The Democrat's Dilema for 2012

[Sallow]

Yawn.

Yawn away.

Ex-Arco BP apologist Joe Barton is heading up the Energy commission.

To bring it to your level obama is run by SEIU, other labor unions, and George Soros

Barton use to work for BP.

Cheney use to work for Haliburton.

Which commission was headed up by an ex-SEIU guy?

And when was Soros, elected to anything?

 

[Londoner]

Demand is measured by how much consumers spend.

When consumers have sufficient income and financial security, they spend more.

During the postwar years, a significant portion of the profits that came into the country were directed by government to the middle class. Workers had high wages, heath care, retirement security, affordable education, and cheap energy.

That is, workers had money to spend. Ergo Demand, which demand caused corporations to reinvest and add jobs in order to capture said demand. Win win.

Starting in the 70s, the amazing postwar growth waned, and profits started to shrink. Business mobilized behind Ronald Reagan, who was sent to Washington to lower their operating costs, i.e., cheaper labor, fewer regulations, and lower taxes.

Business was sick of paying for a high wage, entitlement-fed middle class.

Put simply, the Great Postwar Middle Class became a drag on the omnivorous demand for high profits and lower operating costs. "Leave it to Beaver Nation", indeed the very "hot dog and apple pie" backdrop of many Reagan films, was about to be destroyed.

So we spent 30 years getting rid of middle class support programs, including the secure wage-&-benefit structure that accompanied it. Cutting these programs allowed us to give massive tax cuts to the wealthy, which was always the point. Reagan promised that the tax cuts would trickle down in the form of solid jobs. When this failed to happen, we started fueling the economy with credit, along with turning Wall Street into a speculative carnival, creating phantom wealth from an endless series of bubbles and outright ponzi schemes. [Rather than investing into the real economy, the Bush tax cuts ended up -- overwhelmingly -- in the speculative carnival]

(Why create American jobs when you can pay pennies for Asia labor?)

Point is: for 25+ years demand was created not by solid fundamentals (high paying jobs with solid benefits), but...credit. [Why do you think you get 3 credit card offers a week? Because America started handing out Master Cards when the money failed to trickle down to the consumption classes. Welcome to the Reagan Revolution: the rich get richer and the middle class goes into debt. What a racket.

(We started loaning the middle class the money it used to make in wages. It was brilliant.)

Of course ... you know how the story ends. We broke the bank.

We now live in a world without middle class demand, but unlike the 70s, we're out of credit. We have no more fake stimuli left -- we even hawked our houses. Meaning: there is no way in 1 million years that corporations are going to vigorously add jobs in our current morass of bankrupted consumers and zombi banks. [Reagan was lucky, because he inherited a middle class with low debt levels, i.e., they were ready to be filled-up. He used this fact in ways that history is only now starting to realize]

Providing tax breaks to millionaires will only ensure that their heirs will live well. Those tax cuts will never find their way down to the real economy. It will take decades for the middle class to recover from 30 years of credit based consumption -- 30 years of not saving for the black hole that lies ahead.

American's have been lied to by a right wing message machine that uses identity politics and boogeymen to distract them from the truth. They don't understand where the great middle class consumption economy came from. It didn't come from ensuring that the suppliers walked away with 90% of the wealth; it came from policies that ensured that productivity gains found their way into the wages and benefits of the workers (consumers). This is what separated us from places like China where large portions of the labor market live in total poverty. Indeed, America claimed moral superiority during the Cold War years because, unlike the 3rd world, we had a thriving middle class (a middle class that business was getting sick of supporting).

It's over people. You got punk'd in 1980. We have passed the point of no return. You have witnessed a successful Coup D'etat. Once you learn the affect of neoliberalism on the middle class, you will be able to perform the autopsy. If you don't learn what I am saying, you will continue to trust the very monster which destroyed the country.

 

[Sarah G]

With the people of this country sending a message to Washington and the Obama administration the democrats are now in a serious predicament.

On the one hand they have to keep their base happy. If they don't they may not get a good enough turnout to take back seats or hold their current status in 2012

On the other hand if they are seen as obstructing legislation that the new republican house tries to pass as a result of the mandate the voters just gave them they will surely lose even more seats in 2012.


So how do they balance keeping their base happy while not appearing to obstruct the wishes of the people who voted in a republican majority in the house.

What do you think the dems should do? Walk a tightrope, play to the base, or concede to the republicans on the big issues such as reversing obamacare and spending cuts?



Dont get me wrong the republicans face a similar problem. They can't let the democrat administration in the white house and majority in the senate make it appear that they "didn't do anything" in the next year and a half before 2012 begins in earnest. If that is the perception then they will be voted back out again.

I think they should and will take each thing as it comes, communicate everything clearly and lay the plan of attack on the table. Then let the American people decide who they want in government next election. Just like they did this time.

Congress and the president will learn or they will leave.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Devnell your dense man.

Do you even pay attention? U.S. Stocks Rise After Fed Announces More Treasury Purchases - BusinessWeek

Hello?!?!?! We are fucked.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I think they should and will take each thing as it comes, communicate everything clearly and lay the plan of attack on the table. Then let the American people decide who they want in government next election. Just like they did this time.

Congress and the president will learn or they will leave.

what?

 

[Sarah G]

I think they should and will take each thing as it comes, communicate everything clearly and lay the plan of attack on the table. Then let the American people decide who they want in government next election. Just like they did this time.

Congress and the president will learn or they will leave.

what?

You have to look for the Chi when all hope seems lost..

 

[The Rabbi]

Who gives a shit about the Dems dilemma? Or the GOP's dilemma? The dilemma you describe is how each party can do as little as possible yet still hang onto or gain more power.

The real dilemma is how to turn around a $1.3 trillion dollar budget deficit ............ together.

Cancel Obamacare, close down unnecessary military bases overseas, stop givind aid to foreign countries, raise import tariffs, put an export tax on grains that we feed the world with, stop bailing out companies with tax money, stop printing money to purchase debt, stop passing defecit budgets

Its not really rocket science is it?

Obamacare isn't part of the $1.3 trillion dollar deficit. Repealing does nothing to the current budget.

How much does closing bases save? Do we downsize the military along with it? What happens then?

How much does cutting foreign aid save? Does this include military funding we give to Israel or money we give to countries like Egypt to keep them from attacking Israel? What are the reprecussions of these actions?

How much revenue can we take in from tariffs? Wont those tariffs just get "passed onto the consumers?" Who does that hurt? What happens when other countries put tariffs on or increasing current tariffs on good we are exporting?

How much revenue can we generate with an "export tax on grains that we feed the world with?"

Are bailouts and TARP part of the current $1.3 trillion dollar deficit? News to me.

The whole idea is to not pass a budget with a deficit ...

You got some good ideas but I'm not feeling anything near $1.3 trillion in cuts there.

You didnt just admit that taxes on business get passed on to the consumer, did you??

 

[The Rabbi]

Yawn away.

Ex-Arco BP apologist Joe Barton is heading up the Energy commission.

To bring it to your level obama is run by SEIU, other labor unions, and George Soros

Barton use to work for BP.

Cheney use to work for Haliburton.

Which commission was headed up by an ex-SEIU guy?

And when was Soros, elected to anything?

What office does Cheney hold?
The Democratic Party is a tool of the unions and Wall St. Obama cannot offend his masters there. He is the president from Quantum Fund, no tthe United States of America.

 

[Article 15]

Cancel Obamacare, close down unnecessary military bases overseas, stop givind aid to foreign countries, raise import tariffs, put an export tax on grains that we feed the world with, stop bailing out companies with tax money, stop printing money to purchase debt, stop passing defecit budgets

Its not really rocket science is it?

Obamacare isn't part of the $1.3 trillion dollar deficit. Repealing does nothing to the current budget.

How much does closing bases save? Do we downsize the military along with it? What happens then?

How much does cutting foreign aid save? Does this include military funding we give to Israel or money we give to countries like Egypt to keep them from attacking Israel? What are the reprecussions of these actions?

How much revenue can we take in from tariffs? Wont those tariffs just get "passed onto the consumers?" Who does that hurt? What happens when other countries put tariffs on or increasing current tariffs on good we are exporting?

How much revenue can we generate with an "export tax on grains that we feed the world with?"

Are bailouts and TARP part of the current $1.3 trillion dollar deficit? News to me.

The whole idea is to not pass a budget with a deficit ...

You got some good ideas but I'm not feeling anything near $1.3 trillion in cuts there.

You didnt just admit that taxes on business get passed on to the consumer, did you??

Where have I ever claimed otherwise?

 

[The Rabbi]

Obamacare isn't part of the $1.3 trillion dollar deficit. Repealing does nothing to the current budget.

How much does closing bases save? Do we downsize the military along with it? What happens then?

How much does cutting foreign aid save? Does this include military funding we give to Israel or money we give to countries like Egypt to keep them from attacking Israel? What are the reprecussions of these actions?

How much revenue can we take in from tariffs? Wont those tariffs just get "passed onto the consumers?" Who does that hurt? What happens when other countries put tariffs on or increasing current tariffs on good we are exporting?

How much revenue can we generate with an "export tax on grains that we feed the world with?"

Are bailouts and TARP part of the current $1.3 trillion dollar deficit? News to me.

The whole idea is to not pass a budget with a deficit ...

You got some good ideas but I'm not feeling anything near $1.3 trillion in cuts there.

You didnt just admit that taxes on business get passed on to the consumer, did you??

Where have I ever claimed otherwise?

Where did I say you had?

But if that's the case then surely you support lowering the corporate tax rate to something more competitive with what the rest of the world charges. Right?

 

[Article 15]

The fact that you focused on that instead of actually addressing the substantvie questions in the post, however, is unsurprising.

 

[Article 15]

You didnt just admit that taxes on business get passed on to the consumer, did you??

Where have I ever claimed otherwise?

Where did I say you had?

But if that's the case then surely you support lowering the corporate tax rate to something more competitive with what the rest of the world charges. Right?

No, not at all. I want to keep them where they are now and then raise them when the economy improves. I want to raise income taxes too.

 

[The Rabbi]

Where have I ever claimed otherwise?

Where did I say you had?

But if that's the case then surely you support lowering the corporate tax rate to something more competitive with what the rest of the world charges. Right?

No, not at all. I want to keep them where they are now and then raise them when the economy improves. I want to raise income taxes too.

Because economies thrive on high taxes, right?
So you are in favor of higher taxes on people via the corporate tax rate?

 

[Article 15]

Where did I say you had?

But if that's the case then surely you support lowering the corporate tax rate to something more competitive with what the rest of the world charges. Right?

No, not at all. I want to keep them where they are now and then raise them when the economy improves. I want to raise income taxes too.

Because economies thrive on high taxes, right?
So you are in favor of higher taxes on people via the corporate tax rate?

Did I studder?

A 13 trillion dollar debt aint gonna get paid off on it's own.

 

[The Rabbi]

No, not at all. I want to keep them where they are now and then raise them when the economy improves. I want to raise income taxes too.

Because economies thrive on high taxes, right?
So you are in favor of higher taxes on people via the corporate tax rate?

Did I studder?

A 13 trillion dollar debt aint gonna get paid off on it's own.

Stutter.
You could tax everyone 100% and it still won't get paid off. Throwing the economy in the shitter will not pay the deficit either. Growing the economy will make the deficit manageable, as debt as a percentage of GDP is the only meaningful figure. High corporate taxes discourage economic activity, making the deficit higher as a percentage.

 

[Article 15]

Because economies thrive on high taxes, right?
So you are in favor of higher taxes on people via the corporate tax rate?

Did I studder?

A 13 trillion dollar debt aint gonna get paid off on it's own.

Stutter.
You could tax everyone 100% and it still won't get paid off. Throwing the economy in the shitter will not pay the deficit either. Growing the economy will make the deficit manageable, as debt as a percentage of GDP is the only meaningful figure. High corporate taxes discourage economic activity, making the deficit higher as a percentage.

Oh, so you are cool with the deficit as long as it is "manageable." So I guess I can assume you have no real interest at actually paying down the debt. What a shock.

 

[elvis]

No, not at all. I want to keep them where they are now and then raise them when the economy improves. I want to raise income taxes too.

Because economies thrive on high taxes, right?
So you are in favor of higher taxes on people via the corporate tax rate?

Did I studder?

A 13 trillion dollar debt aint gonna get paid off on it's own.

you watch the Breakfast club recently or something?

 

[Article 15]

Because economies thrive on high taxes, right?
So you are in favor of higher taxes on people via the corporate tax rate?

Did I studder?

A 13 trillion dollar debt aint gonna get paid off on it's own.

you watch the Breakfast club recently or something?

lol

Maybe ....

 

[elvis]

Did I studder?

A 13 trillion dollar debt aint gonna get paid off on it's own.

you watch the Breakfast club recently or something?

lol

Maybe ....

impregnate any prom queens?

 

[Article 15]

you watch the Breakfast club recently or something?

lol

Maybe ....

impregnate any prom queens?

I wish.