The cost of good government

[Mr.Fitnah]

We could definately get rid of the IRS by instituting a flat tax , rich or poor , everybody pulls their own weight and pays the same percentage . Get rid of corporate taxes , The Endangered Species Act , the National Environmental Policy Act , The National Fish and Wildlife Service , and The National Marine Fisheries Service ..... for starters .

I support the fair tax , the reality is the rich never pay retail .

Many of the rich pay 10 times retail.

Really? Gift bags free clothes and free food? is not retail.
They get priority seating at the finest places just to make a place hot.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I don't care for the fair tax because right out of the box it's a joke . It's called a "fair tax" but the government reserves the power to dangle a carrot in front of the nose of low income people . The fair tax will give monthly rebate checks to people below a certain income level . What's fair about that ?

Everyone gets the rebate.

 

[whaleboat]

The way I heard it , the rebate is graduated based on income . A larger rebate for low wage earners gradually getting smaller as your income goes up .

 

[KittenKoder]

I support the fair tax , the reality is the rich never pay retail .

Many of the rich pay 10 times retail.

Really? Gift bags free clothes and free food? is not retail.
They get priority seating at the finest places just to make a place hot.

Um ... wow ... just ... wow. I found a sewing machine at Goodwill for 8 bucks, still in it's packaging and everything, the actual price paid for it was 100 bucks ... and it's a mail-order one. I just found a DVD-R (lucky day today) for 13 bucks, brand spanking new.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Many of the rich pay 10 times retail.

Really? Gift bags free clothes and free food? is not retail.
They get priority seating at the finest places just to make a place hot.

Um ... wow ... just ... wow. I found a sewing machine at Goodwill for 8 bucks, still in it's packaging and everything, the actual price paid for it was 100 bucks ... and it's a mail-order one. I just found a DVD-R (lucky day today) for 13 bucks, brand spanking new.

I shop second hand sometimes as well I do not consider that paying retail.
Nor do I consider borrowing Harry Winston creations retail.

 

[KittenKoder]

Really? Gift bags free clothes and free food? is not retail.
They get priority seating at the finest places just to make a place hot.

Um ... wow ... just ... wow. I found a sewing machine at Goodwill for 8 bucks, still in it's packaging and everything, the actual price paid for it was 100 bucks ... and it's a mail-order one. I just found a DVD-R (lucky day today) for 13 bucks, brand spanking new.

I shop second hand sometimes as well I do not consider that paying retail.
Nor do I consider borrowing Harry Winston creations retail.

My point was, they pay more than 10 times what I just paid, retail is usually no more than twice what second hand is now (at least locally, 15 bucks for a used pair of jeans is ridiculous). The rich have their second hand stores to, use to sell clothing there for a quick buck for smokes. They charge 50 bucks for a used pair of jeans there. You must not shop around much.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

When Harrison Ford walks into a joint he aint paying for his meal.
His eating there is good for business.
Paris gets free clothes , It is good for the label.

 

[asaratis]

We could definately get rid of the IRS by instituting a flat tax , rich or poor , everybody pulls their own weight and pays the same percentage . Get rid of corporate taxes , The Endangered Species Act , the National Environmental Policy Act , The National Fish and Wildlife Service , and The National Marine Fisheries Service ..... for starters .

I think a flat tax (on income) is less desirable than the Fair Tax (on consumption). Collecting the same percentage of income from all incomes puts a larger burden on those who make the least.

What do you think would be the consequences of getting rid of the things you mentioned? I know that some states Fish and Wildlife Services are paid for almmost entirely by license fees and permits issued to hunters and fishermen and that they do provide some of the regulations necessary to game management. Would you have this disappear at the national level and be maintained at the state level or do you propose to do away with all Fish and Wildlife Departments?

If anything, the IRS needs to be enlarged.

What is this based on?...strictly opinion?...some facts known only to you?

Please explain why you think it should be enlarged? What is the need?

Some of what we pay for.

Sher, Susan Assistant To The President and Chief of Staff to the First Lady 172,200

Frye, Jocelyn C Deputy Assistant to the President and Director of Policy and Projects For the Fist Lady 140,000

Rogers, Desiree G. Special Assistant to the President and White House Social Secretary 113,000

Johnston, Camille Y. Special Assistant to the President and Director of Communications for the First Lady 102,000

Winter, Melissa E. Special Assistant to the President and Deputy Chief Of Staff to the First Lady 102,000

Medina, David S. Deputy Chief Of Staff to the First Lady 90,000

Lelyveld, Catherine M. Director and Press Secretary to the First Lady 84,000

Starkey, Frances M. Director of Scheduling and Advance for the First Lady 75,000

Sanders, Trooper Deputy Director of Policy and Projects for the First Lady 70,000

Burnough, Erinn J. Deputy Director and Deputy Social Secretary 65,000

Reinstein, Joseph B. Deputy Director and Deputy Social Secretary 65,000

Goodman, Jennifer R. Deputy Director of Scheduling and Events Coordinator For The First Lady 62.000

Fitts, Alan O. Deputy Director of Advance and Trip Director for the First Lady 60,000

Lewis, Dana M. Special Assistant and Personal Aide to the First Lady 60,000

Mustaphi, Semonti M. Associate Director and Deputy Press Secretary To The First Lady 52,500

Jarvis, Kristen E. Special Assistant for Scheduling and Traveling Aide To The First Lady 50,000

Lechtenberg, Tyler A. Associate Director of Correspondence For The First Lady 45,000

Tubman, Samantha Deputy Associate Director 45,000

Boswell, Joseph J. Executive Assistant to the Chief Of Staff to the First Lady $40,000

Armbruster, Sally M. Staff Assistant to the Social Secretary 36,000

Bookey, Natalie Staff Assistant $36,000

Jackson, Deilia A. Deputy Associate Director of Correspondence for the First Lady 36,000

http://www.whitehouse.gov/assets/documents/July1Report-Draft12.pdf

And guess what? Laura Bush had those too. As did Barbara Bush. As did Nancy Reagan. And yet, you're just not complaining about it.

We're talking about what we can do to improve the status quo, not what someone else did in the past. I believe I laid blame for government growth equally on the Democrats and Republicans in the OP. There is no need to list the abuses of power by either side. Tell me what you would do to correct this obviously poor use of tax dollars.

 

[whaleboat]

Get rid of the National Fish and Wildlife Service , states already have fish and game departments . We don't need them at the national level , the only thing I would retain from the National Fish and Wildlife Service are the bioligists that study communicable animal diseases , I'd transfer them to the CDC . Besides , the NFWS are a bunch of wacko environmentalists .

 

[asaratis]

Get rid of the National Fish and Wildlife Service , states already have fish and game departments . We don't need them at the national level , the only thing I would retain from the National Fish and Wildlife Service are the bioligists that study communicable animal diseases , I'd transfer them to the CDC . Besides , the NFWS are a bunch of wacko environmentalists .

I don't agree with the generalization. I do agree that duplication of services is wasteful. Would your dissolving of the NFWS be coupled with some federally mandated obligations of state groups to maintain the desirable services and wildlife protections currently being provided by the NFWS...for instance, the protection of bald eagles?

 

[ElmerMudd]

Solutions need to have a connection to the real world.

Flat tax is a solution to complex, unfair tax system?

We need some government regulation of our economy. Wall Street showed us what they do without regulation in the derivative markets, the driving force of our economic melt down.

Every single scandal in Wallstreet was perpetrated by the government agencies, and you want to give these people all the power everywhere else?

Even Alan Greenspan agrees that Wall Street was the major cause of the economic meltdown.
Failing to hedge higly risky derivatives. Focusing on credit swaps that are actually insurance instruments that were classified as investments to avoid regulation were the biggest culprit.

Government can be blamed for lack of regulation and the development od sub prime loans. As I am sure you know the private sector took the sub prime loans and tok them to segments thay were never intended.

Kitten, if you do not know what you are talking about you should keep your mouth shut because you spread lies that some people actually believe.

 

[asaratis]

Solutions need to have a connection to the real world.

Flat tax is a solution to complex, unfair tax system?

We need some government regulation of our economy. Wall Street showed us what they do without regulation in the derivative markets, the driving force of our economic melt down.

Every single scandal in Wallstreet was perpetrated by the government agencies, and you want to give these people all the power everywhere else?

Even Alan Greenspan agrees that Wall Street was the major cause of the economic meltdown.
Failing to hedge higly risky derivatives. Focusing on credit swaps that are actually insurance instruments that were classified as investments to avoid regulation were the biggest culprit.

Government can be blamed for lack of regulation and the development od sub prime loans. As I am sure you know the private sector took the sub prime loans and tok them to segments thay were never intended.

Kitten, if you do not know what you are talking about you should keep your mouth shut because you spread lies that some people actually believe.

Are you proposing a bigger government? I don't see that increasing regulations and control by the government is a cost reducing factor. Neither do I disagree that regulation is necessary, especially where greed and corrupt practices exist.

 

[KittenKoder]

Solutions need to have a connection to the real world.

Flat tax is a solution to complex, unfair tax system?

We need some government regulation of our economy. Wall Street showed us what they do without regulation in the derivative markets, the driving force of our economic melt down.

Every single scandal in Wallstreet was perpetrated by the government agencies, and you want to give these people all the power everywhere else?

Even Alan Greenspan agrees that Wall Street was the major cause of the economic meltdown.
Failing to hedge higly risky derivatives. Focusing on credit swaps that are actually insurance instruments that were classified as investments to avoid regulation were the biggest culprit.

Government can be blamed for lack of regulation and the development od sub prime loans. As I am sure you know the private sector took the sub prime loans and tok them to segments thay were never intended.

Kitten, if you do not know what you are talking about you should keep your mouth shut because you spread lies that some people actually believe.

Um ... yeah. What lack of regulation? They regulate the fuck out of everything, and the government is corrupt to the core now. Anyone who thinks otherwise are morons.

 

[ElmerMudd]

Every single scandal in Wallstreet was perpetrated by the government agencies, and you want to give these people all the power everywhere else?

Even Alan Greenspan agrees that Wall Street was the major cause of the economic meltdown.
Failing to hedge higly risky derivatives. Focusing on credit swaps that are actually insurance instruments that were classified as investments to avoid regulation were the biggest culprit.

Government can be blamed for lack of regulation and the development od sub prime loans. As I am sure you know the private sector took the sub prime loans and tok them to segments thay were never intended.

Kitten, if you do not know what you are talking about you should keep your mouth shut because you spread lies that some people actually believe.

Um ... yeah. What lack of regulation? They regulate the fuck out of everything, and the government is corrupt to the core now. Anyone who thinks otherwise are morons.

You are making a general statement without any specific knowledge of the what you are applying it to, financial markets.
Lack of regulation? Let's start with the SEC and Bernie Madoff. I told you specifically the lack of regulation of derivatives and credit swaps. Those were highly risky investments several investment houses were so heavily invested in they would never have passed a reasonable stress test. The problem was the models of the stress tests applied by the regulators were as flawed as the investments. The models were influenced by the big money in Wall Street.
How about the mortgage market.

Too much regulation is bad in many areas but necessary in others. Wall street has the financial influence to keep the regulators away.

 

[KittenKoder]

Even Alan Greenspan agrees that Wall Street was the major cause of the economic meltdown.
Failing to hedge higly risky derivatives. Focusing on credit swaps that are actually insurance instruments that were classified as investments to avoid regulation were the biggest culprit.

Government can be blamed for lack of regulation and the development od sub prime loans. As I am sure you know the private sector took the sub prime loans and tok them to segments thay were never intended.

Kitten, if you do not know what you are talking about you should keep your mouth shut because you spread lies that some people actually believe.

Um ... yeah. What lack of regulation? They regulate the fuck out of everything, and the government is corrupt to the core now. Anyone who thinks otherwise are morons.

You are making a general statement without any specific knowledge of the what you are applying it to, financial markets.
Lack of regulation? Let's start with the SEC and Bernie Madoff. I told you specifically the lack of regulation of derivatives and credit swaps. Those were highly risky investments several investment houses were so heavily invested in they would never have passed a reasonable stress test. The problem was the models of the stress tests applied by the regulators were as flawed as the investments. The models were influenced by the big money in Wall Street.
How about the mortgage market.

Too much regulation is bad in many areas but necessary in others. Wall street has the financial influence to keep the regulators away.

Those were all regulated ... and still are ... when it happened.

 

[Meister]

It's always funny to see so-called conservatives arguing against market-based solutions.

Are you talking to me?
I don't see how a government created artificial energy derivatives market is market-based or a solution to anything.

You don't see how a market is a market-based solution? The alternative for limiting emissions is just setting hard caps.

Why are you ignoring what he's saying? Look at the bold words...they might be a key element in what he is saying.

 

[ElmerMudd]

Um ... yeah. What lack of regulation? They regulate the fuck out of everything, and the government is corrupt to the core now. Anyone who thinks otherwise are morons.

You are making a general statement without any specific knowledge of the what you are applying it to, financial markets.
Lack of regulation? Let's start with the SEC and Bernie Madoff. I told you specifically the lack of regulation of derivatives and credit swaps. Those were highly risky investments several investment houses were so heavily invested in they would never have passed a reasonable stress test. The problem was the models of the stress tests applied by the regulators were as flawed as the investments. The models were influenced by the big money in Wall Street.
How about the mortgage market.

Too much regulation is bad in many areas but necessary in others. Wall street has the financial influence to keep the regulators away.

Those were all regulated ... and still are ... when it happened.

They were regulated but they were under-regulated as the examples I used pointed out.

Do you know what a derivative, credit swap, stress test, pyramid investment scheme, hedging investments to reduce risk are. Do you even know what a sub prime loan is?

You must understand what you arre talking about.