The Definition of A "Christian"

A Christian is someone who believes the Good news that Jesus Christ atoned and died for the world and rose from the dead and becomes His disciple.

I guess I am interested in hearing what those who profess a faith in Jesus feel is involved in 'becoming His disciple'.

(Not that many of you have not been doing just that all along in several of these threads... Thank you and please, carry on.)

-Joe
 
A christian is someone who can't think critically for themselves so they parrot a tired book(s, in avatar's case) written back when humans were in their infancy, and a barely legible book at that.
 
Jesus the man, I admire and respect. The religion built up around him on the other hand, sucks MAJOR ass!!

Cause encouraging people to be humble, patient, kind, cheerful, honest, full of charity is such a bad thing.

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ".

- Mahatma Ghandi

No one is like Christ because we aren't perfect beings. Give us enough time and use of the Atonement and we will be like Him.


"There was only 1 true Christian, and he died on a cross 2,000 years ago".

- Frederich Nietzsche

This, of course, is blatantly wrong. Christ, by definition, can't be His own disciple.
 
A Christian, in my opinion, is anyone who follows the purported teachings and imitates the mannerisms of Jesus Christ, AS, as recorded in the Gospels. This definition would obviously not include most prominent "Christian" leaders or fringe lunatics like the Westboro Baptist Church.
 
I had a Christian friend tell me tonight that the best definition of a Christian was someone who sincerely believed that he was absolutely wrong about his faith in Jesus.

I said (and I quote) "What the fuck?!?!"

He said, "Yeah, a true Christian is someone who loves his fellow man enough to sincerely hope that he is wrong about his faith because if he is wrong, then everyone he knows who doesn't know and accept Jesus gets a pass, but if he is right, then everyone he knows who doesn't know and accept Jesus goes to hell to burn forever. Therefore, if a Christian is true to the concept of 'love' (willingness to lay your life down for a friend), he sincerely hopes he is wrong about the Gospel, and everyone just dies, or gets to the next level on their own merit and the concept of 'hell' is rendered moot."

Is this true? Can love actually transcend the bullshit?

Please don't flame this one - I really want to know if love can possibly be this selfless and powerful.

-Joe

As a Born again Christian, I believe that a true believer prays that God will make a way for all people, not because they feel sorry for them, but because they truly love them with the love that God has placed in their hearts. It is like hoping that you are wrong, but actually it is believing God at any cost, knowing in your heart that God ia the Almighty.

True believers believe the Scriptures, and if we understand it completely and correctly, the idea of Hell is real and eternal. I believe we can pray, and even hope that we might have it understood wrongly, not that the scriptures are wrong, just our understanding of them.

We can pray that, however, in order to do as God has commanded we must believe there is a fire, and that we must warn everyone. If the Holy Spirit reveals with new clarity that we have understood it incorrectly, there will most certainly be something more to it than "we just die and that is the end," or "there really is no Hell, and everyonr gets a pass."

I have personally thought a lot about this, and my love for humanity, and life causes me to pray that there is something missing in our understanding. I will continue to follow my faith in the scriptures the way I understand them until God reveals with more clarity that there is really something else in the plan. Even a second chance after death would be nice. I believe God is a God of second chances, but AI also believe He is just and righteous in all of His plans.

Hope I have been clear enough for you to understand.
 
As a Born again Christian, I believe that a true believer prays that God will make a way for all people, not because they feel sorry for them, but because they truly love them with the love that God has placed in their hearts. It is like hoping that you are wrong, but actually it is believing God at any cost, knowing in your heart that God ia the Almighty.

I was up to you until the "It is like hoping you are wrong" part.

If your faith makes you hope you are wrong, there is something wrong with it. It should make you rejoice that you are right.


True believers believe the Scriptures, and if we understand it completely and correctly, the idea of Hell is real and eternal. I believe we can pray, and even hope that we might have it understood wrongly, not that the scriptures are wrong, just our understanding of them.

Thats the problem. Most people dont understand hell at all. Even most Christians have no clue what Eternal Punishment really consists of. I know I dont have much of a clue other than its not anything like it's commonly depicted in culture.

We can pray that, however, in order to do as God has commanded we must believe there is a fire, and that we must warn everyone. If the Holy Spirit reveals with new clarity that we have understood it incorrectly, there will most certainly be something more to it than "we just die and that is the end," or "there really is no Hell, and everyonr gets a pass."

Ive never been convinced that God wants us to preach Eternal Damnation to anyone. In fact, the scriptures indicate the exact opposite. We are supposed to preach the Good news. That death is not the end. That we can change

I have personally thought a lot about this, and my love for humanity, and life causes me to pray that there is something missing in our understanding. I will continue to follow my faith in the scriptures the way I understand them until God reveals with more clarity that there is really something else in the plan. Even a second chance after death would be nice. I believe God is a God of second chances, but AI also believe He is just and righteous in all of His plans.

Dont put faith in the scriptures. Put faith in Christ. That's what the scriptures teach. I fear there are too many people who exalt the scriptures to such a station that they miss the Savior when He stands above them. Christ criticized the Pharisees for doing that here:

39 ¶ Ye search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

41 I receive not honour from men.

42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.

43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? (John 5:39-47)

They were too caught up with what they thought the scriptures said that they missed the literal fulfillment in front of their eyes. I think alot of people are like that nowadays as well. I doubt the only people in the world to ever be like that are the Pharisees.

As for second chances, I think ill quote Paul:

19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. (1 Cor 15:19)

I think we would be foolish to limit our hope in the power of Christ to this life only. As Paul says, we would be most miserable. I think that would be because if our hope is truly thus limited, there are billions of people who will die never knowing the Plan of Happiness with no chance at Redemption. I believe God is just and merciful to all His children. Not just the ones who lived at the right time and place.

Hope I have been clear enough for you to understand.

You have. I hope you haven't taken any offense to what I've said. Because none was meant. I simply disagree in a few areas.
 
I had a Christian friend tell me tonight that the best definition of a Christian was someone who sincerely believed that he was absolutely wrong about his faith in Jesus.

I said (and I quote) "What the fuck?!?!"

He said, "Yeah, a true Christian is someone who loves his fellow man enough to sincerely hope that he is wrong about his faith because if he is wrong, then everyone he knows who doesn't know and accept Jesus gets a pass, but if he is right, then everyone he knows who doesn't know and accept Jesus goes to hell to burn forever. Therefore, if a Christian is true to the concept of 'love' (willingness to lay your life down for a friend), he sincerely hopes he is wrong about the Gospel, and everyone just dies, or gets to the next level on their own merit and the concept of 'hell' is rendered moot."

Is this true? Can love actually transcend the bullshit?

Please don't flame this one - I really want to know if love can possibly be this selfless and powerful.

-Joe

As a Born again Christian, I believe that a true believer prays that God will make a way for all people, not because they feel sorry for them, but because they truly love them with the love that God has placed in their hearts. It is like hoping that you are wrong, but actually it is believing God at any cost, knowing in your heart that God ia the Almighty.

True believers believe the Scriptures, and if we understand it completely and correctly, the idea of Hell is real and eternal. I believe we can pray, and even hope that we might have it understood wrongly, not that the scriptures are wrong, just our understanding of them.

We can pray that, however, in order to do as God has commanded we must believe there is a fire, and that we must warn everyone. If the Holy Spirit reveals with new clarity that we have understood it incorrectly, there will most certainly be something more to it than "we just die and that is the end," or "there really is no Hell, and everyonr gets a pass."

I have personally thought a lot about this, and my love for humanity, and life causes me to pray that there is something missing in our understanding. I will continue to follow my faith in the scriptures the way I understand them until God reveals with more clarity that there is really something else in the plan. Even a second chance after death would be nice. I believe God is a God of second chances, but AI also believe He is just and righteous in all of His plans.

Hope I have been clear enough for you to understand.

It is a pretty clear presentation of part of the 'gospel' message and a pretty clear presentation of your views on the matter. Thank you.

It still begs the question though: Are there any Christians out there who understand agape love (the willingness to lay ones life on the line for another) enough to hope, at great personal sacrifice, that Christian teachings about Heaven and Hell are wrong.

-Joe
 
I had a Christian friend tell me tonight that the best definition of a Christian was someone who sincerely believed that he was absolutely wrong about his faith in Jesus.

I said (and I quote) "What the fuck?!?!"

He said, "Yeah, a true Christian is someone who loves his fellow man enough to sincerely hope that he is wrong about his faith because if he is wrong, then everyone he knows who doesn't know and accept Jesus gets a pass, but if he is right, then everyone he knows who doesn't know and accept Jesus goes to hell to burn forever. Therefore, if a Christian is true to the concept of 'love' (willingness to lay your life down for a friend), he sincerely hopes he is wrong about the Gospel, and everyone just dies, or gets to the next level on their own merit and the concept of 'hell' is rendered moot."

Is this true? Can love actually transcend the bullshit?

Please don't flame this one - I really want to know if love can possibly be this selfless and powerful.

-Joe

As a Born again Christian, I believe that a true believer prays that God will make a way for all people, not because they feel sorry for them, but because they truly love them with the love that God has placed in their hearts. It is like hoping that you are wrong, but actually it is believing God at any cost, knowing in your heart that God ia the Almighty.

True believers believe the Scriptures, and if we understand it completely and correctly, the idea of Hell is real and eternal. I believe we can pray, and even hope that we might have it understood wrongly, not that the scriptures are wrong, just our understanding of them.

We can pray that, however, in order to do as God has commanded we must believe there is a fire, and that we must warn everyone. If the Holy Spirit reveals with new clarity that we have understood it incorrectly, there will most certainly be something more to it than "we just die and that is the end," or "there really is no Hell, and everyonr gets a pass."

I have personally thought a lot about this, and my love for humanity, and life causes me to pray that there is something missing in our understanding. I will continue to follow my faith in the scriptures the way I understand them until God reveals with more clarity that there is really something else in the plan. Even a second chance after death would be nice. I believe God is a God of second chances, but AI also believe He is just and righteous in all of His plans.

Hope I have been clear enough for you to understand.

It is a pretty clear presentation of part of the 'gospel' message and a pretty clear presentation of your views on the matter. Thank you.

It still begs the question though: Are there any Christians out there who understand agape love (the willingness to lay ones life on the line for another) enough to hope, at great personal sacrifice, that Christian teachings about Heaven and Hell are wrong.

-Joe

IMHO, there have been many instances where a person was willing to lay down their lives to protect the lives of others.

Anyone not believing this should just check the records of many whom have gotten their military awards posthumously.

This also goes for everyday citizens, law enforcement officers, firemen, and others, of whom we may never hear.
 
As a Born again Christian, I believe that a true believer prays that God will make a way for all people, not because they feel sorry for them, but because they truly love them with the love that God has placed in their hearts. It is like hoping that you are wrong, but actually it is believing God at any cost, knowing in your heart that God ia the Almighty.

True believers believe the Scriptures, and if we understand it completely and correctly, the idea of Hell is real and eternal. I believe we can pray, and even hope that we might have it understood wrongly, not that the scriptures are wrong, just our understanding of them.

We can pray that, however, in order to do as God has commanded we must believe there is a fire, and that we must warn everyone. If the Holy Spirit reveals with new clarity that we have understood it incorrectly, there will most certainly be something more to it than "we just die and that is the end," or "there really is no Hell, and everyonr gets a pass."

I have personally thought a lot about this, and my love for humanity, and life causes me to pray that there is something missing in our understanding. I will continue to follow my faith in the scriptures the way I understand them until God reveals with more clarity that there is really something else in the plan. Even a second chance after death would be nice. I believe God is a God of second chances, but AI also believe He is just and righteous in all of His plans.

Hope I have been clear enough for you to understand.

It is a pretty clear presentation of part of the 'gospel' message and a pretty clear presentation of your views on the matter. Thank you.

It still begs the question though: Are there any Christians out there who understand agape love (the willingness to lay ones life on the line for another) enough to hope, at great personal sacrifice, that Christian teachings about Heaven and Hell are wrong.

-Joe

IMHO, there have been many instances where a person was willing to lay down their lives to protect the lives of others.

Anyone not believing this should just check the records of many whom have gotten their military awards posthumously.

This also goes for everyday citizens, law enforcement officers, firemen, and others, of whom we may never hear.

No disagreement here. Heros and heroic lives being lived on this planet are certainly not a myth.

The question however is not about laying down a physical life for ones fellow men, the question is about laying ones spiritual life on the line. Kind of the flip side of "You might as well be a Christian, because if death proves they are right, you go to heaven and if death proves they are wrong, no harm done 'cause you're dead, and you probably led a better life for your religion anyway."

-Joe
 
I had a Christian friend tell me tonight that the best definition of a Christian was someone who sincerely believed that he was absolutely wrong about his faith in Jesus.

I said (and I quote) "What the fuck?!?!"

He said, "Yeah, a true Christian is someone who loves his fellow man enough to sincerely hope that he is wrong about his faith because if he is wrong, then everyone he knows who doesn't know and accept Jesus gets a pass, but if he is right, then everyone he knows who doesn't know and accept Jesus goes to hell to burn forever. Therefore, if a Christian is true to the concept of 'love' (willingness to lay your life down for a friend), he sincerely hopes he is wrong about the Gospel, and everyone just dies, or gets to the next level on their own merit and the concept of 'hell' is rendered moot."

Is this true? Can love actually transcend the bullshit?

Please don't flame this one - I really want to know if love can possibly be this selfless and powerful.

-Joe


A true Christian is someone who sincerly follow the Bible teaching.
 
Quote:
"There was only 1 true Christian, and he died on a cross 2,000 years ago".

- Frederich Nietzsche

There was only 1 true Fredrich Nietzsche and he died from siphilis, Aug. 25, 1900
 
As a Born again Christian, I believe that a true believer prays that God will make a way for all people, not because they feel sorry for them, but because they truly love them with the love that God has placed in their hearts. It is like hoping that you are wrong, but actually it is believing God at any cost, knowing in your heart that God ia the Almighty.

I was up to you until the "It is like hoping you are wrong" part.

If your faith makes you hope you are wrong, there is something wrong with it. It should make you rejoice that you are right.


I said it is "like" hoping you are wroing, not that I hope I am wrong. We can certainly hope for good in all parts of our life. We live by faith, not hope or wishes. That is why we preach Hell as it is wriotten. It is because we grow in our faith that we continue to learn more about what God has planned. We are very limited in our knowledge of the Scriptures and all that God has in store. We do have hope, and that is in Christ. Hope is all about the unseen. That is why it is about faith.



True believers believe the Scriptures, and if we understand it completely and correctly, the idea of Hell is real and eternal. I believe we can pray, and even hope that we might have it understood wrongly, not that the scriptures are wrong, just our understanding of them.

Thats the problem. Most people dont understand hell at all. Even most Christians have no clue what Eternal Punishment really consists of. I know I dont have much of a clue other than its not anything like it's commonly depicted in culture.

We would be a little arrogant if we admit we don't have a clue and then say that others are wrong.



Ive never been convinced that God wants us to preach Eternal Damnation to anyone. In fact, the scriptures indicate the exact opposite. We are supposed to preach the Good news. That death is not the end. That we can change.

Dont put faith in the scriptures. Put faith in Christ. That's what the scriptures teach. I fear there are too many people who exalt the scriptures to such a station that they miss the Savior when He stands above them. Christ criticized the Pharisees for doing that here:

It is because of the true believer's faith in Christ, that we can hold faith in the Word. Do make it legalism is sin, and that is what the Pharisees diid. Romans 8: 16 says, "I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto Salvation... "Faith in Christ and the Scriptures work together. Proverbs 3:5-6 says, "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not to your own understanding. Acknowledge Him in all that you do, and He will direct your paths." This is done through the Scriptures.



They were too caught up with what they thought the scriptures said that they missed the literal fulfillment in front of their eyes. I think alot of people are like that nowadays as well. I doubt the only people in the world to ever be like that are the Pharisees.

While it is very true that many in the church arew there without a true faith, you must remember that they are there for a religion. It is not about the local church, ir is all about a relationship with Christ. In a true relationship with Christ, the Word can be illuminated. Without that true relationship the scriptures are just information to most people.

As for second chances, I think ill quote Paul:

19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. (1 Cor 15:19)

I think we would be foolish to limit our hope in the power of Christ to this life only. As Paul says, we would be most miserable. I think that would be because if our hope is truly thus limited, there are billions of people who will die never knowing the Plan of Happiness with no chance at Redemption. I believe God is just and merciful to all His children. Not just the ones who lived at the right time and place.

In that scripture Paul is saying that if we only have hope for this life, and it does not extend into eternity, we are miserable. Our hope is about eternity, and it includes this life as well.

Hope I have been clear enough for you to understand.

You have. I hope you haven't taken any offense to what I've said. Because none was meant. I simply disagree in a few areas.

I think it is great when we can disagree, and hope not to be offensive. I take it all as a great discussion.
 
I'm not entirely sure that the Christian religion actually believes that sinners go to hell.

ACtually I think that interpretation is just that...an interpretation, but not something that was ever actually clearly stated.


Anyone have any New Testament RED TEXT passages which support the theory that Jesus said non believers go to hell?
The word Jesus used in speaking about this was condemned. "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." In Him there is no condemnation. He is speaking of the spirit and the soul.

John - Chapter 3 goes on to explain.....6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." 18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." 36 "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."


Word search in the Bible - hell

Jesus did speak of hell. "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.

Capernaum = "village of comfort"

1) a flourishing city of Galilee situated on the western shore of the Sea of Galilee or Lake of Gennesaret, near the place where the Jordan flows into the lake
 
A 'true' Christian is a mythological creature who [sincerely] believe and follows the --B-i-b-l-e-- New Testament teachings, without regards to logical consistency with the texts upon which it is built.

In My Humble Opinion

BY THE DEFINITION THAT A CHRISTIAN FOLLOWS 'CHRIST' AND IS TO BE 'CHRISTLIKE' PER THE BIBLICAL TEACHING, AND THE SIMPLE FACT THAT THE NT AND THE OT ARE CONTRADICTORY AND MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE WITH THE PRINCIPLES OF THE RELIGION


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In My Humble Opinion

BY THE DEFINITION THAT A CHRISTIAN FOLLOWS 'CHRIST' AND IS TO BE 'CHRISTLIKE' PER THE BIBLICAL TEACHING, AND THE SIMPLE FACT THAT THE NT AND THE OT ARE CONTRADICTORY AND MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE WITH THE PRINCIPLES OF THE RELIGION YET ONLY TO THOSE WHO FAIL TO RECOGNIZE THAT THE OLD TESTAMENT AND NEW TESTAMENT HAVE WORDS AND MEANINGS THAT THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND NOR CARE TO UNDERSTAND


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A christian is a mental midget who needs to be told what to think and when.

Al, one of the best things about being an American is that you can even ignore advice that you have solicited, so just imagine what you can do with this advice:

Flames outside the 'Flame Zone' don't do anything but make the flamer look petty, desperate and ignorant.


-Joe
 
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Hey, get your own damn color, or you're just being dishonest ;)

THOSE WHO FAIL TO RECOGNIZE THAT THE OLD TESTAMENT AND NEW TESTAMENT HAVE WORDS AND MEANINGS THAT THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND NOR CARE TO UNDERSTAND
Actually, no. It's quite simply, really. If god is 'perfect' then god must be unchanging, since the one and inly true perfect nature of such a being would cease to be so if it were to change- as it does several times

Also, god's law is shown between to NT and OT to be flawed, imperfect, and in need of changer
 

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