Birth, Total years statistics - countries compared - Health data on NationMaster

Japan - #1 82.08 years.
USA #35 77.71 years.

And it isn't because of Smoking.

Smoking Prevalence, Males % of adults statistics - countries compared - Nationmaster

# 37 Japan: 46.9 %
= 115 United States: 24.1 %

And it isn't because they spend more...

Spending per person statistics - countries compared - Nationmaster

# 1 United States: $4,271 per capita
# 9 Japan: $ 2,243 per capita...

So what are the Japanese doing right? Oh, that's right. They have universal coverage!

Actually they have no inner city black people or rural white people. Cut out those two demographics and our life expectency is as good or better than anyone else.
In any case, life expectency is a poor proxy for quality of health care. The only real measure is how well the system responds when someone actually gets sick. In that case we have the best system in the world, bar none. Which is why people travel here to get treated.

 

[Mac1958]

.

It's "all of the above", gang.

Our culture is one of over-indulgence, immediate gratification, fast food and the Kardashians.

Our health care system is an obvious and abject failure in providing preventive and diagnostic care.

1 + 1 = 2.

.

 

[The Rabbi]

.

It's "all of the above", gang.

Our culture is one of over-indulgence, immediate gratification, fast food and the Kardashians.

Our health care system is an obvious and abject failure in providing preventive and diagnostic care.

1 + 1 = 2.

.

Wrong. We have the best diagnostic facilities in the world.
And if you want to see bad diets, I'd suggest a trip to England. And what do the Kardashians have to do with health?

 

[Mac1958]

.

It's "all of the above", gang.

Our culture is one of over-indulgence, immediate gratification, fast food and the Kardashians.

Our health care system is an obvious and abject failure in providing preventive and diagnostic care.

1 + 1 = 2.

.

Wrong. We have the best diagnostic facilities in the world.
And if you want to see bad diets, I'd suggest a trip to England. And what do the Kardashians have to do with health?

Indeed, the diagnostic facilities here are amazing. For those with access. Those who don't have access just get sicker and sicker, and far more expensive in the long run.

The Kardashians have to do with our culture, to which I referred. That one takes a little thinking, I'll try to keep it more simple from here on out.

You appear to be defending the status quo, apparently happy to spend far more on medical care than you need to be, paying for those who cannot. I'm not.

.

 

[JoeB131]

Insurance is not going to get you off your ass and go jogging, bicycling, or go to the gym.

One day of exorcize won't help. A national exercise day is horseshit because after three days any benefit you got from exercise is gone.

When it comes to lining pockets only 20% goes to the needy when you donate to the United Way. The rest goes to pay salaries and overhead. Why do you expect insurance companies only to get 15%? That is the current law thanks to Obamacare. He's putting them out of business.

Oh noes, you mean the insurance assholes won't be getting their 8 figure salaries thanks to Obama...

Getting to where a man can't even make a dishonest living!

 

[JoeB131]

Actually they have no inner city black people or rural white people. Cut out those two demographics and our life expectency is as good or better than anyone else.
In any case, life expectency is a poor proxy for quality of health care. The only real measure is how well the system responds when someone actually gets sick. In that case we have the best system in the world, bar none. Which is why people travel here to get treated.

You mean the Japanese don't let abject poverty happen, those dirty socialists!

Rich people travel here to get treated becaue like rich people everywhere, the idea of getting what everyone else gets horrifies them...

And really, even that's kind of a lie. People from third world countries come here if they are rich enough... rich countries, not so much.

 

[Sallow]

Ryan's a fraud. He's hoping no one notices that he wants to end Medicare to achieve...the same spending growth targets Obama has already achieved.

The VP slot calls for competence and experience, not an ideologue whose purpose is to keep the base interested.

You keep repeating those lies.
Ryan is among the most competent and experienced members of Congress. He actually understands the budget. Obama can't even get one passed.

That's basically lie within a lie. The budgets that don't get passed..don't get passed because Republicans put poison pills into them that make it impossible to vote on.

Ryan's an ideologue and not a very good one. He's voted on many bills that were unpopular with the Tea Party. Additionally, his "new" found faith is a sham. He's an acolyte of Ayn Rand.

This whole "lie" that they are telling about Medicare is a doozy too. Obama didn't "steal" anything. What he did, was something Republicans have been braying about for years..and it pissed off their contributors from the HMOs and big Pharma. He made the payment structure much more efficient and used the saving to strengthen Medicare and fund ObamaCare.

What Ryan wants to do is simple. Kill social programs and fund private defense contractors.

That's it.

 

[Sallow]

Point out the passage in Ryan's plan that says that.

And you feel that big government is better at the insurance business than private insurance companies. You want to put thousands of American in the insurance industry out of business.

I wonder how many wives will die because of that?

A lot of them will find jobs in the new bureaucracy that will replace private insurance.

But none of their wives would die because EVERYONE would be covered. Mrs. Soptic didn't die because her husband didn't have a job. She died because his insurance sucked.

Of course, the government could run it better. The whole selling point of Medicare Advantage was that it would save money by applying private enterprise principles. In fact, the program costs 20% more than regular medicare.

Not to mention most countries that have single payer pay less per capita than we do AND have longer life expectencies...

Bull shit. You're mixing up life-expectancies with the statistics on fetal fatalities.

Soptic's wife died because ether she couldn't give up smoking or it was just her time.

Insurance never saved anyone from their own habits.

Here's a neat trick.

Try traveling.

The people in most rich industrialized nations drink, smoke, eat badly and generally have poor health habits.

Yet they live longer then Americans.

The common denominator is socialized medicine. They get regular checkups.

 

[The Rabbi]

.

It's "all of the above", gang.

Our culture is one of over-indulgence, immediate gratification, fast food and the Kardashians.

Our health care system is an obvious and abject failure in providing preventive and diagnostic care.

1 + 1 = 2.

.

Wrong. We have the best diagnostic facilities in the world.
And if you want to see bad diets, I'd suggest a trip to England. And what do the Kardashians have to do with health?

Indeed, the diagnostic facilities here are amazing. For those with access. Those who don't have access just get sicker and sicker, and far more expensive in the long run.

The Kardashians have to do with our culture, to which I referred. That one takes a little thinking, I'll try to keep it more simple from here on out.

You appear to be defending the status quo, apparently happy to spend far more on medical care than you need to be, paying for those who cannot. I'm not.

.

Who doesnt have access to diagnostic facilities? I want names.
It takes more than a little thinking to conflate the Kardashians, who appear to be nothing if not in the prime of health, with health problems caused by poor lifestyle choices. But critical thinking was never the strong point of the Left.
So you want to let people who cannot afford health care die? This appears to be what you are saying.
For me, Id like to see decisions pushed on to the individual with appropriate financial rewards and punishments for making the wrong ones. About the way car insurance is sold.

 

[The Rabbi]

Ryan's a fraud. He's hoping no one notices that he wants to end Medicare to achieve...the same spending growth targets Obama has already achieved.

The VP slot calls for competence and experience, not an ideologue whose purpose is to keep the base interested.

You keep repeating those lies.
Ryan is among the most competent and experienced members of Congress. He actually understands the budget. Obama can't even get one passed.

That's basically lie within a lie. The budgets that don't get passed..don't get passed because Republicans put poison pills into them that make it impossible to vote on.

Ryan's an ideologue and not a very good one. He's voted on many bills that were unpopular with the Tea Party. Additionally, his "new" found faith is a sham. He's an acolyte of Ayn Rand.

This whole "lie" that they are telling about Medicare is a doozy too. Obama didn't "steal" anything. What he did, was something Republicans have been braying about for years..and it pissed off their contributors from the HMOs and big Pharma. He made the payment structure much more efficient and used the saving to strengthen Medicare and fund ObamaCare.

What Ryan wants to do is simple. Kill social programs and fund private defense contractors.

That's it.

So even when Demcrats controlled both houses of Congress and still couldnt get a budget passed that was somehow the GOP's fault?
Your thinking skills have eroded further. Now you are just puking phrases word salad style.

 

[Pheonixops]

The debates will be interestng. Romney is not used to using a teleprompter. He thinks standing up. Obama reads standing up. Looking forward to the October debates minus teleprompter moments.

Ryan is quite a guy, isn't he! Yes, I hope he can influence our economic policy and will be at the helm!

Oh so you are in favor of his votes on these items?

The issue Ryan is most known for is his interest in cutting the deficit and balancing the budget.

But why did the Congressman vote to bail out the auto industry, to pass the Medicare package to the tune of $400 billion, and to nationalize education via No Child Left Behind?

Paul Ryan on Bailouts and Government Stimuli
-Voted YES on TARP (2008)
-Voted YES on Economic Stimulus HR 5140 (2008)
-Voted YES on $15B bailout for GM and Chrysler. (Dec 2008)
-Voted YES on $192B additional anti-recession stimulus spending. (Jul 2009)

Paul Ryan on Entitlement Programs
-Voted YES on limited prescription drug benefit for Medicare recipients. (Nov 2003)
-Voted YES on providing $70 million for Section 8 Housing vouchers. (Jun 2006)
-Voted YES on extending unemployment benefits from 39 weeks to 59 weeks. (Oct 2008)
-Voted YES on Head Start Act (2007)

Paul Ryan on Education
Rep. Ryan went along with the Bush Administration in supporting more federal involvement in education. This is contrary to the traditional Republican position, which included support for abolition of the Department of Education and decreasing federal involvement in education.

-Voted YES on No Child Left Behind Act (2001)

So you rpoint is that Ryan is really a Democrat?
So why did Obama call him "the ideological leader of the GOP"?
Which one of you is lying, you or Obama?

Well Rabbi, I didn't say that he was a democrat, my point is that he pretty much voted YES on the very things the conservatives who support him, criticized Obama and the Democrats about.

I don't know why President Obama stated that, why did limbaugh say something similar when the news came out about Ryan being picked? What are you ignorantly asserting that I am "lying" about, Ryan's voting record?

 

[The Rabbi]

So you rpoint is that Ryan is really a Democrat?
So why did Obama call him "the ideological leader of the GOP"?
Which one of you is lying, you or Obama?

Well Rabbi, I didn't say that he was a democrat, my point is that he pretty much voted YES on the very things the conservatives who support him, criticized Obama and the Democrats about.

I don't know why President Obama stated that, why did limbaugh say something similar when the news came out about Ryan being picked? What are you ignorantly asserting that I am "lying" about, Ryan's voting record?

So is Obama lying or are you lying? Obama said Ryan was the ideological leader of the GOP. You say he votes like a Democrat. You can't both be right. One of you is wrong. Which is it?