The Debt Ceiling, Spending, and Fearless Leaders

[Foxfyre]

Yesterday there were some lackluster headlines that Bonior was 'ready to negotiate' on that pesky raising the debt limit thing.

Well they didn't.

US government hits the debt ceiling
By Peter Schroeder - 05/16/11 08:32 PM ET

The U.S. government officially hit the federal debt limit Monday, prompting the Treasury Department to invoke new measures to prevent a default.

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner tapped into two government employee pension funds to free up cash, and warned in a letter to congressional leaders of “catastrophic economic consequences” if the ceiling is not hiked.

Though Geithner’s language was stark, his announcement lent little urgency to talks on raising the debt limit.

Negotiators led by Vice President Biden will not meet this week. And with the House on recess, and with Geithner saying U.S. borrowing authority would not be exhausted until Aug. 2, lawmakers and the White House have an 11-week timeframe to work out a deal.
US government hits the debt ceiling - TheHill.com

Makes you wonder how many more 'creative' manuvers will be used to avoid dealing with the issue? And how serious a crisis is it anyway when those negotiating a deal aren't even going to meet this week?

and PLEASE. Somebody explain to me how our fearless leaders HAVE to raise the debt limit and will do so if everybody agrees to cut spending.

If they cut spending, why do they need to raise the debt limit?

Does anybody besides me smell a rat here?

 

[8537]

if they don't want to raise the debt limit they'd need to cut current FY spending by about 50%.

Short of collapse, that's simply not possible.

 

[Foxfyre]

if they don't want to raise the debt limit they'd need to cut current FY spending by about 50%.

Short of collapse, that's simply not possible.

Why?

 

[8537]

if they don't want to raise the debt limit they'd need to cut current FY spending by about 50%.

Short of collapse, that's simply not possible.

Why?

Because you'd either have to:

Cease all military operations worldwide and stop paying alll military personnel + end all discretionary spending - including DHS, NASA (Nevermind the guys up in space at the moment - we can't afford to keep an eye on them), The TSA etc....

Or...

End all payment to SS recipients and end all Medicare benefits + cut some discretionary spending.

Either of those would be immensely contractionary, nevermind the other problems it would cause.

 

[Avorysuds]

if they don't want to raise the debt limit they'd need to cut current FY spending by about 50%.

Short of collapse, that's simply not possible.

Why?

Because you'd either have to:

Cease all military operations worldwide and stop paying alll military personnel + end all discretionary spending - including DHS, NASA (Nevermind the guys up in space at the moment - we can't afford to keep an eye on them), The TSA etc....

Or...

End all payment to SS recipients and end all Medicare benefits + cut some discretionary spending.

Either of those would be immensely contractionary, nevermind the other problems it would cause.

Why not a mix of both with a goal of fully ending both?

 

[8537]

Why?

Because you'd either have to:

Cease all military operations worldwide and stop paying alll military personnel + end all discretionary spending - including DHS, NASA (Nevermind the guys up in space at the moment - we can't afford to keep an eye on them), The TSA etc....

Or...

End all payment to SS recipients and end all Medicare benefits + cut some discretionary spending.

Either of those would be immensely contractionary, nevermind the other problems it would cause.

Why not a mix of both with a goal of fully ending both?

So, starting next month you want to shut down 50% of the military, end 50% of SS payments and 50% of Medicare payments and cut 50% of the budgets of every discretionary line item?

It's one thing to endorse spending cuts. That's a valuable discussion. It's another to endorse immediate cuts that would send our economy into a prolonged contraction and threaten our position in the world.

 

[007]

There was a headline on Drudge yesterday that said that America borrows $58,000 a SECOND!!

If you or I max out our credit card, we HAVE to stop spending and start PAYING IT OFF. THAT is what our government HAS to do. The culture of SPEND, SPEND, SPEND LIKE THE WIND... **HAS** to end, period.

No raising the debt limit. Cut spending, and do it NOW!

START WITH OBAMACARE.

 

[Wiseacre]

We don't have any fearless leaders, let's clear that up right now.

If we didn't raise the debt ceiling there would bre a strong likelyhood the economy would tank. I think decisive measures are needed, but not that extreme. It took awhile to get into this mess, we should take awhile to get out of it without undue stress and strain on people.

 

[Truthmatters]

The cons will never vote to not raise the debt ceiling.

It would be the death of their party

 

[8537]

The cons will never vote to not raise the debt ceiling.

It would be the death of their party

I think many will vote against it- they'll just get together and figure out how many can vote against it while ensuring it still passes, then dole out those "no" votes to people in districts where bullshit buys votes.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Raise the debt ceiling???

You may as well call your bank up and say: "yeah I know I maxed out my card and I can't pay this debt off but I need more credit because I need to buy shit."

What the fuck is wrong with people???

NO the federal government cant borrow any more money, NO the federal government shouldn't be spending ANY more money...

 

[Foxfyre]

if they don't want to raise the debt limit they'd need to cut current FY spending by about 50%.

Short of collapse, that's simply not possible.

Why?

Because you'd either have to:

Cease all military operations worldwide and stop paying alll military personnel + end all discretionary spending - including DHS, NASA (Nevermind the guys up in space at the moment - we can't afford to keep an eye on them), The TSA etc....

Or...

End all payment to SS recipients and end all Medicare benefits + cut some discretionary spending.

Either of those would be immensely contractionary, nevermind the other problems it would cause.

I'm sorry, but I simply don't believe there is no way to cut spending sufficiently to avoid defaulting on obligations or putting people in jeopardy.

Let's start by eliminating the pension and health plans for members of Congress and let them finance their own. They're making an adequate salary that they can do that and they are all becoming multi millionaires on our dime.

Let's privatize the health insurance and pension funds for all federal employees.

Let's eliminate all Congressional expense accounts for decorating and refurbishing Congressional offices and instead require them to use up the hundreds of acres of barely used furniture and equipment gathering dust because every new Congressperson gets all new stuff.

Let's close every single government office that does not HAVE to remain open to fulfill constitutional obligations.

Let's start selling off massive tracts of federal land that isn't being used for anything contributing to the general welfare.

Let's cancel EVERY unexpended allocation for EVERYTHING that does not absolutely HAVE to be spent including all grant monies, scholarship funds, pork barrel earmarks, and everything else that can be eliminated.

And once we are down to the bare bones of what we Constitutionally have to do, THEN if the debt ceiling has to be temporarily raised okay. But until they do that. . . .we're just giving the college kid a brand new credit card every time he irresponsibly maxes out the old one.

 

[Mr.Nick]

The cons will never vote to not raise the debt ceiling.

It would be the death of their party

When we financially collapse it will be death to you.

What is it about economics liberals just dont understand???

 

[Mr.Nick]

When you're paying fucking 17.99 for a gallon of milk who the fuck are the libs going to blame???

You know economies cant go bankrupt right??? their currencies just inflate.

What do you believe raising the debt ceiling does???

You're fucking me over people....

 

[xsited1]

if they don't want to raise the debt limit they'd need to cut current FY spending by about 50%.

Short of collapse, that's simply not possible.

Why?

Because you'd either have to:

Cease all military operations worldwide and stop paying alll military personnel + end all discretionary spending - including DHS, NASA (Nevermind the guys up in space at the moment - we can't afford to keep an eye on them), The TSA etc....

Or...

End all payment to SS recipients and end all Medicare benefits + cut some discretionary spending.

Either of those would be immensely contractionary, nevermind the other problems it would cause.

Well, not quite. That's the line you get from the White House: The United States can't afford to default on our debts.

That's true, but refusing to raise the debt limit does not mean defaulting on our debts. The Treasury currently takes in more than enough revenue to pay both the interest and the principal on the debts we currently owe. Here's the point: Once the debt-service bills are paid, there won't be enough money left over to pay for everything else the Obama administration wants to spend money on. You know what the government would have to do then??? Prioritize its expenditures. In other words, send out the SS and our troops' checks first. Other spending would have to wait.

Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner says that not spending money Congress has appropriated is "the same as default." WRONG! It is economizing, which is what you do when you are out of money.

 

[editec]

Have they raided the Government workers pension funds, yet?

There is no limit to the perfidity these gangsters are capable of.

 

[Big Hoss]

Don't raise it at all. If that means the country falls apart then so be it. It's time for a revolution in this country and obviously the morons we elect aren't up to the task of changing this country for the better.

 

[8537]

Why?

Because you'd either have to:

Cease all military operations worldwide and stop paying alll military personnel + end all discretionary spending - including DHS, NASA (Nevermind the guys up in space at the moment - we can't afford to keep an eye on them), The TSA etc....

Or...

End all payment to SS recipients and end all Medicare benefits + cut some discretionary spending.

Either of those would be immensely contractionary, nevermind the other problems it would cause.

I'm sorry, but I simply don't believe there is no way to cut spending sufficiently to avoid defaulting on obligations or putting people in jeopardy.

Then you're not dealing in reality. If we don't raise the debt ceiling, we can either end all discretionary spending and all military spending or....

End all discretionary spending and most SS / Medicare payments.

Or some mix thereof.

 

[8537]

Why?

Because you'd either have to:

Cease all military operations worldwide and stop paying alll military personnel + end all discretionary spending - including DHS, NASA (Nevermind the guys up in space at the moment - we can't afford to keep an eye on them), The TSA etc....

Or...

End all payment to SS recipients and end all Medicare benefits + cut some discretionary spending.

Either of those would be immensely contractionary, nevermind the other problems it would cause.

Well, not quite. That's the line you get from the White House: The United States can't afford to default on our debts.

That's true, but refusing to raise the debt limit does not mean defaulting on our debts. The Treasury currently takes in more than enough revenue to pay both the interest and the principal on the debts we currently owe. Here's the point: Once the debt-service bills are paid, there won't be enough money left over to pay for everything else the Obama administration wants to spend money on.

So, the government will be presented with two options:

1. default on debt. or

2. Cut all defense and discretionary spending or most SS/Medicare and discretionary spending.

That's an invitation to Depression. Buy your ticket and get in line. How many folks you think KBR and Boeing lay off tomorrow if that happens?

 

[8537]

Don't raise it at all. If that means the country falls apart then so be it. It's time for a revolution in this country and obviously the morons we elect aren't up to the task of changing this country for the better.

fuck you.