THE DEATH OF "True" CONSERVATISM

[Seawytch]

Oh we get the idea...and are laughing as a result.

Laugh all you want. Your eternal "reward" awaits you and I feel quite confident that you will not be laughing when you receive it.

Not all morality is religious in nature. And I'm quite confident that whatever the "end" brings, I'll be just fine. See, I've led a very moral life. I've done stuff like serving my country for 20 years, helping the poor and needy, obeying laws, cherishing my children and loving my partner. All good stuff, no?

The jist...women belong in the home, barefoot and pregnant and the only welfare should be corporate welfare. How am I doing so far?

Close but no cigar. Women belong in their proper place, as do men. That's not always "barefoot and pregnant"; but it is definitely not on the masthead of a Fortune 500 company. There should be NO WELFARE OF ANY SORT. Not personal, not international or disaster aid, not corporate.

Women don't belong running companies? How about countries?

Please (and I really do mean, please) tell us what a woman's "proper place" is?



Now, the thing about "welfare" (and I don't mean the ridiculous corporate kind that allows them to make BILLIONS in profit AND be subsidized by the taxpayer) is that it protects a society. When you have a parent facing a starving child, they will do ANYTHING to feed and protect that child. A helping hand to those in need actually prevents crime.

With less petty crimes being committed by people that just wanted to feed their families, we actually have the space and money to lock up those violent criminals you are "preparing to defend" yourself from.

How does two men or two women holding hands have ANY "affect" on you? You think they should be forbidden from doing so? Sounds like some extremist Muslim countries...

The acceptability of such acts degrades the overall expectations of morality and decency in society. I think they should definitely be forbidden from doing so in any public place. What they do in PRIVATE is another story. Yes it does sound very close to some Muslim countries.

Does this "No PDA" policy apply only to gays and lesbians or to all consenting adult relationships? How would this be enforced? What would the punishment be? (Some guy in PA believes the bible told him to stone a gay guy to death.

http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2011/03/20/Elderly_Gay_Man_Stoned_to_Death_in_Pa/

How does the "acceptability of such acts degrade expectations of morality"? Please site some specific examples of how one consenting adult relationship has an affect on another's consenting adult relationship (barring, of course, adultery)?

If your marriage is suffering, it is not the fault of gays and lesbians that hold hands and want to get married.

Is our society really less "moral" than in the past? Was it more moral when women were owned as property and could be beaten at will? Was it really more moral when it was acceptable for a man to RAPE his wife? How moral was it when incest and child abuse was never reported?

Sorry, but two men holding hands or sharing a quick kiss is a lot more moral that that stuff.

 

[Anachronism]

Not all morality is religious in nature.

Correct. In fact real Morality comes from Spirituality rather than any form of organized religion. It's what I call Universal Morality and it is drawn from the values and ideals of the truly successful nations, societies, and spiritual movements over the course of human history. When you look at them it's amazing how many ideals and values they share in common compared to those nations, societies, and movements which have failed (including all matriarchal societies)

And I'm quite confident that whatever the "end" brings, I'll be just fine. See, I've led a very moral life. I've done stuff like serving my country for 20 years, helping the poor and needy, obeying laws, cherishing my children and loving my partner. All good stuff, no?

Good for you. I would thank you for your service to this nation, but the fact that you used the phrase "my partner" rather than either Husband or Wife concerns me just a little bit.

Women don't belong running companies? How about countries?

Women don't belong as the Heads of Households, nevermind running companies or involved in the political arena AT ALL.

Please (and I really do mean, please) tell us what a woman's "proper place" is?

Very simple. The Man is intended to be the Head of the Household. She is intended to be there to support, assist, and help him in that household. She is not intended to be a leader. Not in business. Not in the relationship. Not in the home. She is the assistant.

Now, the thing about "welfare" (and I don't mean the ridiculous corporate kind that allows them to make BILLIONS in profit AND be subsidized by the taxpayer) is that it protects a society. When you have a parent facing a starving child, they will do ANYTHING to feed and protect that child. A helping hand to those in need actually prevents crime.

Maybe they should have made the proper decisions to begin with and not put themselves in the position to need to commit a crime in order to feed themselves, their children, etc... A large percentage of the people on these assistance programs are there as the consequence of CHOICES they made themselves. I'm a big believer in Personal Responsibility. You make the mistake, you pay the price. If that means your kids do as well, then MAYBE they'll learn not to make that same mistake themselves.

With less petty crimes being committed by people that just wanted to feed their families, we actually have the space and money to lock up those violent criminals you are "preparing to defend" yourself from.

With proper imprisonment, punishment, and execution laws in place, many of these people would not be around to breed a new generation of criminals or to re-commit crimes once they were out.

Does this "No PDA" policy apply only to gays and lesbians or to all consenting adult relationships? How would this be enforced? What would the punishment be?

All adult relationships. Sex and PDA's should be a PRIVATE affair between consenting adults. It is NOT something that the general public should have to witness, regardless of whether it's a hetero or homo couple.

It would be enforced like any other law. Citizens could report the crime or it would be seen by LEO's and taken care of. Initial incidents of lower levels would be a finable offense... say $500 for the first offense (each party) and $1000 for the second. Then it would move to imprisonment. Higher level versions (sexual acts, kissing, etc...) would immediately go to the imprisonment stage.

How does the "acceptability of such acts degrade expectations of morality"?

Mom and Dad are walking through the park with their three kids. They come across these people involved in these PDA's. Mom and Dad have been teaching these children that PDA's are not acceptable. The fact that these kids have now witnessed this unacceptable act workds to undermine that teaching.

If your marriage is suffering, it is not the fault of gays and lesbians that hold hands and want to get married.

I'm not married and likely never will be. They stopped making the model of woman that I'd be looking to marry in about 1930, so I'm pretty much out of luck since I was born in 1974.

Is our society really less "moral" than in the past? Was it more moral when women were owned as property and could be beaten at will? Was it really more moral when it was acceptable for a man to RAPE his wife? How moral was it when incest and child abuse was never reported?

Immorality will always occur, just like crime. It can never be removed entirely. However, when those immoral and illegal acts are now CONDONED I would suggest that we have become significantly less moral than we were in the past.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

What in the world is Bass talking about? Bush was a conservative?? Huh? In what sense??

Bass is obviously a methhead or something. No f'n clue.

 

[kaz]

What in the world is Bass talking about? Bush was a conservative?? Huh? In what sense??

Bass is obviously a methhead or something. No f'n clue.

Liberals don't like W. Liberals don't like Conservatives. Therefore, W is a Conservative. Any questions?

 

[Bass v 2.0]

What in the world is Bass talking about? Bush was a conservative?? Huh? In what sense??

Bass is obviously a methhead or something. No f'n clue.

Monkey, I never called Bush a conservative, in fact, I was arguing that these Republitards who call themselves conservative are not conservative.

 

[Seawytch]

Correct. In fact real Morality comes from Spirituality rather than any form of organized religion. It's what I call Universal Morality and it is drawn from the values and ideals of the truly successful nations, societies, and spiritual movements over the course of human history. When you look at them it's amazing how many ideals and values they share in common compared to those nations, societies, and movements which have failed (including all matriarchal societies)

So the matriarchal societies failed because of a lack of morals on their part? Patriarchal revisionism at its best
I wouldn’t say that “all” matriarchal societies have failed either. It works great for elephants
While not matriarchal, per say, Judaism is certainly matrilineal.

And I'm quite confident that whatever the "end" brings, I'll be just fine. See, I've led a very moral life. I've done stuff like serving my country for 20 years, helping the poor and needy, obeying laws, cherishing my children and loving my partner. All good stuff, no?

Good for you. I would thank you for your service to this nation, but the fact that you used the phrase "my partner" rather than either Husband or Wife concerns me just a little bit.

Your appreciation for someone’s service is dependent upon the consenting adult they have relations or relationships with?

Women don't belong as the Heads of Households, nevermind running companies or involved in the political arena AT ALL.

Very simple. The Man is intended to be the Head of the Household. She is intended to be there to support, assist, and help him in that household. She is not intended to be a leader. Not in business. Not in the relationship. Not in the home. She is the assistant.

Shocking you can’t find a woman to marry, just shocking I tell you.

Maybe they should have made the proper decisions to begin with and not put themselves in the position to need to commit a crime in order to feed themselves, their children, etc... A large percentage of the people on these assistance programs are there as the consequence of CHOICES they made themselves. I'm a big believer in Personal Responsibility. You make the mistake, you pay the price. If that means your kids do as well, then MAYBE they'll learn not to make that same mistake themselves.

You’ve never heard the phrase “there but for the grace of god go I”? Millions and millions of Americans are only one paycheck away from homelessness and destitution. Not even, necessarily, from decisions they made. They didn’t choose to get cancer and go into medical bankruptcy (Medical bills account for 60% of all bankruptcies and 65% of them had insurance at the time of their illness or accident). They didn’t choose to get laid off because jobs are shipping overseas at an alarming rate. The tax we pay is insurance against bad times and to prevent crime. Welfare certainly isn’t meant to be a hand out, but a hand up. More regulation of the system is definitely required, but not elimination.

With proper imprisonment, punishment, and execution laws in place, many of these people would not be around to breed a new generation of criminals or to re-commit crimes once they were out.

There really are zero shades of grey with you are there? Incarceration over rehabilitation. If your ideal version of a woman comes out of the 30s, I’m guessing your ideal version of a society comes right out of a Dicken’s novel…

All adult relationships. Sex and PDA's should be a PRIVATE affair between consenting adults. It is NOT something that the general public should have to witness, regardless of whether it's a hetero or homo couple.

Sex, definitely but PDAs in moderation. My heart is warmed seeing a loving couple holding hands or giving a chaste kiss in farewell. I am gladdened to see friends embrace in greeting. This kind of stuff, though…no way!

It would be enforced like any other law. Citizens could report the crime or it would be seen by LEO's and taken care of. Initial incidents of lower levels would be a finable offense... say $500 for the first offense (each party) and $1000 for the second. Then it would move to imprisonment. Higher level versions (sexual acts, kissing, etc...) would immediately go to the imprisonment stage.

Wow...A $500 fine for holding hands and imprisonment for kissing? You think sex is dirty don’t you?

Mom and Dad are walking through the park with their three kids. They come across these people involved in these PDA's. Mom and Dad have been teaching these children that PDA's are not acceptable. The fact that these kids have now witnessed this unacceptable act workds to undermine that teaching.

Which people? What PDA? Do you think your morals and teachings are not adequate and all of society must adhere to YOUR personal moral values so that it won’t undermine your teachings? That’s ridiculous (and decidedly not conservative by any stretch of the imagination.)

If your marriage is suffering, it is not the fault of gays and lesbians that hold hands and want to get married.

I'm not married and likely never will be.

Surprise, surprise, surprise

Is our society really less "moral" than in the past? Was it more moral when women were owned as property and could be beaten at will? Was it really more moral when it was acceptable for a man to RAPE his wife? How moral was it when incest and child abuse was never reported?

Immorality will always occur, just like crime. It can never be removed entirely. However, when those immoral and illegal acts are now CONDONED I would suggest that we have become significantly less moral than we were in the past.

You mean like interracial marriage? Seems to me that there are more immoral acts that are now prohibited than there are immoral acts that are now condoned.

 

[Anachronism]

So the matriarchal societies failed because of a lack of morals on their part? Patriarchal revisionism at its best
I wouldn’t say that “all” matriarchal societies have failed either. It works great for elephants
While not matriarchal, per say, Judaism is certainly matrilineal.

There has not been a significant HUMAN matriarchal society on this planet in a millenium. That should tell you something. It's not an effective system of governance for human beings. Mostly because it is totally contrary to the physical and mental strengths of men and women.

Your appreciation for someone’s service is dependent upon the consenting adult they have relations or relationships with?

My appreciation for someone's EXISTANCE is often dependent on their relationships and who they have them with.

Shocking you can’t find a woman to marry, just shocking I tell you.

Sarcasm doesn't look good on you. It's also a very quick way to end up on the Ignore List.

You’ve never heard the phrase “there but for the grace of god go I”? Millions and millions of Americans are only one paycheck away from homelessness and destitution. Not even, necessarily, from decisions they made. They didn’t choose to get cancer and go into medical bankruptcy (Medical bills account for 60% of all bankruptcies and 65% of them had insurance at the time of their illness or accident). They didn’t choose to get laid off because jobs are shipping overseas at an alarming rate. The tax we pay is insurance against bad times and to prevent crime. Welfare certainly isn’t meant to be a hand out, but a hand up. More regulation of the system is definitely required, but not elimination.

I am a believer in FATE. The idea that the majority of our lives are carved in stone (well, thread actually) at the moment of our birth and cannot be changed by any Man or God.

However, a very large percentage of those on assistance are there becaus of choices that THEY made (drop out of school, become a criminal, have a child out of wedlock, etc....) I see no need to support such people who are simply dealing with the consequences of their own bad choices.

For the others, I believe that PRIVATE, NON-GOVERNMENTAL charities are the appropriate place to turn for assistance if one's family and friends cannot lend sufficient assistance.

There really are zero shades of grey with you are there? Incarceration over rehabilitation. If your ideal version of a woman comes out of the 30s, I’m guessing your ideal version of a society comes right out of a Dicken’s novel…

None. Zero grey in this world whatsoever. My ideal version of a society actually takes bits and pieces from times as far back as the 12th Century and as recent as the late 19th Century.

Sex, definitely but PDAs in moderation. My heart is warmed seeing a loving couple holding hands or giving a chaste kiss in farewell. I am gladdened to see friends embrace in greeting. This kind of stuff, though…no way!

My heart is not warmed by any such thing. There is very little in the world that warms my heart in any way, nor will there likely ever be.

Wow...A $500 fine for holding hands and imprisonment for kissing? You think sex is dirty don’t you?

I believe that sex has its appropriate time and place. Neither of which are in the sight of other people.

Which people? What PDA? Do you think your morals and teachings are not adequate and all of society must adhere to YOUR personal moral values so that it won’t undermine your teachings? That’s ridiculous (and decidedly not conservative by any stretch of the imagination.)

I think it's been adequately proven in the last century that without strict enforcement of a moral code of conduct the average American (of both genders) becomes little more than a walking, talking ball of immorality and filth.

You mean like interracial marriage? Seems to me that there are more immoral acts that are now prohibited than there are immoral acts that are now condoned.

I ahve no issue with interracial marriage. It's not what I would choose, but if that's what floats your boat, good for you.

 

[Avatar4321]

Aw, jeez.....another Teabaggin' History Major​

If you disagree, I'd love to hear who you would suggest HAS BEEN a True Conservative POTUS since the end of Jackson's Administration.

Oh, and I'm not a Tea Party supporter. They're a bunch of gutless, worthless, semi-Conservatives themselves.

Calvin Coolidge.

 

[Avatar4321]

Bass, Conservatism is not dead as long as I draw breath.

 

[Anachronism]

Calvin Coolidge.

Very close, I will agree, but not quite as emphatic as I would like to see a True Conservative be about things like Isolationism and moral reforms.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

Bass, Conservatism is not dead as long as I draw breath.

You are not a conservative, nor do you support true conservatism.

 

[Seawytch]

So the matriarchal societies failed because of a lack of morals on their part? Patriarchal revisionism at its best
I wouldn’t say that “all” matriarchal societies have failed either. It works great for elephants
While not matriarchal, per say, Judaism is certainly matrilineal.

There has not been a significant HUMAN matriarchal society on this planet in a millenium. That should tell you something. It's not an effective system of governance for human beings. Mostly because it is totally contrary to the physical and mental strengths of men and women.

The mental strength? ROFLMAO…so, not only should women only be in the home, subservient to men, but they aren’t as smart either? Are you for real?

What does physical strength have to do with governance of a country?

Your appreciation for someone’s service is dependent upon the consenting adult they have relations or relationships with?

My appreciation for someone's EXISTANCE is often dependent on their relationships and who they have them with.

Well, that's awfully vague. Who doesn't deserve to exist, in your world, based on their relationships? Got a list?

Sarcasm doesn't look good on you. It's also a very quick way to end up on the Ignore List.

Sarcasm looks good on just about anyone...it's fun too. OMG...the threat of an "ignore". I better straighten up (pardon the pun...and the sarcasm again)

I am a believer in FATE. The idea that the majority of our lives are carved in stone (well, thread actually) at the moment of our birth and cannot be changed by any Man or God.

However, a very large percentage of those on assistance are there becaus of choices that THEY made (drop out of school, become a criminal, have a child out of wedlock, etc....) I see no need to support such people who are simply dealing with the consequences of their own bad choices.

For the others, I believe that PRIVATE, NON-GOVERNMENTAL charities are the appropriate place to turn for assistance if one's family and friends cannot lend sufficient assistance.

Might I suggest reading In the Shadow of the Poor House , by Michael B. Katz. It covers the plight of the poor through American history and how charity fails miserably.

“The availability of work for every able-bodied person who really wants a job is one of the enduring myths of American history. In fact, work was no more universally available in the early nineteenth century than it is today, as unskilled and semi-skilled workers overstocked urban labor markets.” -Michael B. Katz

None. Zero grey in this world whatsoever. My ideal version of a society actually takes bits and pieces from times as far back as the 12th Century and as recent as the late 19th Century.

And amazingly, here you are taking advantage of the joys of the 21st century...and blogging about bringing back the poor houses and debtors prisons. I'm sorry, that was sarcastic again.

My heart is not warmed by any such thing. There is very little in the world that warms my heart in any way, nor will there likely ever be.

Waiting for your "eternal reward" are you? Poor dear....

I believe that sex has its appropriate time and place. Neither of which are in the sight of other people.

Other than for porn or by the mutual agreement of all parties involved (orgies you know), I agree.

Which people? What PDA? Do you think your morals and teachings are not adequate and all of society must adhere to YOUR personal moral values so that it won’t undermine your teachings? That’s ridiculous (and decidedly not conservative by any stretch of the imagination.)

I think it's been adequately proven in the last century that without strict enforcement of a moral code of conduct the average American (of both genders) becomes little more than a walking, talking ball of immorality and filth.

No, you want society to follow YOUR personal moral code. That seems kinda "nanny" to me. Not very conservative in the least...

You mean like interracial marriage? Seems to me that there are more immoral acts that are now prohibited than there are immoral acts that are now condoned.

I ahve no issue with interracial marriage. It's not what I would choose, but if that's what floats your boat, good for you.

You missed the point. Interracial marriage was considered an immoral act and now it is "condoned". Things like this, in my opinion, makes us a MORE moral society and not a LESS moral society. Equal rights for women and minorities makes us MORE moral than sex outside of wedlock or same sex relationships makes us a LESS moral one.

 

[Anachronism]

Sarcasm looks good on just about anyone...it's fun too. OMG...the threat of an "ignore". I better straighten up (pardon the pun...and the sarcasm again)

Obviously we have nothing to discuss. I don't see that either of us has any great need to waste our time on each other. I definitely don't. Welcome to the Ignore List.

 

[driveby]

Why True Conservative Feel Betrayed By President Bush



These Republitards and rightwingers calling themselves conservatives are not the real deal conservatives, just extremist loonies who appeal to lowest common denominatorof the ignorant.

Eat a dick, Jake Starkey wanna be ......

 

[Avatar4321]

Bass, Conservatism is not dead as long as I draw breath.

You are not a conservative, nor do you support true conservatism.

Your accusations really don't bother me. Nor does it change the fact that conservatism won't be dead as long as I draw breath.

 

[The T]

Bass, Conservatism is not dead as long as I draw breath.

You are not a conservative, nor do you support true conservatism.

Your accusations really don't bother me. Nor does it change the fact that conservatism won't be dead as long as I draw breath.

Bass is pissed that he is ensconced in the 20% that think they know it all and have their asses handed to them daily. He wouldn't know Conservatism if it bit him in the ass...but then it does, almost daily...so see?

He doesn't know.

 

[Seawytch]

Sarcasm looks good on just about anyone...it's fun too. OMG...the threat of an "ignore". I better straighten up (pardon the pun...and the sarcasm again)

Obviously we have nothing to discuss. I don't see that either of us has any great need to waste our time on each other. I definitely don't. Welcome to the Ignore List.

Oh the heartbreak! How will I EVER survive? Oops, sarcasm again. Damn I hate when that happens.

 

[nraforlife]

Ah...the "social" conservative. And what does that all entail exactly?

That entails: Traditional Morals and Values, Gender Roles, the acceptance of Right and Wrong as immovable and unchanging Ideals with no "grey areas", and the ideal that what an individual SHOULD do/say/believe/etc... is vastly more important than what they CAN or WANT to do/say/believe/etc....

Good luck with all of that. Sorry, but that sort of "conservatism" truly is dead. People have realized that we can be moral and know the difference between right and wrong and still value all the shades of grey.

Nah people are simply butt ignorant and terminally self-absorbed for the last two generations. Right and Wrong ........Good & Evil have not changed as will become apparently as these people totally destroy themselves and disappear without seed.