The Constitution, Congress & Corruption.

Discussion in 'Education' started by Dante, Dec 30, 2009.

  1. Dante
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    Dante On leave Supporting Member

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    I find it sad and disheartening, that what I consider to be far too many citizens of the USA today, assert that the Congress is ''thoroughly corrupt.''

    One particular poster here had a Private Message session with me, where they stated the premise that the Congress is ''thoroughly corrupt.''

    When I protested that I disagreed with that premise, we went on to send and received a series of PMs to each other about corruption and the congress. Here is what I consider an honest portrayal of their point of view (pov) from a partial representation of what they asserted in reply to my probings, and ond our back and forth:

    any grammatical or structural issues with the above are soley the result of my c&p.

    the style is all theirs... :lol:

    a synopsis of my replies and reasoning will follow.

    d.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2009
  2. Dante
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    Dante On leave Supporting Member

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    Before I go any further..

    I believe in a government of laws.

    Like Madison, I believe
    -Gary Wills, James Madison

    I use the quote from Wills' book because at some point in my argument I base my beliefs on positions right out of the mouths and pens of our founding fathers.

    I do not believe the founders to be infallible, but their words and thoughts carry some wieght.

    Madison, in particular interests me, becuase both he and Hamilton, when both were later in government, contradicited themselves as well as each other.

    This in part is why I decided to put this thread in the Education and History section.
     
  3. Dante
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    Dante On leave Supporting Member

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    I think most people confuse lobbyists and donors, and their legitimate roles in the process of legislating and in electoral politics.

    Politicians of all parties make things worse when the lines between party loyalty and core principles get obscured and/or collide.

    Money and the influence it brings into any deliberative process, is the cause of the actual corruption
    Money and it's influence is what most people have an issue with...but many pols campaign against limiting money and the influences it brings, and sadly many people argue this as an ideological point.

    There is the philosophical issue, but philosophy as policy, not tempered by reality, often falls short on delivery.

    Citizens as individuals and as groups and from all walks of life have an interest and I'l say 'a duty' to contribute, vote, and lobby our representatives and petition the government. But money can out shout as well as out buy the attention of a majority of the citizenry.

    Corruption exists. I do not believe any particular party is inherently open to corruption, but there are times when particualr parties are more corrupt when in power.

    I do think a particular ideology or philosophy is more open to corrution Not to say that any one party is superior because of it's ideological bent, but a larger tent breeds principles over loyalty.




    My answer...
    Which brings me around to Madison and....
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2009
  4. Big Black Dog
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    Big Black Dog Gold Member Supporting Member

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    No, I disagree with you, DevNell. Everybody in Congress would say or do anything to get re-elected. They are a bunch of low-lifes. How could anybody with any kind of scrupples accept a bribe as the Senator from Nebraska did? He was against the Health Care Reform bill until they poneyed up some goods for his state. Political whores. That's what they all are. I wouldn't eat lunch with any of them.
     
  5. manifold
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    manifold Diamond Member

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    Everybody's jumping on the circus train.
    Some jump high, some jump off again.
    And the razzmatazz is rolling, women folk unveiled.
    All truths to light, all crosses nailed.
    Aiming high where the eagle circles,
    Where he keeps his tail feathers clean.
    And wonders "Am I still a free bird?
    Or just a part of the machine".
     
  6. manifold
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    manifold Diamond Member

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    They hitch their covered wagons and they roll out west.
    Politics in the pockets of their Sunday best.
    Shaking hands, kissing babies, for all that they're worth.
    They promise you gold, promise heaven on earth.
    Still, that old bald eagle circles,
    It's not the first time that he's seen
    His reflection in the eyes of innocence.
    He's become just another part of the machine,
    Part of the machine.
     
  7. manifold
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    manifold Diamond Member

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    Smart guys aren't running they're home and dry.
    Up in the mountains where the eagle flies.
    They wouldn't take that job offered on a plate.
    They got to fly with the eagle, and he won't wait.
    Looking down on the smoke and the factories
    Till the truth creeps up unseen.
    They see themselves in the faces of their children
    And realize they too are part of the machine.
    Part of the machine.
     
  8. manifold
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    manifold Diamond Member

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    wish I had an eagle like you
    To wake up to.
    He could be my wings to fly
    In a big bird sky, hey
    Let's be part of the machine.
     
  9. Dante
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    Dante On leave Supporting Member

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    Your opinions are neither reasoned, rational and lack any semblance of a critical analysis.
    Politicans are whores in the same sense that wage earners are wage whores.

    political compromise and give and take is not cirruption and for you to say so is silly at best.

    Maybe the school systen you went to droppes Civics as a class prerequiasite and it forever left you at a loss to understand the world around you.

    sadder, is there are others who would cynicaly use your ignorance to persuade you to wage war against your own interests.
     
  10. Immanuel
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    Immanuel Gold Member

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    Okay... so get back to Madison already!

    For the record, I am the person DevNell was speaking to via PM and he politely requested permission to bring this discussion public before doing so.

    And yes, I do believe that special interests have corrupted Congress. I don't blame the congressman per se because I believe that they are human just as we are and the temptation is most likely unbearable.

    Immie
     

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