The Daily Freakout: Solar Energy

[The T]

TWO BILLION for solar energy!

Proof that Obama hates America: he wants to create jobs: COMMUNISM!

Proof that Obama hates America: he wants to focus on alternative energy and lessen our dependence on oil: THE OIL SPILL IS AN INSIDE JOB!

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Lofty admirable goals? Maybe? But it ain't gonna happen overnight darling so it is a really stupid thing to do to put oil and coal outta business.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydqg7ThZB04&feature=player_embedded"]Change power behavior[/ame] <Obama During the campaign in 2008

 

[Big Fitz]

How do solar panels offset oil usage? I'm just wondering... how much oil is needed to create solar panels? From powering their manufacture to the actual plastics and carbon they use. Are we just transferring it's form of use to another arena?

I read somewhere on Nanosolar that total power from creating a panel, installing it into the grid, decommission it at end of life & recycling it would be created by each panel within months. I do not know if that is true or any other facts.

With an EROI of less than 2 to 1 for solar and a 10 to 1 for petroleum, I think it's still a raw deal.

But I stand by my point that solar power is great for supplemental electrical power for residential and light commercial only. In many regards, home/building mounted units could go long ways to decreasing the need for natural gas peaking plants while cutting personal energy bills if not profiting the home/business owner the same way renting space for cellphone towers does. Be nice to get half your rent/mortgage paid on a small house by solar panel oversupply.

To a degree you could say the same about SMALL windmills... but less so and they still have problems as well.

But the same way you don't use tankless waterheaters for multiple unit properties or business, you don't do large scale solar. The energy is just worth the expense.

 

[KissMy]

The price tag to extend unemployment benefits again for an eighth time since Obama took office is $40 billion. I am so glad the republicans blocked this. I would take at least half of that money & put it towards wind, solar & V2G automobiles. That would be 10 times more than Obama proposed.

His measly $2 billion is a drop in the bucket for renewable energy. Obama spent more than that to help Petro-Bross drill for oil in Brazil.

Obama is not as green as his rhetoric or people believe him to be. Bush was greener.

 

[Meister]

TWO BILLION for solar energy!

Proof that Obama hates America: he wants to create jobs: COMMUNISM!

Proof that Obama hates America: he wants to focus on alternative energy and lessen our dependence on oil: THE OIL SPILL IS AN INSIDE JOB!

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Two Billion? I wonder which countries will make the bids?
I hope it turns out better than the "cash for clunkers" program. Toyota made out big time in that expensive debacle. just sayin'....

 

[KissMy]

How do solar panels offset oil usage? I'm just wondering... how much oil is needed to create solar panels? From powering their manufacture to the actual plastics and carbon they use. Are we just transferring it's form of use to another arena?

I read somewhere on Nanosolar that total power from creating a panel, installing it into the grid, decommission it at end of life & recycling it would be created by each panel within months. I do not know if that is true or any other facts.

With an EROI of less than 2 to 1 for solar and a 10 to 1 for petroleum, I think it's still a raw deal.

But I stand by my point that solar power is great for supplemental electrical power for residential and light commercial only. In many regards, home/building mounted units could go long ways to decreasing the need for natural gas peaking plants while cutting personal energy bills if not profiting the home/business owner the same way renting space for cellphone towers does. Be nice to get half your rent/mortgage paid on a small house by solar panel oversupply.

To a degree you could say the same about SMALL windmills... but less so and they still have problems as well.

But the same way you don't use tankless waterheaters for multiple unit properties or business, you don't do large scale solar. The energy is just worth the expense.

I got that wrong. The total power from creating a Nanosolar panel, installing it into the grid, decommission it at end of life & recycling it would be created by each panel within a few years. The average panel last 25 years so it seems the EROEI ratio should be more than 10:1 over 25 years. It would be negative the first 2 years. I don't have a problem with that. I mean what is the EROEI ratio for paying unemployment benifits & welfare?

Nanosolar.com

The energy payback time of our cells is measured in months, not years as with conventional solar technology.

Old oil wells were much higher but the EROEI for new coal, oil & gas fields are the same as wind & solar.

 

[skookerasbil]

Green energy.................LAUGH............MY..............BALLS............OFF

There are actually millions of Americans who think that we can flip on a switch and make our energy green overnight with the likes of wind and solar power, and there are a bunch of these k00ks on this forum posting up gayness all the time.

Any feasible green energy economy is at least two decades away and more probably 50 years away............but only..........ONLY if the government gets out of the way and lets the private sector have at it. Otherwise................we're looking at 100 years.

The k00ks who advocate going this green road now are so beyond gone its not real. Imagine a guy showing up at the Daytona 500 one day and saying to NASCAR officials: "You know what..........I want to run this Edsel against your Hendricks cars and we'll see how we do!!!". THATS the intellectual equivelent to the true believers like Editiec, Taz my ass bro and Old Rocks et. al............all mental cases who somehow missed the connect the dots lessons in grade school.

 

[skookerasbil]

 

[skookerasbil]

Or Shaman who toots around in one of these as his daily driver. Well, his isnt pink but when you drive around in one this gay cars, it might as well be.....................

 

[ba1614]

How do solar panels offset oil usage? I'm just wondering... how much oil is needed to create solar panels? From powering their manufacture to the actual plastics and carbon they use. Are we just transferring it's form of use to another arena?

I read somewhere on Nanosolar that total power from creating a panel, installing it into the grid, decommission it at end of life & recycling it would be created by each panel within months. I do not know if that is true or any other facts.

With an EROI of less than 2 to 1 for solar and a 10 to 1 for petroleum, I think it's still a raw deal.

But I stand by my point that solar power is great for supplemental electrical power for residential and light commercial only. In many regards, home/building mounted units could go long ways to decreasing the need for natural gas peaking plants while cutting personal energy bills if not profiting the home/business owner the same way renting space for cellphone towers does. Be nice to get half your rent/mortgage paid on a small house by solar panel oversupply.

To a degree you could say the same about SMALL windmills... but less so and they still have problems as well.

But the same way you don't use tankless waterheaters for multiple unit properties or business, you don't do large scale solar. The energy is just worth the expense.

I agree, and think it's a great idea for the individual to try and save themselves as much as possible. Personally, I think you're foolish if you don't, given the current, and future prices that will "necessarily skyrocket".
I've made the decision to try and get myself off the grid as much as possible, and am currently doing a lot of research into current solar alternatives. I've been playing with a small setup in the garage and my RV to teach myself about it. The costs to get setup are a lot less today than they were even 2yrs ago. I need 5yrs and I'll be able to disconnect from the power grid, if they'll let me.

 

[The T]

I read somewhere on Nanosolar that total power from creating a panel, installing it into the grid, decommission it at end of life & recycling it would be created by each panel within months. I do not know if that is true or any other facts.

With an EROI of less than 2 to 1 for solar and a 10 to 1 for petroleum, I think it's still a raw deal.

But I stand by my point that solar power is great for supplemental electrical power for residential and light commercial only. In many regards, home/building mounted units could go long ways to decreasing the need for natural gas peaking plants while cutting personal energy bills if not profiting the home/business owner the same way renting space for cellphone towers does. Be nice to get half your rent/mortgage paid on a small house by solar panel oversupply.

To a degree you could say the same about SMALL windmills... but less so and they still have problems as well.

But the same way you don't use tankless waterheaters for multiple unit properties or business, you don't do large scale solar. The energy is just worth the expense.

I agree, and think it's a great idea for the individual to try and save themselves as much as possible. Personally, I think you're foolish if you don't, given the current, and future prices that will "necessarily skyrocket".
I've made the decision to try and get myself off the grid as much as possible, and am currently doing a lot of research into current solar alternatives. I've been playing with a small setup in the garage and my RV to teach myself about it. The costs to get setup are a lot less today than they were even 2yrs ago. I need 5yrs and I'll be able to disconnect from the power grid, if they'll let me.

If you're self-sufficient? Why on Earth would they not "let you"?

 

[Big Fitz]

Old oil wells were much higher but the EROEI for new coal, oil & gas fields are the same as wind & solar.

I have a very hard time believing that since they are so situational. If up and running 24/7/365, maybe. but they operate less than 40% of the time, so... really is this an accurate statement or just computer models playing games again. I also find it ludicrous to believe that the EROEI on Nuclear is so low in comparison. I do think that they got Biofuels close to right though. They have actually negative EROEI though.

 

[Big Fitz]

With an EROI of less than 2 to 1 for solar and a 10 to 1 for petroleum, I think it's still a raw deal.

But I stand by my point that solar power is great for supplemental electrical power for residential and light commercial only. In many regards, home/building mounted units could go long ways to decreasing the need for natural gas peaking plants while cutting personal energy bills if not profiting the home/business owner the same way renting space for cellphone towers does. Be nice to get half your rent/mortgage paid on a small house by solar panel oversupply.

To a degree you could say the same about SMALL windmills... but less so and they still have problems as well.

But the same way you don't use tankless waterheaters for multiple unit properties or business, you don't do large scale solar. The energy is just worth the expense.

I agree, and think it's a great idea for the individual to try and save themselves as much as possible. Personally, I think you're foolish if you don't, given the current, and future prices that will "necessarily skyrocket".
I've made the decision to try and get myself off the grid as much as possible, and am currently doing a lot of research into current solar alternatives. I've been playing with a small setup in the garage and my RV to teach myself about it. The costs to get setup are a lot less today than they were even 2yrs ago. I need 5yrs and I'll be able to disconnect from the power grid, if they'll let me.

If you're self-sufficient? Why on Earth would they not "let you"?

There are many towns that flat out won't let you put up a windmill on your property or solar panels because it wrecks property value and you need an easement for the zoning board. This often costs thousands to get if the town council will let you. Even the county wants to dip their beak in this little cash pot. Then of course, one neighbor can sue and end the dream even after the expense is in place. Why? Cause they want some too, or they don't like what your generation will do to the value of his property or he hates your guts. All sorts of problems that can increase the cost of putting one in place by five figures easy.

Then there's the power company. They prefer when they GET checks from you, not paying you checks, plus you have to pay for the added generation monitoring equipment usually out of your own pocket which can also be expensive as hell.

These groups SAY they want green energy... as long as they aren't deprived of money, or they get something in return, or can't see it. NIMBY and greed suck and are quite prevalent on all sides of this debate.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Sure,give away more $Billions in Tax Payer cash. Why not? It's not his money right? The problem with Socialism is that it only begets more Socialism and so and so on. It's actually very sad when you think about it. These Socialists/Progressives have completely sunk so many future generations.

 

[The T]

I agree, and think it's a great idea for the individual to try and save themselves as much as possible. Personally, I think you're foolish if you don't, given the current, and future prices that will "necessarily skyrocket".
I've made the decision to try and get myself off the grid as much as possible, and am currently doing a lot of research into current solar alternatives. I've been playing with a small setup in the garage and my RV to teach myself about it. The costs to get setup are a lot less today than they were even 2yrs ago. I need 5yrs and I'll be able to disconnect from the power grid, if they'll let me.

If you're self-sufficient? Why on Earth would they not "let you"?

There are many towns that flat out won't let you put up a windmill on your property or solar panels because it wrecks property value and you need an easement for the zoning board. This often costs thousands to get if the town council will let you. Even the county wants to dip their beak in this little cash pot. Then of course, one neighbor can sue and end the dream even after the expense is in place. Why? Cause they want some too, or they don't like what your generation will do to the value of his property or he hates your guts. All sorts of problems that can increase the cost of putting one in place by five figures easy.

Then there's the power company. They prefer when they GET checks from you, not paying you checks, plus you have to pay for the added generation monitoring equipment usually out of your own pocket which can also be expensive as hell.

These groups SAY they want green energy... as long as they aren't deprived of money, or they get something in return, or can't see it. NIMBY and greed suck and are quite prevalent on all sides of this debate.

Now I understand the premise of selling into the grid...as to the rest of it? Does it not fly into the face of what Obama is trying to sell...or has it got to be ALL AGubmint controlled enterprise?

Silly me...The latter...I answered my own question.

So much for energy independence....

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Beware of the coming Green Nazi takeover. Some very powerful corporations in this nation stand to make $Trillions off this coming Green Nazi takeover. The plans for this have been in the works for many years. Many are owned by Al Gore. The corporation that stands to make the most is GE. It's certainly no coincidence that GE has such a cozy relationship with this White House. GE also owns NBC. So it's also no coincidence that they have become such shallow Boot-Lickers for this White House. Just follow the money. GE is by far the biggest corporate advocate for the Global Warming scam. They will make $Trillions off the coming Global Warming laws. People better wake up to what's really going on. The Socialists/Progressives are out of control. Better start voting them out now. Make 2010 count people.

 

[KissMy]

I just purchased a 5kw windmill with grid tied 10kw battery backup & 5kw solar connection from a guy who could not get the city he lived in to allow him to install it. I paid half the going rate. I am spending my 4th of July weekend installing this so I can celebrate my Independence from the grid. The property I am installing this on has an average annual wind speed of 7m/s or 15 mph & sun power of 4.75KWh/M2/day. I am going to put a meter on the output of the system to see if it is going to be profitable. It will take me a while but I will let you guys know how it works out when I get some real world numbers. This may not be practical for most people due to ordinance, space & location. I am doing this DIY but I think average installation cost will be very expensive.

 

[Big Fitz]

I just purchased a 5kw windmill with grid tied 10kw battery backup & 5kw solar connection from a guy who could not get the city he lived in to allow him to install it. I paid half the going rate. I am spending my 4th of July weekend installing this so I can celebrate my Independence from the grid. The property I am installing this on has an average annual wind speed of 7m/s or 15 mph & 4.75KWh/M2/day. I am going to put a meter on the output of the system to see if it is going to be profitable. It will take me a while but I will let you guys know how it works out when I get some real world numbers.

Awesome. Good for you, but not so good for the other side. Thanks for illustrating the problems with the current system.

 

[ba1614]

With an EROI of less than 2 to 1 for solar and a 10 to 1 for petroleum, I think it's still a raw deal.

But I stand by my point that solar power is great for supplemental electrical power for residential and light commercial only. In many regards, home/building mounted units could go long ways to decreasing the need for natural gas peaking plants while cutting personal energy bills if not profiting the home/business owner the same way renting space for cellphone towers does. Be nice to get half your rent/mortgage paid on a small house by solar panel oversupply.

To a degree you could say the same about SMALL windmills... but less so and they still have problems as well.

But the same way you don't use tankless waterheaters for multiple unit properties or business, you don't do large scale solar. The energy is just worth the expense.

I agree, and think it's a great idea for the individual to try and save themselves as much as possible. Personally, I think you're foolish if you don't, given the current, and future prices that will "necessarily skyrocket".
I've made the decision to try and get myself off the grid as much as possible, and am currently doing a lot of research into current solar alternatives. I've been playing with a small setup in the garage and my RV to teach myself about it. The costs to get setup are a lot less today than they were even 2yrs ago. I need 5yrs and I'll be able to disconnect from the power grid, if they'll let me.

If you're self-sufficient? Why on Earth would they not "let you"?

Because the way things are going I could easily see some fuckin' liberal that spent too much time in school making it mandatory because they know better than I and think I may need to fall back on it at some time. Of course there'd be a minimum monthly fee for it.

I hope not, but fuck, I'm seeing a lot of things I never thought I would.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Let me see.

$2,000,000,000.oo to create about 1,600 jobs.



Carry the 4



That is about $1,250,000.oo per job.

 

[Zona]

No matter what he does, he will be criticized by the righty's in here and all over the country. If he somehow made it so there was world peace, those idiots would bitch about it. If he went into a room and came up with a cure for cancer, these idiots would bitch about it.

fucking crazy.